you know what pisses me off about the US government

jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
edited August 2007 in A Moving Train
the amount of fucking wasteful spending of taxpayer money. I know I know, everyone is going to reply with the "wasteful" spending on Iraq. defense spending, excluded, we waste BILLIONS.

for example. in wake of the MN bridge collapse, its said that some 70,000 bridges need repair in this country. I was watching a press conference when bush said he would not raise taxes to pay for it but ask congress to reallocate current spending and ask them to reconsider what we spend money on. I agree. (again I am talking about domestic things). for example, 40 million was spent on some stupid project to find out how to increase foot traffic on walking paths in minnesota. the list goes on and on.

what is that report that comes out every year? the pig report or something? can anything really be done about the shameful spending by congress?
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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Europeans....do your governments do the same?

    ps. can we please not turn this into an Iraq debate
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the amount of fucking wasteful spending of taxpayer money. I know I know, everyone is going to reply with the "wasteful" spending on Iraq. defense spending, excluded, we waste BILLIONS.

    for example. in wake of the MN bridge collapse, its said that some 70,000 bridges need repair in this country. I was watching a press conference when bush said he would not raise taxes to pay for it but ask congress to reallocate current spending and ask them to reconsider what we spend money on. I agree. (again I am talking about domestic things). for example, 40 million was spent on some stupid project to find out how to increase foot traffic on walking paths in minnesota. the list goes on and on.

    what is that report that comes out every year? the pig report or something? can anything really be done about the shameful spending by congress?

    Explosives come to mind.

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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the amount of fucking wasteful spending of taxpayer money. I know I know, everyone is going to reply with the "wasteful" spending on Iraq. defense spending, excluded, we waste BILLIONS.

    for example. in wake of the MN bridge collapse, its said that some 70,000 bridges need repair in this country. I was watching a press conference when bush said he would not raise taxes to pay for it but ask congress to reallocate current spending and ask them to reconsider what we spend money on. I agree. (again I am talking about domestic things). for example, 40 million was spent on some stupid project to find out how to increase foot traffic on walking paths in minnesota. the list goes on and on.

    what is that report that comes out every year? the pig report or something? can anything really be done about the shameful spending by congress?

    Agreed. And any solution proposed by government at this point that involves raising taxes is something I will oppose.

    No higher gas tax, no higher cigarette tax, etc. There is no reason to throw more money at an already ridiculously irresponsible government.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Explosives come to mind.

    meaning military spending is too high? I agree
  • Hope&AngerHope&Anger Posts: 260
    The problem is earmarks, my friend, earmarks.

    Earmarking allows members of Congress to allocate funds to their little pet projects in their districts. This process goes on outside of regular budget oversight -- where Congress gives large amounts of money to agencies.

    I read one estimate that said earmarks were responsible for $1.3 billion in 2005.

    Not to mention that this weird-o Department of Homeland Security system has them doling out money to fire departments in central Illinois. Here's my Congressman bragging about bringing $300,000 to fire departments in farming communities.

    http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/il15_johnson/pr_070725c.html

    (I mean, Kansas, Illinois? Don't get me wrong -- I love me my small farming communities. But why are federal tax dollars going to local fire departments in central Illinois, under the guise of homeland security, no less. Wouldn't you feel better if they were spending that money on more metal detectors at the Sears Tower?)

    Why this all happens is pretty complicated, I think. It's about incumbents retaining power by bringing home the bacon. Any candidate who went out and said "I am not going to try to milk the federal government for all its worth for you, my constituents" would not get elected.

    Pigs at the trough.
    "Things will just get better and better even though it
    doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
    idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
    Hope! Hope is the underdog!"

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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Hope&Anger wrote:
    The problem is earmarks, my friend, earmarks.

    Earmarking allows members of Congress to allocate funds to their little pet projects in their districts. This process goes on outside of regular budget oversight -- where Congress gives large amounts of money to agencies.
    I may be wrong but isnt this something bush is trying to eliminate? or at least limit?
    Hope&Anger wrote:
    I read one estimate that said earmarks were responsible for $1.3 billion in 2005.
    in a trillion something budget, this doesnt seem to bad. but still wasteful in most cases.
    Hope&Anger wrote:
    Not to mention that this weird-o Department of Homeland Security system has them doling out money to fire departments in central Illinois. Here's my Congressman bragging about bringing $300,000 to fire departments in farming communities.

    http://www.house.gov/apps/list/speech/il15_johnson/pr_070725c.html

    (I mean, Kansas, Illinois? Don't get me wrong -- I love me my small farming communities. But why are federal tax dollars going to local fire departments in central Illinois, under the guise of homeland security, no less. Wouldn't you feel better if they were spending that money on more metal detectors at the Sears Tower?)
    well im sure that money is going to good use. without the guise of homeland security, could this money get there any other way? dont get me wrong, I see your point and agree money can be better spent.
    Hope&Anger wrote:
    Why this all happens is pretty complicated, I think. It's about incumbents retaining power by bringing home the bacon. Any candidate who went out and said "I am not going to try to milk the federal government for all its worth for you, my constituents" would not get elected.

    Pigs at the trough.

    sadly I dont see how this problem can go away. I do however like how bush very much recognizes how wasteful congress is. but with the amount spent in Iraq, he should look in the mirror first. but its a good sign that I hope remains on the table long after the Iraq shit is behind us.
  • 1970RR1970RR Posts: 281
    jlew24asu wrote:
    the amount of fucking wasteful spending of taxpayer money. I know I know, everyone is going to reply with the "wasteful" spending on Iraq. defense spending, excluded, we waste BILLIONS.

    for example. in wake of the MN bridge collapse, its said that some 70,000 bridges need repair in this country. I was watching a press conference when bush said he would not raise taxes to pay for it but ask congress to reallocate current spending and ask them to reconsider what we spend money on. I agree. (again I am talking about domestic things). for example, 40 million was spent on some stupid project to find out how to increase foot traffic on walking paths in minnesota. the list goes on and on.

    what is that report that comes out every year? the pig report or something? can anything really be done about the shameful spending by congress?
    You are definately correct in pointing out the skewed priorites that exist in government funding.
    Minnesota, and Hennepin County in particular, were more than happy to raise the sales tax against voters wishes to fund a brand-new ballpark for the benefit of millionaire owners.
    I would think that the $450 million would have gone a long way to repairing the bridge.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    reduce incumbants, reduce the fat.

    part of the problem is the federal government is too large and powerful.

    People get much better representation when their politicians are local

    IE, why is there a federal department of education?

    Really, No Child Left behind...really?? Ok States.... GO... we set federal standards..good luck funding it. Why the hell are teachers having to buy supplies for thier classrooms but we pay administration 100K a year?? How the hell does teaching to a test guarentee education? Yes, of course it does not, however, if you're a politician in power, you can use those numbers to show how effective you've been if you can improve a test score or two, who gives a shit whether the kids learned anything worthwhile or not?

    Local government with a small protectorate national government is a hell of a lot more effective than a powerful national government and less powerful state and local authorities.

    The national government should be helping regulate state relations and commerce not having thier hands in all of this other business.


    Next rant....how do we make infrastructure sexy to voters and taxpayers???

    I'll vote for the next canidate who says they want to focus on infrastructure.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    Europeans....do your governments do the same?

    ps. can we please not turn this into an Iraq debate

    Yea ours does the same. I know for a fact that every place i have worked at manages to piss money away to.

    It's annoying as hell.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Pacomc79 wrote:

    Next rant....how do we make infrastructure sexy to voters and taxpayers???

    I'll vote for the next canidate who says they want to focus on infrastructure.

    not only that, but taxpayer waste. I would be all over a candidate that wants to clean that up. but then again, I fear a candidate would just use that as a campaign tool and then we would be right back where we started.

    all this earmark bullshit cant be something local residents/voters are pushing for??

    its just sad how wasteful all that damn money is.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    money is bullshit. let's get to the heart of the matter.

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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    money is bullshit. let's get to the heart of the matter.

    which is?
  • KannKann Posts: 1,146
    Here it may even be worse. Our own irs wastes loads of money due to bad management. And in most of the other government services it's the same.
    Unfortunately these wastes are not wasted for everybody and many find a privilege in this, thus making it harder for people willing to correct this.
    It really is sickening, and to think what could be done with all that money...
    Raising tax should not be necessary, managing them correctly should.
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
    jlew24asu wrote:
    which is?
    Flesh and bones. Existence.

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  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    gue_barium wrote:
    Flesh and bones. Existence.

    you are the oddest fellow in existence. moving on.....
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    Kann wrote:
    Here it may even be worse. Our own irs wastes loads of money due to bad management. And in most of the other government services it's the same.
    Unfortunately these wastes are not wasted for everybody and many find a privilege in this, thus making it harder for people willing to correct this.
    It really is sickening, and to think what could be done with all that money...
    Raising tax should not be necessary, managing them correctly should.

    it kills me. I almost want to devote my life to help end taxpayer waste in Washington. what the hell can I (we) do.
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
  • Jlew, I couldn't agree more. And why aren't watchdog agencies, both gov't and private, more vigilant in reporting spending abuses ?? We had a program in Canada (re; gun registry) that was supposed to cost literally a few million dollars. Well, the fucking thing ballooned to several hundred million. It never really hit the news until it was costing a few hundred million dollars, and \my question is "why ?" How could something escalate so exponentially and still not make the news ? Where were the people who watch these things ? And why didn't they stop this motherfucker in its trackks when it got to 5 million, let alone 500 million ? Its outrageous.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I'll say it again - we need to insist on lower taxes and that the government learns to live within a budget - like I have to with my personal finances.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • YieldInHidingYieldInHiding Posts: 1,841
    1970RR wrote:
    You are definately correct in pointing out the skewed priorites that exist in government funding.
    Minnesota, and Hennepin County in particular, were more than happy to raise the sales tax against voters wishes to fund a brand-new ballpark for the benefit of millionaire owners.
    I would think that the $450 million would have gone a long way to repairing the bridge.

    Don't forget $25 million for the new Guthrie Theater.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • stu geestu gee Posts: 1,174
    So much government money is wasted on pointless things. I saw a big news report on BBC the other day telling me that a study had shown that people who are rich tend to live apart from and in different areas from poor people. I could have saved them a truckload of research and spending if they'd only asked.
    People say im paranoid. Well, they dont say it, but i know that's what they are thinking.
  • Hope&AngerHope&Anger Posts: 260
    jlew24asu wrote:
    all this earmark bullshit cant be something local residents/voters are pushing for??

    People only call it wasteful spending when it happens in *other people's districts.* But they're delighted to have the federal government shell out $300,000 for new fire engines in their *own district* of Middle-of-Nowhere Illinois (to protect them from terrorists).

    (This is not knocking Middle-of-Nowhere Illinois; I love it here. But a couple of elections ago, I did not vote for a local candidate for coroner who said that his main goal was to dun the Department of Homeland Security for money for a new morgue. Sure, we need a morgue, but that's a local responsibility. I thought that Homeland Security money was for fighting terrorism. Just because there's a federal tit doesn't mean we all have to congregate around it. But all my friends made fun of me for it.)

    I'm a Tax and Spend Liberal who favors an expansive federal government and thought that the New Deal was brilliant. But even I recognize that it has to end somewhere -- like fire trucks and morgues in the middle of nowhere.

    But stopping it really requires stopping the powers of incumbency. But it'll be hard for Congress to give up powers that they enjoy.

    By the way, it is true that Bush wants to do away with the earmarks, but they emerged in force during a Republican-dominated Congress. I don't think this is a partisan issue, really. I think this is a struggle between the Executive and Congress. The President -- whoever it is -- wants to control the budget, and members of Congress -- regardless of party -- want to bring home the bacon. Inconsistent goals, to say the least.

    But it also raises questions about what wasteful spending is.
    "Things will just get better and better even though it
    doesn't feel that way right now. That's the hopeful
    idea . . . Hope didn't get much applause . . .
    Hope! Hope is the underdog!"

    -- EV, Live at the Showbox
  • we all agree that big government miss-manages/spends money, right? how then could you vote for a candidate that you know will raise taxes, take as much of the peoples money as they can get, then piss it away?
  • Bu2Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    It would be helpful if we could see the statistics behind all the earmarking bills that are being passed. In other words, how many of them are being pushed for specific lobbyists in the Congressman's or Rep's home state, versus being pushed by the actual PEOPLE in the state?

    If, say, a NY Rep like Congresswoman Nita Lowey or whatever her name is, pushes certain funding for a highway program in her area, she should have to give specific numbers as to how many people in her area really want funding to go to the highways, versus how many contractors have asked her to push for the funding.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    jlew24asu wrote:
    sadly I dont see how this problem can go away. I do however like how bush very much recognizes how wasteful congress is. but with the amount spent in Iraq, he should look in the mirror first. but its a good sign that I hope remains on the table long after the Iraq shit is behind us.

    the line item veto. which sadly was one of the most poorly understood concepts and became a political football and ended up deemed unconstitutional in one of the most poorly reasoned supreme court decisions i ever read short of roe v. wade.
  • jlew24asu wrote:
    the amount of fucking wasteful spending of taxpayer money. I know I know, everyone is going to reply with the "wasteful" spending on Iraq. defense spending, excluded, we waste BILLIONS.

    for example. in wake of the MN bridge collapse, its said that some 70,000 bridges need repair in this country. I was watching a press conference when bush said he would not raise taxes to pay for it but ask congress to reallocate current spending and ask them to reconsider what we spend money on. I agree. (again I am talking about domestic things). for example, 40 million was spent on some stupid project to find out how to increase foot traffic on walking paths in minnesota. the list goes on and on.

    what is that report that comes out every year? the pig report or something? can anything really be done about the shameful spending by congress?
    This is an excellent reason to vote for Kucinich in 2008. Easily the most fiscally responsible candidate out there. Easily.
  • Thorns2010Thorns2010 Posts: 2,201
    1970RR wrote:
    You are definately correct in pointing out the skewed priorites that exist in government funding.
    Minnesota, and Hennepin County in particular, were more than happy to raise the sales tax against voters wishes to fund a brand-new ballpark for the benefit of millionaire owners.
    I would think that the $450 million would have gone a long way to repairing the bridge.

    At least I know where my extra 15 cents per $100 is going though. It'd be nice to know where the extra state tax for alcohol goes, or cigarette tax, or gas tax goes to.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    For the US, I believe a big problem is scale. The bigger the operation and the more money and people in circulation, the more complicated it gets keeping it under control, and the easier it is to piss away, or outright sneak away even larger amounts of money. I'm not saying that Norway doesn't waste money, because we do, and to some extent, given that none of us are God, waste is unavoidable in big operations. However, the bigger and more complex the system, the larger the waste, and the easier it is to hide stealing, and the easier it is to just allocate funds at face-value, wasting money on unnecessary things, and throwing money where it is not quite certain what happens with it.

    Get the decisions closer to the voters. It increases transparency, greatly increasing the legitimacy of the entire process, and it is kept in a controllable size. Waste is reduced considerably, and outright fraud becomes much more difficult.

    Now I wonder why I'm not comfortable with the EU...

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

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  • Yes let's all focus on the small stuff...

    Murdoch loves when we all do this.
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  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    we all agree that big government miss-manages/spends money, right? how then could you vote for a candidate that you know will raise taxes, take as much of the peoples money as they can get, then piss it away?

    Exactly. The government doesn't need anymore money. They need far, far less.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
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