Gaza crowds loot strongholds of Fatah

jlew24asu

I must say I am surprised at how much hatred the Palestinian people have for each other, let alone Israel. I am also starting to think the problems come from within. or is this Israel's fault too?

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GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - On Hamas' first day of full rule in Gaza, crowds looted strongholds of the rival
Fatah on Friday — stripping the home of one of the party's strongmen down to the flower pots — and militants sent a man plunging to his death from a rooftop.


But the violence was sporadic and Gaza's streets, deserted in the past week of fighting, were crowded with cars, pedestrians and triumphant fighters with the Islamic militant group.

At Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' captured seaside office in Gaza City, a gunman sat down at the Fatah leader's desk, picked up the phone and pretended to be calling Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice. "Hello, Rice?" the gunman said. "Here we are in Abu Mazen's office. Say hello to Abu Mazen for me." Other gunmen rifled through Abbas' belongings in a bedroom behind the office, lifting up a mattress and searching through drawers.

Hamas' military takeover of Gaza, after five days of battle, formalized the separation between Gaza and the
West Bank, which lie on either side of
Israel. The moderate government Abbas plans to appoint will have no say in Gaza, but stands a stronger chance than the Hamas-Fatah coalition it replaces of restoring foreign aid to the West Bank.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070615/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

blackredyellow

The palestinians have some major deep rooted issues... It seems to me like they have been told for years (generations) that their plight is always someone else's fault... Instead of groups like the PLO doing what they could to improve the lives of the palestinian people, it was much easier to just blame israel - not like israel is innocent in this, but if the palestinians started years ago getting their house in order, we wouldn't be where we are today. Now you have hamas blaming fatah for the people's troubles, when in reality it was hamas getting into power that cut off most of their income.

It reminds me of an exponentially more inflamed situation of the race problems in this country. Groups like the naacp do some admirable things to help lift the black community, but at the same time their blaming and victim mentality does as much to suppress them.

Rushlimbo

jlew24asu wrote:

I must say I am surprised at how much hatred the Palestinian people have for each other, let alone Israel. I am also starting to think the problems come from within. or is this Israel's fault too?

---

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip - On Hamas' first day of full rule in Gaza, crowds looted strongholds of the rival
Fatah on Friday — stripping the home of one of the party's strongmen down to the flower pots — and militants sent a man plunging to his death from a rooftop.


But the violence was sporadic and Gaza's streets, deserted in the past week of fighting, were crowded with cars, pedestrians and triumphant fighters with the Islamic militant group.

At Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas' captured seaside office in Gaza City, a gunman sat down at the Fatah leader's desk, picked up the phone and pretended to be calling Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice. "Hello, Rice?" the gunman said. "Here we are in Abu Mazen's office. Say hello to Abu Mazen for me." Other gunmen rifled through Abbas' belongings in a bedroom behind the office, lifting up a mattress and searching through drawers.

Hamas' military takeover of Gaza, after five days of battle, formalized the separation between Gaza and the
West Bank, which lie on either side of
Israel. The moderate government Abbas plans to appoint will have no say in Gaza, but stands a stronger chance than the Hamas-Fatah coalition it replaces of restoring foreign aid to the West Bank.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070615/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians

This reminds me of the U.S. soldiers behavior in Saddam's palaces. I know, I know... Saddam bad man, Fatah good. This is all the fault of Bush (had to throw that one in here as well).

jlew24asu

Rushlimbo wrote:

This reminds me of the U.S. soldiers behavior in Saddam's palaces. I know, I know... Saddam bad man, Fatah good. This is all the fault of Bush (had to throw that one in here as well).

how can this remind of the US soliders? this is Palestinians against Palestinians.

Rushlimbo

jlew24asu wrote:

how can this remind of the US soliders? this is Palestinians against Palestinians.

The behavior in Abba's office. (I'm not saying the soldiers and thesze palestinians are the same, just the headquarters behavior-- to the victor goes the spoils behavior)

http://www.postercrazy.com/fun/parodies/warposters/soldiersiraq.jpg

http://www.johnnyproctor.com/sqsp2/thronelarge.jpg

http://brimstone.us/6_mar_s_saddam_oswald.JPG

rebornFixer

A very sad situation ... Moderate secularism remains strong in the West Bank, though. In fact, putting all the radical Islamists in one small chunk of land and putting all the moderates on another (behind Israel) doesn't seem like such a bad idea. Gaza could be crushed, and Palestinians actually interested in peace and progressive ideologies could choose to live in an independent state. Of course, its not that simple. There are still many moderates in Gaza.

Incidentally, is it just me, or does the Arab world have basically NO desire to do anything to help this situation? For all their bitching about foreign interference, they seem pretty content to do nothing about this.

rebornFixer

blackredyellow wrote:

The palestinians have some major deep rooted issues... It seems to me like they have been told for years (generations) that their plight is always someone else's fault... Instead of groups like the PLO doing what they could to improve the lives of the palestinian people, it was much easier to just blame israel - not like israel is innocent in this, but if the palestinians started years ago getting their house in order, we wouldn't be where we are today. Now you have hamas blaming fatah for the people's troubles, when in reality it was hamas getting into power that cut off most of their income.

It reminds me of an exponentially more inflamed situation of the race problems in this country. Groups like the naacp do some admirable things to help lift the black community, but at the same time their blaming and victim mentality does as much to suppress them.

Excellent post.

inmytree

reborncareerist wrote:

Incidentally, is it just me, or does the Arab world have basically NO desire to do anything to help this situation? For all their bitching about foreign interference, they seem pretty content to do nothing about this.

it's not just you...I think you're 100% correct...

rebornFixer

inmytree wrote:

it's not just you...I think you're 100% correct...

Its just striking ... For once, and probably only once, the U.S. and allies cannot touch the situation. This would be their chance.
And? ... Nothing.

blackredyellow

reborncareerist wrote:

Incidentally, is it just me, or does the Arab world have basically NO desire to do anything to help this situation? For all their bitching about foreign interference, they seem pretty content to do nothing about this.

I'm sure that it's easier for us to see the big picture because we have access to all the information from every side. I can only imagine what daily life for the average person in the arab world is, but I'm willing to bet that they don't really see anything except propaganda, and everything western that they do see is probably portrayed as going against allah or whatever.

The ones in power have no desire to help the situation because they are just living well off of foreign aid money and have all of the power.

The only solution to this is education... in the terrorism-scared mode we're in, we are cutting down on student visas, but we should be inviting more people from that region to this country to learn and to see what the rest of the world has to offer. There was a great article in Newsweek last week by Fareed Zakaria about when he came to this country as a student from India in 1982 and how reality in the US was so entirely different than the perception at that time. It's these people who will go back home and improve things...

rebornFixer

blackredyellow wrote:

The only solution to this is education... in the terrorism-scared mode we're in, we are cutting down on student visas, but we should be inviting more people from that region to this country to learn and to see what the rest of the world has to offer. There was a great article in Newsweek last week by Fareed Zakaria about when he came to this country as a student from India in 1982 and how reality in the US was so entirely different than the perception at that time. It's these people who will go back home and improve things...

Agreed. The more that positive interactions between people from these countries and people from other parts of the world are encouraged, the weaker extremism gets.

Cosmo

I'm pretty convinced that even if Israel were removed completely from the equation... there would still be violence in the Middle East. The Palesinians are the poster child for the radical Islamic fundamentalist, but if there was never an Israel in the Middle East, the Palestinians would be placed under the oppression of other Arab groups.
...
Also... you wanted Democracy in the Middle East... you got it. What else do you think people in a country where the majority of people hate Israel, America and the West are gonna do if given the chance to participate in a legitimate free election? If you guessed, "Vote for people who hate Israel, America and the West as their leaders"... then, give yourself a Gold Star. The LAST PLACE you want to 'Spread Democracy' to is Pakistan. They already have nuclear weapons and tested delivery systems and are basically one assassination away from becoming the Taliban. Yeah... giving them money and weapons today is a good thing... right? I mean... after all... they ARE the enemy of my enemy today. What harm is it giving them money and weapons?

polaris

reborncareerist wrote:

Incidentally, is it just me, or does the Arab world have basically NO desire to do anything to help this situation? For all their bitching about foreign interference, they seem pretty content to do nothing about this.

much of the arab world are supporters of US policies or at least their leaders are ... and the current situation is what works for the US ...

rebornFixer

Cosmo wrote:

I'm pretty convinced that even if Israel were removed completely from the equation... there would still be violence in the Middle East. The Palesinians are the poster child for the radical Islamic fundamentalist, but if there was never an Israel in the Middle East, the Palestinians would be placed under the oppression of other Arab groups.
...
Also... you wanted Democracy in the Middle East... you got it. What else do you think people in a country where the majority of people hate Israel, America and the West are gonna do if given the chance to participate in a legitimate free election? If you guessed, "Vote for people who hate Israel, America and the West as their leaders"... then, give yourself a Gold Star. The LAST PLACE you want to 'Spread Democracy' to is Pakistan. They already have nuclear weapons and tested delivery systems and are basically one assassination away from becoming the Taliban. Yeah... giving them money and weapons today is a good thing... right? I mean... after all... they ARE the enemy of my enemy today. What harm is it giving them money and weapons?

Uh huh ... I know Palestinians did elect Hamas. However, what Hamas just did was not democratic, it was just more bad behavior from a bunch of terrorist crybaby gun nuts. Fatah was also a legal institution. They didn't like it, so in tried and true Palestinian fashion they decided to kill everyone and riot in the streets with their fruity green flags and funny pictures.

rebornFixer

polaris wrote:

much of the arab world are supporters of US policies or at least their leaders are ... and the current situation is what works for the US ...

Since I do not subscribe to the conspiracy theories about a U.S. military-industrial complex pulling everyone's strings, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me that a radical Palestine is in either the U.S.'s or its Arab allies' best interests. Particularly the latter. Most of those governments are secular and quite capitalist in nature. Why do they want radical Islam to get stronger?

jlew24asu

polaris wrote:

much of the arab world are supporters of US policies or at least their leaders are ... and the current situation is what works for the US ...

you cant be serious

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

Uh huh ... I know Palestinians did elect Hamas. However, what Hamas just did was not democratic, it was just more bad behavior from a bunch of terrorist crybaby gun nuts. Fatah was also a legal institution. They didn't like it, so in tried and true Palestinian fashion they decided to kill everyone and riot in the streets with their fruity green flags and funny pictures.

If only the world really was the cartoon you imagine it to be.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

If only the world really was the cartoon you imagine it to be.

how is any of what he said not true?

Byrnzie

reborncareerist wrote:

in tried and true Palestinian fashion they decided to kill everyone and riot in the streets with their fruity green flags and funny pictures.

jlew24asu wrote:

how is any of what he said not true?

Errrm...nevermind.

jlew24asu

Byrnzie wrote:

Errrm...nevermind.

its a bit over the top and generalized. but is that not what happen?

Byrnzie

blackredyellow wrote:

The palestinians have some major deep rooted issues... It seems to me like they have been told for years (generations) that their plight is always someone else's fault...not like israel is innocent in this, but if the palestinians started years ago getting their house in order, we wouldn't be where we are today.

Fascinating! Truly fascinating!