US lifts sanctions from Abbas-led government

even flow?

mammasan wrote:

I don't know why some of you are giving jlew such a hard time. Even if the Palestinian elections where legit Hamas was an organization that had no interest in peace. Fatah at least is more moderate and has a desire for peace in the region. This is a good think that Abbas was able to create a government free of terrorist influence. Now maybe Fatah and the Israeli government can sit down and start working on a peace agreement. Let Hamas have Gaza, soon enough the Palestinians there will start to see how well the one's in the West Bank have it and will start to denounce Hamas.

Because a few of us can realize that the Jews are used to whip up hatred over in the middle east as the middle east is used to whip up hatred in America. Basic fact that nobody can deny. Pretty sad day when you need to use another human being to get your country to rally around suicide bombings or carpet bombings, eh!

Hope you doing okay B!

Edit: And what Hammas has done in the past week(s) only reminds me of a wild west scene where somebody wants to be top dog and when you have armed factions, we know how it is going to be settled. One would have to take a wild stab that if you are oppressed in your own eyes, it won't take too much convincing that if the said government isn't going to cave into the oppressor, that they are going to win an open election.

jlew24asu

even flow? wrote:

Because a few of us can realize that the Jews are used to whip up hatred over in the middle east as the middle east is used to whip up hatred in America.

this makes no sense whatsoever, eh

even flow? wrote:

Pretty sad day when you need to use another human being to get your country to rally around suicide bombings or carpet bombings, eh!

um, again, you make no sense. is english not your first language? I think you are trying to blame the us and Israel for palastinians resorting to using suicide bombers? eh.

even flow? wrote:

Hope you doing okay B!

eh ?

even flow? wrote:

Edit: And what Hammas has done in the past week(s) only reminds me of a wild west scene where somebody wants to be top dog and when you have armed factions, we know how it is going to be settled. One would have to take a wild stab that if you are oppressed in your own eyes, it won't take too much convincing that if the said government isn't going to cave into the oppressor, that they are going to win an open election.

ok cool. its Israel's fault hamas used force to destroy its opposition.

eh.

Byrnzie

ThumbingMyWay32 wrote:

"The dramatic rout of the US and Israeli-backed Palestinian militias in Gaza"


I can see the euphoria in Byrnie's eyes at the very sight of a statement like that.

Don't forget... I voted for the US-backed deaths... And ONLY the US-backed deaths!

You should try reading more than just the title of the above article. You may learn something.

mammasan

even flow? wrote:

Because a few of us can realize that the Jews are used to whip up hatred over in the middle east as the middle east is used to whip up hatred in America. Basic fact that nobody can deny. Pretty sad day when you need to use another human being to get your country to rally around suicide bombings or carpet bombings, eh!

Hope you doing okay B!

Edit: And what Hammas has done in the past week(s) only reminds me of a wild west scene where somebody wants to be top dog and when you have armed factions, we know how it is going to be settled. One would have to take a wild stab that if you are oppressed in your own eyes, it won't take too much convincing that if the said government isn't going to cave into the oppressor, that they are going to win an open election.

I agree that that the Palestinians have had a shitty hand delt to them, but Hamas was not going to improve their situation by any means. What Israel needs to do know is stop being so fucking stubborn and work with Fatah in the West Bank. If attacks do start occuring in the West Bank because of Hamas or Hamad sympathizers israel needs to help Fatah deal with them instead of just taking matters into their own hands. If they are able to do this the situation for Palestinians in the west Bank will improve dramatically and a lasting peace and an independent Palestine can be achieved there.

Gaza is another story, but hopefully if what I mentioned occurs in the West Bank the people of Gaza may come to realize that Hamas will not achieve those ends but only bring about more death and destruction. As much as Israel has fucked the Palestinians, Hamas has equally fucked them as well by promoting hate and violence and making sure that a peace agreement will never be reached.

It's truly sad because the Palestinians people have be screwed over by Isreal and their own leadership. Fatah was too weak and inept to ever handle Hamas and curb the terrorism threat that they posed. Israel was too fucking hard headeed to realize this and offer Fatah some aid in doing so and would usually take matter into their own hands causing more needless death and the hands of heavy handed military attacks on Palestinians. Hamas never really had the interest of the Palestinian people at heart. they only had their hate filled agenda and used the Palestinian people and their situation to promote that agenda at any cost.

I believe that Abbas and this new government offers the best chance for the Palestinian people, but Israel needs to soften it's stance a bit in order for this to work.

Lastly I'm doing fine, thank you. It was great to finally meet you and Allison, both of them.

even flow?

jlew24asu wrote:

this makes no sense whatsoever, eh
um, again, you make no sense. is english not your first language?

L'anglais est ma première langue?

jlew24asu

even flow? wrote:

L'anglais est ma première langue?

Estaba pensando en algun tipo de demostracion de afecto para la banda... algo asi como una ENORME bandera q diga thank you... o no se, algo, ahora no puedo ni pensar pero si tienen alguna idea este es el lugar para decidir ese tipo de cosas... asi no seguimos con los threads sueltos x ahi...
x cierto, yo soy de cordoba, estamos armando una banda d gente para salir todos en un colectivo... tengo como conseguir buen precio si nos ponemos todos de acuerdo y sacamos los boletos juntos...

mammasan

jlew24asu wrote:

Estaba pensando en algun tipo de demostracion de afecto para la banda... algo asi como una ENORME bandera q diga thank you... o no se, algo, ahora no puedo ni pensar pero si tienen alguna idea este es el lugar para decidir ese tipo de cosas... asi no seguimos con los threads sueltos x ahi...
x cierto, yo soy de cordoba, estamos armando una banda d gente para salir todos en un colectivo... tengo como conseguir buen precio si nos ponemos todos de acuerdo y sacamos los boletos juntos...

Yo no sabia que tu eres de Cordoba.

even flow?

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=107&ItemID=13092

Welcome to 'Palestine'
by Robert Fisk
June 18, 2007

How troublesome the Muslims of the Middle East are. First, we demand that the Palestinians embrace democracy and then they elect the wrong party - Hamas - and then Hamas wins a mini-civil war and presides over the Gaza Strip. And we Westerners still want to negotiate with the discredited President, Mahmoud Abbas. Today "Palestine" - and let's keep those quotation marks in place - has two prime ministers. Welcome to the Middle East.


Who can we negotiate with? To whom do we talk? Well of course, we should have talked to Hamas months ago. But we didn't like the democratically elected government of the Palestinian people. They were supposed to have voted for Fatah and its corrupt leadership. But they voted for Hamas, which declines to recognise Israel or abide by the totally discredited Oslo agreement.



No one asked - on our side - which particular Israel Hamas was supposed to recognise. The Israel of 1948? The Israel of the post-1967 borders? The Israel which builds - and goes on building - vast settlements for Jews and Jews only on Arab land, gobbling up even more of the 22 per cent of "Palestine" still left to negotiate over ?



And so today, we are supposed to talk to our faithful policeman, Mr Abbas, the "moderate" (as the BBC, CNN and Fox News refer to him) Palestinian leader, a man who wrote a 600-page book about Oslo without once mentioning the word "occupation", who always referred to Israeli "redeployment" rather than "withdrawal", a "leader" we can trust because he wears a tie and goes to the White House and says all the right things. The Palestinians didn't vote for Hamas because they wanted an Islamic republic - which is how Hamas's bloody victory will be represented - but because they were tired of the corruption of Mr Abbas's Fatah and the rotten nature of the "Palestinian Authority".



I recall years ago being summoned to the home of a PA official whose walls had just been punctured by an Israeli tank shell. All true. But what struck me were the gold-plated taps in his bathroom. Those taps - or variations of them - were what cost Fatah its election. Palestinians wanted an end to corruption - the cancer of the Arab world - and so they voted for Hamas and thus we, the all-wise, all-good West, decided to sanction them and starve them and bully them for exercising their free vote. Maybe we should offer "Palestine" EU membership if it would be gracious enough to vote for the right people?



All over the Middle East, it is the same. We support Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan, even though he keeps warlords and drug barons in his government (and, by the way, we really are sorry about all those innocent Afghan civilians we are killing in our "war on terror" in the wastelands of Helmand province).



We love Hosni Mubarak of Egypt, whose torturers have not yet finished with the Muslim Brotherhood politicians recently arrested outside Cairo, whose presidency received the warm support of Mrs - yes Mrs - George W Bush - and whose succession will almost certainly pass to his son, Gamal.



We adore Muammar Gaddafi, the crazed dictator of Libya whose werewolves have murdered his opponents abroad, whose plot to murder King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia preceded Tony Blair's recent visit to Tripoli - Colonel Gaddafi, it should be remembered, was called a "statesman" by Jack Straw for abandoning his non- existent nuclear ambitions - and whose "democracy" is perfectly acceptable to us because he is on our side in the "war on terror".



Yes, and we love King Abdullah's unconstitutional monarchy in Jordan, and all the princes and emirs of the Gulf, especially those who are paid such vast bribes by our arms companies that even Scotland Yard has to close down its investigations on the orders of our prime minister - and yes, I can indeed see why he doesn't like The Independent's coverage of what he quaintly calls "the Middle East". If only the Arabs - and the Iranians - would support our kings and shahs and princes whose sons and daughters are educated at Oxford and Harvard, how much easier the "Middle East" would be to control.



For that is what it is about - control - and that is why we hold out, and withdraw, favours from their leaders. Now Gaza belongs to Hamas, what will our own elected leaders do? Will our pontificators in the EU, the UN, Washington and Moscow now have to talk to these wretched, ungrateful people (fear not, for they will not be able to shake hands) or will they have to acknowledge the West Bank version of Palestine (Abbas, the safe pair of hands) while ignoring the elected, militarily successful Hamas in Gaza?



It's easy, of course, to call down a curse on both their houses. But that's what we say about the whole Middle East. If only Bashar al-Assad wasn't President of Syria (heaven knows what the alternative would be) or if the cracked President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad wasn't in control of Iran (even if he doesn't actually know one end of a nuclear missile from the other).



If only Lebanon was a home-grown democracy like our own little back-lawn countries - Belgium, for example, or Luxembourg. But no, those pesky Middle Easterners vote for the wrong people, support the wrong people, love the wrong people, don't behave like us civilised Westerners.



So what will we do? Support the reoccupation of Gaza perhaps? Certainly we will not criticise Israel. And we shall go on giving our affection to the kings and princes and unlovely presidents of the Middle East until the whole place blows up in our faces and then we shall say - as we are already saying of the Iraqis - that they don't deserve our sacrifice and our love.



How do we deal with a coup d'état by an elected government?