The Pope is smart...fundies to follow?

Smellyman2

“(Creation and Evolution) are presented as alternatives that exclude each other,” the pope said. “This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such.”


"Last April, the Vatican sponsored a scientific conference on climate change to underscore the role that religious leaders around the world could play in reminding people that willfully damaging the environment is sinful."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19956961/

Come on "It's Junk Science Fundies" get on board.

know1

Nice to see some common sense from the Catholic church for once.

CorporateWhore

The Pope's just trying to win back all of the people he lost a few weeks ago when he said that salvation exists solely in the church.

God bless him.

soulsinging

know1 wrote:

Nice to see some common sense from the Catholic church for once.

yeah, it was like music to a recovering catholic's ears when i first heard that a few months back.

caifan82

soulsinging wrote:

yeah, it was like music to a recovering catholic's ears when i first heard that a few months back.

Yet he also said stuff like:

Touching on a sensitive historical episode, Benedict said Latin American Indians had been "silently longing" to become Christians when Spanish and Portuguese conquerors took over their native lands centuries ago.

"In effect, the proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture," he said.

That's some funny stuff right there from the pope.

CorporateWhore

caifan82 wrote:

Yet he also said stuff like:

Touching on a sensitive historical episode, Benedict said Latin American Indians had been "silently longing" to become Christians when Spanish and Portuguese conquerors took over their native lands centuries ago.

"In effect, the proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture," he said.

That's some funny stuff right there from the pope.

Many of the tribes did try to become Christians, but the armies of Spain and Portugal killed them. Priests and missionaries supported the Indians cultures and wanted to save them.

It was the governments of those countries that killed the Indians, not the Church. The Church continues to help some tribes maintain their identity and culture.

caifan82

CorporateWhore wrote:

Many of the tribes did try to become Christians, but the armies of Spain and Portugal killed them. Priests and missionaries supported the Indians cultures and wanted to save them.

It was the governments of those countries that killed the Indians, not the Church. The Church continues to help some tribes maintain their identity and culture.

The Inquisition was supported by the church... if that's not imposition, then I don't know what is...

rigneyclan

CorporateWhore wrote:

Priests and missionaries supported the Indians cultures and wanted to save them.

If the priests and missionaries wanted to save the cultures of the Native Americans, they would have left them alone.

MakingWaves

CorporateWhore wrote:

The Pope's just trying to win back all of the people he lost a few weeks ago when he said that salvation exists solely in the church.

God bless him.

He is just reinforcing something Pope John Paul II said a while back on evolution. Really isn't anything new. But I am glad to hear him saying it.

RainDog

In my Catholic grade school days (many, many long year ago), I remember us touching on evolution. We didn't get too far into it (grade school, after all), but it was mentioned and not disparaged. I think this has been the Catholic position for a while now. In their view, God is God and can do whatever the hell he wants. If he did it through evolution, so be it.

For all their other faults, the Catholic Church isn't literalist. In fact, they're openly and proudly non-literalist - my Grandmother once told me that in her school days they often discouraged reading the Bible - leading many Protestants to consider them non-Biblical, non-Christian.

CorporateWhore

RainDog wrote:

In my Catholic grade school days (many, many long year ago), I remember us touching on evolution. We didn't get too far into it (grade school, after all), but it was mentioned and not disparaged. I think this has been the Catholic position for a while now. In their view, God is God and can do whatever the hell he wants. If he did it through evolution, so be it.

For all their other faults, the Catholic Church isn't literalist. In fact, they're openly and proudly non-literalist - my Grandmother once told me that in her school days they often discouraged reading the Bible - leading many Protestants to consider them non-Biblical, non-Christian.

One of the greatest tragedies of Christianity is when the Bible was suddenly read completelly literally. It's only happened recently. In the past, it was read largely as an allegory.

Such as: Song of Songs cannot be read literally - otherwise you force it to be a love poem and you miss the underlying beauty of it. That is, you miss the comparison of love between a husband and wife to love between Israel and Yahweh.

Kann

RainDog wrote:

For all their other faults, the Catholic Church isn't literalist. In fact, they're openly and proudly non-literalist - my Grandmother once told me that in her school days they often discouraged reading the Bible - leading many Protestants to consider them non-Biblical, non-Christian.

I don't see it that way : I think catholics have some hindsight and do not take the old testament too literally. But do blindly believe everything written in the new testament. They believe their true God is the peace lovin' one described by Jesus, not the jalous and fierce one in the old testament.

RainDog

CorporateWhore wrote:

One of the greatest tragedies of Christianity is when the Bible was suddenly read completelly literally. It's only happened recently. In the past, it was read largely as an allegory.

I think it was the Dispensationalist movement of the 19th century that really popularized the literalist interpretation. Bastards.

RainDog

Kann wrote:

I don't see it that way : I think catholics have some hindsight and do not take the old testament too literally. But do blindly believe everything written in the new testament. They believe their true God is the peace lovin' one described by Jesus, not the jalous and fierce one in the old testament.

Yes, they believe that Jesus was the literal Son of God, and is literally God himself. However, even with the New Testament, they tend towards taking things in an historical context.

CorporateWhore

Kann wrote:

I don't see it that way : I think catholics have some hindsight and do not take the old testament too literally. But do blindly believe everything written in the new testament. They believe their true God is the peace lovin' one described by Jesus, not the jalous and fierce one in the old testament.

That's not entirely true. Catholics believe everything in the Bible but read some parts as not literal. Such as: we don't believe you are supposed to stone your daughter if she becomes a tramp. We just believe that that type of sin is very serious and those passages inform that belief.

As for the new testament, you really can't believe that John's visions in Revelation actually happened or will happen exactly as he says. They're to be taken figuratively in some respects. Perhaps the mark of the beast won't be exactly 666 - scholars maintain that 666 was code word for "Nero," since Nero persecuted Christians at the time Revelation was written.

The point is, you need to understand the context and purpose of why scripture was written, not just what it says.

MakingWaves

RainDog wrote:

In my Catholic grade school days (many, many long year ago), I remember us touching on evolution. We didn't get too far into it (grade school, after all), but it was mentioned and not disparaged. I think this has been the Catholic position for a while now. In their view, God is God and can do whatever the hell he wants. If he did it through evolution, so be it.

For all their other faults, the Catholic Church isn't literalist. In fact, they're openly and proudly non-literalist - my Grandmother once told me that in her school days they often discouraged reading the Bible - leading many Protestants to consider them non-Biblical, non-Christian.

My 13 years (including Kindergarden) of education in Catholic schools makes me believe that I am confident in what I say about the Catholic church's beliefs and you are exactly right.

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

As for the new testament, you really can't believe that John's visions in Revelation actually happened or will happen exactly as he says. They're to be taken figuratively in some respects. Perhaps the mark of the beast won't be exactly 666 - scholars maintain that 666 was code word for "Nero," since Nero persecuted Christians at the time Revelation was written.

man, the people that do REALLY crack me the fuck up. they're like the trekkies of christianity. nerds!

im surprised to find myself agreeing with you though... literalist fundamentalism is a true cancer in america. i don't know where it came from or why it is so popular, but it is both dangerous and seriously hurting the country. it's the same brand of thinking islamic terrorists use.

soulsinging

caifan82 wrote:

Yet he also said stuff like:

Touching on a sensitive historical episode, Benedict said Latin American Indians had been "silently longing" to become Christians when Spanish and Portuguese conquerors took over their native lands centuries ago.

"In effect, the proclamation of Jesus and of his Gospel did not at any point involve an alienation of the pre-Columbus cultures, nor was it the imposition of a foreign culture," he said.

That's some funny stuff right there from the pope.

didn't say they were ALWAYS reasonable, or even often. in fact, most of the time they're not. which is why it's always a pleasant surprise when i hear them saying something intelligent for once.

CorporateWhore

soulsinging wrote:

man, the people that do REALLY crack me the fuck up. they're like the trekkies of christianity. nerds!

Fundamentalists are very confused about the Bible.

I prefer them to non-believers though

soulsinging

CorporateWhore wrote:

Fundamentalists are very confused about the Bible.

I prefer them to non-believers though

not me. non-believers seem by and large too apathetic to harm me. fundamentalists scare me. they're dangerous.