everything you've ever wanted to know about Finland!

JustVisiting

All I really know about finland is that the moomintroll books come from there... best childrens books ever.

eMMI

JustVisiting wrote:

All I really know about finland is that the moomintroll books come from there... best childrens books ever.

lol. well, I'd say that's quite a lot as I think many don't know even that.

and yes, the Moomins are some mighty fine folk.

eMMI

Badmind wrote:

Hi eMMI, you´re very kind too...
Maybe someday I´ll visit your country... that finnish girl, has already invited me..
But you know... Finland is just a "little" bit expensive... just a little bit... lol...
So since I´m college student... I can´t afford that trip now...
So who knows... someday...
Jesus I just hope not to freeze there... lol... just kidding...
Oh, yeah.. I don´t know if you know them but my cousin just saw Alice in Chains in Lisbon two days ago... just fucking sick!!!
Now he´s so excited about the PJ show...
I´m already imagining how it´s gonna be...
Everybody is gonna be moshing, and jumping ... bodies flying in the air(altough I know it is forbidden to do stage diving in this tour, or body diving I´m not sure how is this called)...

P.S.(This message is for Eddie, lol)
By the way Eddie, you´re getting old man.. remeber Cascais 1996? Porch? you did stage diving here.. you jumped from some sound support over 5 metres from the ground... and you broke your head ... and you ended up in a hospital... ahaha... and when you dive into the crowd everybody just went nuts...
So why no stage diving in this tour????)

thank you.

lol. you're very welcome to visit Finland. just come around during summertime and you won't freeze.

yeah I know AIC but have heard very little songs from them.

well, I too hope you have a great time at the show!

IndianSummer

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107513.html

read the bit about how the sami are the original people and the finnish speaking migrated into finland.


my question - just where the finnish speaking "finns" get into finnland FROm??
from germanic scandinavia? if not then from where??

the language finnish isnt germanic at all, and infact doesnt have any connection with any european language, but has a lot in common with turkic (and "ugric" - tho i dont know whats "urgic" actually means)

eMMI

IndianSummer wrote:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107513.html

read the bit about how the sami are the original people and the finnish speaking migrated into finland.


my question - just where the finnish speaking "finns" get into finnland FROm??
from germanic scandinavia? if not then from where??

the language finnish isnt germanic at all, and infact doesnt have any connection with any european language, but has a lot in common with turkic (and "ugric" - tho i dont know whats "urgic" actually means)

now that's one hell of a question! lol.

hmm. as far as I know, people moved to Finland from "all over the place".. but I'm not too sure. I'm gonna have to look into this and get back to you.

OutOfBreath

IndianSummer wrote:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107513.html

read the bit about how the sami are the original people and the finnish speaking migrated into finland.


my question - just where the finnish speaking "finns" get into finnland FROm??
from germanic scandinavia? if not then from where??

the language finnish isnt germanic at all, and infact doesnt have any connection with any european language, but has a lot in common with turkic (and "ugric" - tho i dont know whats "urgic" actually means)

Finnish and Hungarian are the oddballs of european languages, and are lumped together in a category called finnish-ugric languages, that consists of those two. The other countries have either Latin, Germanic or Slavic languages. As to where they came from, I actually have no idea and I have history as a minor. Russia/Central Asia perhaps? The rest of Scandinavia were settled by germanic people at some point (driving away the lapps ofcourse), so they can't come from there. Maybe some seperate tribe from somewhere that moved out altogether and settled all in Finland, leaving noone behind, or those left behind were exterminated by others? In that case, I'd say central Asia'd be the best bet, as many peoples that migrated to Europe came from there.

That's my theory anyway.

(edit) Actually, nevermind what I say. Here's wikipedia's take on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_people
Seems like Finns are from all over the place, but they also have a connection to the lapps linguistically. Coupled with very consistent archeological findings, it seems that there hasn't been any invasion of a different culture at any point, but that it has rather slowly developed over time.

Peace
Dan

eMMI

OutOfBreath wrote:

Finnish and Hungarian are the oddballs of european languages, and are lumped together in a category called finnish-ugric languages, that consists of those two. The other countries have either Latin, Germanic or Slavic languages. As to where they came from, I actually have no idea and I have history as a minor. Russia/Central Asia perhaps? The rest of Scandinavia were settled by germanic people at some point (driving away the lapps ofcourse), so they can't come from there. Maybe some seperate tribe from somewhere that moved out altogether and settled all in Finland, leaving noone behind, or those left behind were exterminated by others? In that case, I'd say central Asia'd be the best bet, as many peoples that migrated to Europe came from there.

That's my theory anyway.

Peace
Dan

well, I'd say that's a fairly good theory.

and I'd also say that you might really be onto something. as you mentioned, the Finns aren't Germanic and in that case the Russia/Asia sector seems very likely.
but I don't have stone-hard facts. damn, where's my history teacher when I need him?! :rolleyes: lol.

edit: good on you for finding that link ( = see OutOfBreath's post).

IndianSummer

so finns may not be european at all??

meanwhile the sami... since they always stayed in the piece of land called finnland, and then were pushed to the northern limits of finnland... have been in western europe for longer time than the finns !!

the sami are from central asia-north russia originally isnt it?

IndianSummer

OutOfBreath wrote:

Finnish and Hungarian are the oddballs of european languages,

as are basque and romany (language of the gypsies).

hungary gets its name from "huns"... the people who invaded europe from a region between today's mongolia and todays turmenistan (not turkey) ultimately to be defeated by a roman-german combine. but not before they had significantly altertered the history, demography, language and genetic makeup of hungarians. they even left their name on Magyar.

the gypsies/roma are ex-indians who migrated to europe or were taken from india by islamics and sold as slaves. romania gets its name from them.

OutOfBreath

IndianSummer wrote:

so finns may not be european at all??

meanwhile the sami... since they always stayed in the piece of land called finnland, and then were pushed to the northern limits of finnland... have been in western europe for longer time than the finns !!

the sami are from central asia-north russia originally isnt it?

If you read the link I provided in my edit, it seems that what we now call finns, came from both the southwest and the southeast(of Finland). And since archeologists find no radical change in finds, it seems there never was an invasion, but rather a continous trickle to the region, which also seems likely given the same root of sami and finnish language. Those who moved there were influenced by the language of those that were there already.

The finns never were a "people" but is rather something after the fact, describing people living in an area. I also went into that trap assuming that since we have finns today, they must have been a tribe or people in the distant past as well.

But the sami have been there for a while, yes. But they are european through and through. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami#History
They have lived in that area for milennia, and are considered the indigenous people of the area. But no links to asia has been confirmed.

Peace
Dan

IndianSummer

OutOfBreath wrote:

If you read the link I provided in my edit, it seems that what we now call finns, came from both the southwest and the southeast(of Finland). And since archeologists find no radical change in finds, it seems there never was an invasion, but rather a continous trickle to the region, which also seems likely given the same root of sami and finnish language. Those who moved there were influenced by the language of those that were there already.

The finns never were a "people" but is rather something after the fact, describing people living in an area. I also went into that trap assuming that since we have finns today, they must have been a tribe or people in the distant past as well.

But the sami have been there for a while, yes. But they are european through and through. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sami#History
They have lived in that area for milennia, and are considered the indigenous people of the area. But no links to asia has been confirmed.

Peace
Dan

so if the sami are european through and through, and the finns are later day sami who trickled into finnland .... then how do you explain that finnish and sami languages are similar to themselves but are totally disssimilar to other european languagues.

OutOfBreath

IndianSummer wrote:

so if the sami are european through and through, and the finns are later day sami who trickled into finnland .... then how do you explain that finnish and sami languages are similar to themselves but are totally disssimilar to other european languagues.

Because in most of the rest of Europe, certain tribes of people have invaded and taken over the whole place, except for the small enclaves of indigenous survivors like the celts, basques, sami etc. what I am suggesting is that Finland is located outside the prime territory of Europe, and is a place where the biggest invasions never reached. Remnants of the old languages and culture are mostly found in the out of way places in western europe. People settled in finland, but seemingly more slowly and over a long time, thus smoewhat assimilating into the culture that existed there before them, the sami. That didn't last for very long it seems, but long ebough for the "finns" to have a language close to the sami. Consequent settlers then adopted the language of the "finns" that ultimately was influenced by the sami.

thing about European mainstream languages is that they are more or less results of empires and hegemony. The latin languages prevail where Rome stretched. the Germanic languages prevailed where the saxons, goths and others prevailed, and not forgetting the Holy Roman Empire (with german emperors). Finland has been left outside the worst of these commotions, until the Swedish conquest in the early middle ages.

I do not know why their language is like noone else's, I'm just suggesting possible scenarios. I'm no linguistic historian, so I can't be sure. I refer only to the wikipedia source that says that links with the sami to the east of their current area have not been found linguistically, and that there are no evidence of a largescale invasion of "Finns" at any point.

Peace
Dan

csun1966

I would like to say that I have enjoyed this forum very much because the topic is highly interesting. I have always wanted to know more about Finland. I would like to thank the person who started this topic because I have been able to increase my knowledge.

There is a question I have always wanted to ask. I enjoy listening to heavy metal and rock bands from Finland like Children of Bodom, Norther, Lullacry and many others. My question is why are Finnish heavy metal and rock musicians so talented? Is it because they have good genes or are they forced to stay indoors and practice for long hours because of the cold weather?

I would appreciate it if someone would take the time to answer this because I would really like to know the answer.

Thanks so much!!

eMMI

csun1966 wrote:

I would like to say that I have enjoyed this forum very much because the topic is highly interesting. I have always wanted to know more about Finland. I would like to thank the person who started this topic because I have been able to increase my knowledge.

There is a question I have always wanted to ask. I enjoy listening to heavy metal and rock bands from Finland like Children of Bodom, Norther, Lullacry and many others. My question is why are Finnish heavy metal and rock musicians so talented? Is it because they have good genes or are they forced to stay indoors and practice for long hours because of the cold weather?

I would appreciate it if someone would take the time to answer this because I would really like to know the answer.

Thanks so much!!

well thank you and you're incredibly welcome.

I'm gonna have to think about that for a while more (it's pretty early around here.. ) but I think one of the reasons there are many good heavy metal bands here is our nations habit to fall into melancholy quite easily. :rolleyes:
and when there's the seed to start a heavy metal band.. well, I guess they do practise a lot.

hmm. that's the best I can do at the moment but I'll get back to this.

Badmind

Hi again eMMI...
So here´s another question...lol
The Scandinavian countries are said to be the countries with better life conditions in the whole world... but at the same time... I believe that they are also the coutries where the rate of suicides among young people are more high...
So can you point any reason, for this fact?
Is it because of the weather??
Another question, one day I was seeing a site, and I found out that many finnish people wanted to learn portuguese or spanish.. because they´re always saying that these languages are so beatiful...
Also that finnish girl says the same, that she wants to learn portuguese... and she´s always saying that it sounds so beatiful...
So why do you think they found the portuguese language beatiful??
Do you also find portuguese/spanish beatiful???
Thanks again, eMMI... Very nice thread...

OutOfBreath

Badmind wrote:

Hi again eMMI...
So here´s another question...lol
The Scandinavian countries are said to be the countries with better life conditions in the whole world... but at the same time... I believe that they are also the coutries where the rate of suicides among young people are more high...
So can you point any reason, for this fact?
Is it because of the weather??

I'll just pop in on this one. Suicide rates are coupled with good living standards, and it is consistent that the countries with the highest standards, have the highest suicide rates. Why this is, is a very complicated matter, and noone truly knows. Perhaps people in countries with high living standards have higher expectations in life, and thus have a greater fall if they aren't met, leading to suicides. Maybe it's the lamented dissolution of community and solidarity between people, leaving more people lonely. It's take your pick, really.

As for the nordic countries, I dont think the weather is that important. Could be a contributing factor of course, but I dont think people kill themselves over bad weather.

Peace
Dan

Scarletstarlet

Hi, I know that in Finland there is a famous tv show,it's a kind of bigbrother, in which the guests have to learn italian and the one who learn better the italian language wins.
Is that true?
And if it's true, why italian?

eMMI

Badmind wrote:

Hi again eMMI...
So here´s another question...lol
The Scandinavian countries are said to be the countries with better life conditions in the whole world... but at the same time... I believe that they are also the coutries where the rate of suicides among young people are more high...
So can you point any reason, for this fact?
Is it because of the weather??

I'm thinking pretty much the same way OutOfBreath is..so check out what he said.

I too don't think weather is that big of a factor. I think it would be ridiculous to kill yourself becuase you don't like the weather.
then again, combined with feeling allready depressed a cold/rainy day in my opinion is not the thing to pick up your spirits.

but seriously, the weather here is not that bad. I don't know if it's some kind of a myth or whatever that it's always cold in Scandinavia but really! of course this isn't the warmest place on Earth either but at least we've got four seasons!

Badmind wrote:

Another question, one day I was seeing a site, and I found out that many finnish people wanted to learn portuguese or spanish.. because they´re always saying that these languages are so beatiful...
Also that finnish girl says the same, that she wants to learn portuguese... and she´s always saying that it sounds so beatiful...
So why do you think they found the portuguese language beatiful??
Do you also find portuguese/spanish beatiful???
Thanks again, eMMI... Very nice thread...

well, as for me, I studied Spanish when I was still in school. I don't know why really, but I don't think that the fact that it's a beautiful language mattered that much. I was told that it's a rather non-difficult language to learn so I decided to start it. of course, it's always good to know more than your own language.

other thing affecting the popularity of Spanish/Portuguese might be that they are languages spoken in quite a few countries/places.

and why do people find these languages beautiful?
well, I'd say that when you think about Spanish/Portuguese you also think about the people speaking those languages and the cultures the languages are spoken in. you get this image of passionate and exotic people who talk really fast and who emphasize their words with their whole bodies. the bigger picture you get when you think about a certain thing (a certain language in this case) makes it seem exciting and you want to be a part of that.
I hope that makes sense.

btw. I never became too good in Spanish. I can introduce myself and little stuff like that but I have a really small vocabulary. during those 8 courses I could've learnt more but maybe later.

eMMI

Scarletstarlet wrote:

Hi, I know that in Finland there is a famous tv show,it's a kind of bigbrother, in which the guests have to learn italian and the one who learn better the italian language wins.
Is that true?
And if it's true, why italian?

yes it's true. I can't remember the name of the show and I'm not sure if they're airing it anymore.
I must admit though that I never got to see any of the episodes (I always forgot even though our Spanish teacher kept telling us about it).

I haven't got the slightest idea why they decided to pick Italian. maybe the producers or some other people had some connections..

Badmind

eMMI wrote:

I'm thinking pretty much the same way OutOfBreath is..so check out what he said.

I too don't think weather is that big of a factor. I think it would be ridiculous to kill yourself becuase you don't like the weather.
then again, combined with feeling allready depressed a cold/rainy day in my opinion is not the thing to pick up your spirits.

but seriously, the weather here is not that bad. I don't know if it's some kind of a myth or whatever that it's always cold in Scandinavia but really! of course this isn't the warmest place on Earth either but at least we've got four seasons!



well, as for me, I studied Spanish when I was still in school. I don't know why really, but I don't think that the fact that it's a beautiful language mattered that much. I was told that it's a rather non-difficult language to learn so I decided to start it. of course, it's always good to know more than your own language.

other thing affecting the popularity of Spanish/Portuguese might be that they are languages spoken in quite a few countries/places.

and why do people find these languages beautiful?
well, I'd say that when you think about Spanish/Portuguese you also think about the people speaking those languages and the cultures the languages are spoken in. you get this image of passionate and exotic people who talk really fast and who emphasize their words with their whole bodies. the bigger picture you get when you think about a certain thing (a certain language in this case) makes it seem exciting and you want to be a part of that.
I hope that makes sense.

btw. I never became too good in Spanish. I can introduce myself and little stuff like that but I have a really small vocabulary. during those 8 courses I could've learnt more but maybe later.

Yeah... I believe that, that myth exists...
A couple of days ago, I was talking with my brother about this europe PJ tour... and he said.. something like... "Oh yeah.. perahps, after this tour, they tour again in europe on a year or so... cause they´re not going to any of those countries where it´s always snowing, and where young people are always killing themselves... I can´t remember the name of those countries...".. and I said Scandinavian countries.. and he : "Yeah, those countries... where nothing happens"... So I believe that at least here in south europe many people think, that nothing really interesting happens, and that´s always cold in Scandinavian countries.... but I guess.. all people here are all wrong...
Well I can´t say.. I´ve never been in any scandinavian country... but with your description... I bet that it´s not like that...
Ok.. I understood what you´ve said about languages... yeah portuguese is spoken in 7 countries.. and more than 200 million people worldwide speaks portuguese... spanish I guess it´s spoken by 350 million people...
So that can be a reason...