America is NOT a democracy

Eliot Rosewater

It's a republic. If it were a democracy, we'd be out of Iraq. Why does everyone refer to it as a democracy? "And to the democracy for which it stands..." No, that's not how it reads at all.

The main difference between a republic and a democracy is the insane amount of corruption that's inherent in a republic. Elected representatives have no obligation whatsoever to follow their constituents. Well, they have obligation, but nothing binds them to the will of the people. This is why we have what Chomsky called a democratic deficit - A large gap between public opinion and policy.

So....once people get brave enough to do something about all this bullshit that's been going on, why not make it a true democracy? It may be a pain in the ass because that would mean more elections, or maybe not even more elections, but bigger ballots. What do you guys think? Why is everyone always referring to the U.S. as a democracy and why don't we push for a true democracy?

EvilToasterElf

democracy is an adjective modifying republic.

The only time democracy has worked historically was in Athens, because most work was done by unpaid slaves while the landowners could sit around bickering.

I think as soon as the internet became standard equipment for the American family democracy had a chance, and still does, all it will take is the simultaneous death of every senator, rep, and member of the administration, and their immediate replacement with people brain dead or idealistic enough to like the idea of sharing their power.

Eliot Rosewater

EvilToasterElf wrote:

democracy is an adjective modifying republic.

The only time democracy has worked historically was in Athens, because most work was done by unpaid slaves while the landowners could sit around bickering.

I think as soon as the internet became standard equipment for the American family democracy had a chance, and still does, all it will take is the simultaneous death of every senator, rep, and member of the administration, and their immediate replacement with people brain dead or idealistic enough to like the idea of sharing their power.

Dude if you're planning some kind of mass assassination then good on ya but count me out. I'm already terrified of this police state I'm living in....

lalalalaaaaaaaa

don't gimme no wrote:

why not make it a true democracy?

Because a true democracy isn't functional. We can't have a vote everytime a decision needs to be made.

But I think we can focus on making the government more democratic by shrinking it mostly. That's the real problem. I think there's too much federal control, and too little local and regional control.

Eliot Rosewater

Saturnal wrote:

Because a true democracy isn't functional. We can't have a vote everytime a decision needs to be made.

But I think we can focus on making the government more democratic by shrinking it mostly. That's the real problem. I think there's too much federal control, and too little local and regional control.

Well, if we focused on important issues instead of tying up congress with bullshit like investigating the NY Times for doing their job or "protecting" marriage then I really think it's possible. I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time on this and it seems kinda child-like but couldn't we have congress propose legislation and have the people vote on those issues?...maybe on a semi-annual basis? I dunno....there's got to be a better way. And this country is ruining the word "democracy" for me. I feel agression when I hear it these days.

lalalalaaaaaaaa

don't gimme no wrote:

Well, if we focused on important issues instead of tying up congress with bullshit like investigating the NY Times for doing their job or "protecting" marriage then I really think it's possible. I mean, I haven't spent a lot of time on this and it seems kinda child-like but couldn't we have congress propose legislation and have the people vote on those issues?...maybe on a semi-annual basis? I dunno....there's got to be a better way. And this country is ruining the word "democracy" for me. I feel agression when I hear it these days.

Yeah I hear ya, and I definitely agree that there's a democratic deficit. But voting on both issues and candidates twice a year doesn't seem realistic. That would mean laws are passed only twice a year (using your example). That's really not functional.

I think it's better to focus on making the system work the way it's designed to. A republic is not a terrible idea, it just needs to be kept in check by the population. And we do that by organizing and putting pressure on our reps to vote how we want, or they'll be replaced. And that sort of organizing does work when enough people get in on it. It worked for civil rights, environmental laws, women's rights, etc.

Uncle Leo

Saturnal wrote:

Because a true democracy isn't functional.

This is the key. A republic is necessary for a society this large.

Eliot Rosewater

Saturnal wrote:

I think it's better to focus on making the system work the way it's designed to. A republic is not a terrible idea, it just needs to be kept in check by the population. And we do that by organizing and putting pressure on our reps to vote how we want, or they'll be replaced. And that sort of organizing does work when enough people get in on it. It worked for civil rights, environmental laws, women's rights, etc.

I guess that's the answer, but it's insanely difficult....especially for me, living in Utah and being surrounded by morons.....uhh, I mean mormons that are so far right it's sick. I write my senators and congressmen quite a bit but getting others around here to even open their minds is near impossible.

The Waiting Trophy Man

democracy is an illusion.