Have you looked into it at all? or are you just talking blindly?
it's one thing to think the us has no business in iraq (we dont). it's one thing to think we have made a mess of things there (we have). it's one thing to think our motives in iraq and the middle east in general are suspect (they are). it's one thing to say israel has not exactly been saintly in its actions towards its palestinian and arab nrighbors (it hasnt). it's one thing to say israel has given as good as it's gotten over there (it has).
but it's something totally different to act like there is no fundamentalist muslim fringe that is responsible for its own fair share of senseless violence over there. there is. there are plenty of islamic terrorist groups willing to kill to achieve their goals just as readily as the us and israel are. they are not pure innocent victims. they're over there mixing it up as bad as anyone else. there are no right or innocent parties here. just a lot of fucked up and selfish groups using violence to achieve their ends... be it zionism, capitalist imperialism, or religious fascism.
it's one thing to think the us has no business in iraq (we dont). it's one thing to think we have made a mess of things there (we have). it's one thing to think our motives in iraq and the middle east in general are suspect (they are). it's one thing to say israel has not exactly been saintly in its actions towards its palestinian and arab nrighbors (it hasnt). it's one thing to say israel has given as good as it's gotten over there (it has).
but it's something totally different to act like there is no fundamentalist muslim fringe that is responsible for its own fair share of senseless violence over there. there is. there are plenty of islamic terrorist groups willing to kill to achieve their goals just as readily as the us and israel are. they are not pure innocent victims. they're over there mixing it up as bad as anyone else. there are no right or innocent parties here. just a lot of fucked up and selfish groups using violence to achieve their ends... be it zionism, capitalist imperialism, or religious fascism.
it's one thing to think the us has no business in iraq (we dont). it's one thing to think we have made a mess of things there (we have). it's one thing to think our motives in iraq and the middle east in general are suspect (they are). it's one thing to say israel has not exactly been saintly in its actions towards its palestinian and arab nrighbors (it hasnt). it's one thing to say israel has given as good as it's gotten over there (it has).
but it's something totally different to act like there is no fundamentalist muslim fringe that is responsible for its own fair share of senseless violence over there. there is. there are plenty of islamic terrorist groups willing to kill to achieve their goals just as readily as the us and israel are. they are not pure innocent victims. they're over there mixing it up as bad as anyone else. there are no right or innocent parties here. just a lot of fucked up and selfish groups using violence to achieve their ends... be it zionism, capitalist imperialism, or religious fascism.
Of course there are. There are also staged operations going on as well to perpetuate and progress the hatred in a very calculated manner. Do you think these people (Islamists) just woke up one day and decided to hate America without cause?
You don't ever see anything on TV portraying these people as human beings or as patriots fighting for their country's sovereignty do you?
Ever wonder why?
Would you like to tell me why?
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Of course there are. There are also staged operations going on as well to perpetuate and progress the hatred in a very calculated manner. Do you think these people (Islamists) just woke up one day and decided to hate America without cause?
You don't ever see anything on TV portraying these people as human beings or as patriots fighting for their country's sovereignty do you?
Ever wonder why?
Would you like to tell me why?
no, i don't wonder why... but please enlighten me oh brilliant one. im just a poor ignorant brain washed american needing your wisdom imparted upon me. anyway, as long as it doesnt involve watching some 45 minute youtube jackoff in his basement ranting between monkey spanking sessions, ill listen. but i doubt it's going to make an impact on me.
would you like me to tell you why?
becos apparently we're watching different tv channels. i have never gotten the impression american media is as insidious as you make it out to be. i've seen all sorts of portrayals of all sides. i think you're oversimplifying things just a bit in your "all america does is evil and wrong and no americans see muslims as anything other than terrorists." sure, there's a large ignorant contingent that are that way. but they were born raised and bred that way. i dont think people that stupid even watch the news, or if they do it's only fox radio news. it's not like there's some concerted effort to villify all of islam. at least not that i've ever perceived.
RolandTD20K, Do you mind telling the rest of us where you get all of your information? I mean, are you currently undercover in the middle east seeing all of this stuff going down? Or have in your posession documents that you personally have stolen off of a desk at CIA headquarters? Or is all of your conspiracy talk just speculation? I don't doubt that we aren't always getting the complete unfiltered truth, but I also don't think everything we are being told is a lie. Yes, the powers that be can be dishonest, and I usually feel that Bush is a douche, but they aren't as evil and sinister as people sometimes make them out to be. Like the people who claim that the Bush Administration set up 9-11, that's a dispicable thing to say. I was always curious about one thing, and I'm sure others have too. With all of these conspiracy theorists claiming all of these awful things our governments has supposedly done, and saying that they basically lie without end. Why didn't they just plant some WMD's to legitimize the war?
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Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,200
no, i don't wonder why... but please enlighten me oh brilliant one. im just a poor ignorant brain washed american needing your wisdom imparted upon me. anyway, as long as it doesnt involve watching some 45 minute youtube jackoff in his basement ranting between monkey spanking sessions, ill listen. but i doubt it's going to make an impact on me.
would you like me to tell you why?
becos apparently we're watching different tv channels. i have never gotten the impression american media is as insidious as you make it out to be. i've seen all sorts of portrayals of all sides. i think you're oversimplifying things just a bit in your "all america does is evil and wrong and no americans see muslims as anything other than terrorists." sure, there's a large ignorant contingent that are that way. but they were born raised and bred that way. i dont think people that stupid even watch the news, or if they do it's only fox radio news. it's not like there's some concerted effort to villify all of islam. at least not that i've ever perceived.
Only Fox News my ass, the whole American media whether it's print or the boob tube tries to vilify middle Easterners. You must be running your race with blinders cause that's exactly what's happening, no different that what happened to Japanese Americans prior to WWII.
When we hate, we hate and the media makes that happen very well.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
no, i don't wonder why... but please enlighten me oh brilliant one. im just a poor ignorant brain washed american needing your wisdom imparted upon me. anyway, as long as it doesnt involve watching some 45 minute youtube jackoff in his basement ranting between monkey spanking sessions, ill listen. but i doubt it's going to make an impact on me.
would you like me to tell you why?
becos apparently we're watching different tv channels. i have never gotten the impression american media is as insidious as you make it out to be. i've seen all sorts of portrayals of all sides. i think you're oversimplifying things just a bit in your "all america does is evil and wrong and no americans see muslims as anything other than terrorists." sure, there's a large ignorant contingent that are that way. but they were born raised and bred that way. i dont think people that stupid even watch the news, or if they do it's only fox radio news. it's not like there's some concerted effort to villify all of islam. at least not that i've ever perceived.
Are you familiar with Zionism? Do you know what they believe in? Have you read about PNAC and who the authors are? Are you familiar with Mossad and AIPAC and what they believe in and stand for?
You won't see or hear about this on the news. You will however glean it from independent lesser known documentaries and behind the scenes reporters that rarely get their observations published or picked up by any mainstream news sources.
You are missing the obvious though. America (and Israel) have been occupying foreign territory aggressively for years now and firing ammunition into those societies and killing a lot of innocent people. then ask yourself who is really defending/retaliating, and who is occupying?
Certain things you can refuse to agree on others you cannot refute. If you believe it is all about terrorism, then you need to take a harder look.
As goes the saying "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter".
really think about that statement for a few minutes.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
CAIRO, Egypt - Osama bin Laden appeared for the first time in three years in a video Friday released ahead of the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, telling Americans they should convert to Islam if they want the war in Iraq to end.
The 30-minute video was obtained by the SITE Institute, a Washington-based group that monitors terror messages. American officials said the U.S. government had obtained a copy earlier and intelligence agencies were studying the video to determine whether it was authentic.
In the video, which was broadcast to the Arab world by Al-Jazeera television, bin Laden sits as he talks, wearing a white robe and turban and beige cloak seated behind a table while reading an address to the American people from papers in front of him.
What next? Pat Robertson telling us unbelievers to convert to christianity? :rolleyes:
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
You are missing the obvious though. America (and Israel) have been occupying foreign territory aggressively for years now and firing ammunition into those societies and killing a lot of innocent people. then ask yourself who is really defending/retaliating, and who is occupying?
Certain things you can refuse to agree on others you cannot refute. If you believe it is all about terrorism, then you need to take a harder look.
where have i ever said i believe it's all about terrorism or denied that america and israel are aggressors?
where have i ever said i believe it's all about terrorism or denied that america and israel are aggressors?
My mistake....I'm not implying...(perhaps I was) but I do tend to get carried away.
edit: I'll add...there is justification to my perceived madness...
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
Comments
it's one thing to think the us has no business in iraq (we dont). it's one thing to think we have made a mess of things there (we have). it's one thing to think our motives in iraq and the middle east in general are suspect (they are). it's one thing to say israel has not exactly been saintly in its actions towards its palestinian and arab nrighbors (it hasnt). it's one thing to say israel has given as good as it's gotten over there (it has).
but it's something totally different to act like there is no fundamentalist muslim fringe that is responsible for its own fair share of senseless violence over there. there is. there are plenty of islamic terrorist groups willing to kill to achieve their goals just as readily as the us and israel are. they are not pure innocent victims. they're over there mixing it up as bad as anyone else. there are no right or innocent parties here. just a lot of fucked up and selfish groups using violence to achieve their ends... be it zionism, capitalist imperialism, or religious fascism.
Thank you.
BOS-9/28/04,9/29/04,6/28/08,6/30/08, 9/5/16, 9/7/16, 9/2/18
MTL-9/15/05, OTT-9/16/05
PHL-5/27/06,5/28/06,10/30/09,10/31/09
CHI-8/2/07,8/5/07,8/23/09,8/24/09
HTFD-6/27/08
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KC-5/3/2010,STL-5/4/2010
Bridge School-10/23/2010,10/24/2010
PJ20-9/3/2011,9/4/2011
OKC-11/16/13
SEA-12/6/13
TUL-10/8/14
Of course there are. There are also staged operations going on as well to perpetuate and progress the hatred in a very calculated manner. Do you think these people (Islamists) just woke up one day and decided to hate America without cause?
You don't ever see anything on TV portraying these people as human beings or as patriots fighting for their country's sovereignty do you?
Ever wonder why?
Would you like to tell me why?
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
no, i don't wonder why... but please enlighten me oh brilliant one. im just a poor ignorant brain washed american needing your wisdom imparted upon me. anyway, as long as it doesnt involve watching some 45 minute youtube jackoff in his basement ranting between monkey spanking sessions, ill listen. but i doubt it's going to make an impact on me.
would you like me to tell you why?
becos apparently we're watching different tv channels. i have never gotten the impression american media is as insidious as you make it out to be. i've seen all sorts of portrayals of all sides. i think you're oversimplifying things just a bit in your "all america does is evil and wrong and no americans see muslims as anything other than terrorists." sure, there's a large ignorant contingent that are that way. but they were born raised and bred that way. i dont think people that stupid even watch the news, or if they do it's only fox radio news. it's not like there's some concerted effort to villify all of islam. at least not that i've ever perceived.
Only Fox News my ass, the whole American media whether it's print or the boob tube tries to vilify middle Easterners. You must be running your race with blinders cause that's exactly what's happening, no different that what happened to Japanese Americans prior to WWII.
When we hate, we hate and the media makes that happen very well.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
Are you familiar with Zionism? Do you know what they believe in? Have you read about PNAC and who the authors are? Are you familiar with Mossad and AIPAC and what they believe in and stand for?
You won't see or hear about this on the news. You will however glean it from independent lesser known documentaries and behind the scenes reporters that rarely get their observations published or picked up by any mainstream news sources.
You are missing the obvious though. America (and Israel) have been occupying foreign territory aggressively for years now and firing ammunition into those societies and killing a lot of innocent people. then ask yourself who is really defending/retaliating, and who is occupying?
Certain things you can refuse to agree on others you cannot refute. If you believe it is all about terrorism, then you need to take a harder look.
As goes the saying "one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter".
really think about that statement for a few minutes.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
naděje umírá poslední
where have i ever said i believe it's all about terrorism or denied that america and israel are aggressors?
My mistake....I'm not implying...(perhaps I was) but I do tend to get carried away.
edit: I'll add...there is justification to my perceived madness...
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")