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How can you not associate Obama's church to Obama?

JP2026766JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
edited June 2008 in A Moving Train
With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

Mansfield II '08

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  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    Well, I've gone to a very conservative church my whole life, and I am pro-choice, pro gay rights, and a hardcore Democrat.

    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    I get tired of everyone taking what someone else has said and then attaching it to that someone's friend, co-worker, etc.

    I have a bunch of friends that I disagree with on many issues...I sure hope others don't hold what they say against me
    hippiemom = goodness
  • VictoryGinVictoryGin Posts: 1,207
    ledvedderman wrote:
    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.

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  • JP2026766JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    cincybearcat wrote:
    I get tired of everyone taking what someone else has said and then attaching it to that someone's friend, co-worker, etc.

    I have a bunch of friends that I disagree with on many issues...I sure hope others don't hold what they say against me

    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?

    Mansfield II '08

    EV Solo Shows:

    NYC I
    NJPAC

    I. LOVE. YIELD.
  • LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSunLikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun Posts: 6,097
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?

    not to the degree that it has been "examined" already for months.
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    I think people are either waiting or baiting Obama to go "ghetto". I think confuses and pisses people off that they haven't found that "thing" that will just make him lose it. They don't understand what makes him tick, they're all waiting to see the angry black man. I'm not so sure this doesn't include Wright or Pfleger wanting Obama to stand up for the heat they have taken, even though Wright and Pfleger brought it on themselves.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Strangest TribeStrangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

    Isn't this simply the essence of prejudice?

    are you really who you associate with? c'mon

    a few months ago "some people" thought Obama was Muslim.
    the Minions
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    I'm not trying to attack here or anything, just trying to understand. And you do make a very good point. It isn't fair to just blindly associate, I agree with that. But is it fair to at least examine their relationship? Does that come with the territory of running for a position as prestigious as President?


    Personally I don't think it is fair to take what a someone says from the pulpit and apply it to everyone sitting in that room, every word.

    I understand where you are coming from and have had this discussion with a friend of mine that dislikes Obama and (in my friends word) his "undefined movement of change".

    But I guess if you are going to align yourself with a church and pastor to garner votes, maybe you deserve it when it bites you on the ass.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Strangest TribeStrangest Tribe Posts: 2,502
    This is WHY I don't go to church....








    That....... and I don't believe in God and mindless worship and pandering.
    the Minions
  • Its Evolution BabyIts Evolution Baby Posts: 849
    My girlfriend belongs to an Armenian church and they preach staying together as a community and keeping Armenian tradition alive by marrying only other Armenians.

    However my girlfriend and I are very happy and I'm not even close to being an Armenian (Irish/Portuguese). I don't associate what her church believes and what she believes.
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  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    ThrowUrArmsAroundMe wrote:
    With what Wright and Pfleger have said...it's just difficult for me to separate him from that. He's known Pfleger for 20 years (like Wright), got him 200,000 bucks in earmarked bills...I just want to understand why people don't associate the two.

    To say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright is incorrect.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • JP2026766JP2026766 Posts: 1,125
    blackredyellow wrote:
    To say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright is incorrect.

    I didn't say he had the same relationship with Pfleger as he did with Wright. I said he has known him as long.

    Mansfield II '08

    EV Solo Shows:

    NYC I
    NJPAC

    I. LOVE. YIELD.
  • sweetpotatosweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    ledvedderman wrote:
    Well, I've gone to a very conservative church my whole life, and I am pro-choice, pro gay rights, and a hardcore Democrat.

    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That doesn't mean that I believe everything (or half) of what I hear there, but I have a personal history there that I couldn't find anywhere else--I'm sure like Senator and Mrs. Obama had of their former church since it is the place where Barack found God, got married, and where their children are baptized.

    Not everyone who goes to church drinks the crazy kool aid.

    one of the best posts on this subject EVER.

    thank you, lvman.
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

    "Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore

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  • sweetpotatosweetpotato Posts: 1,278
    puremagic wrote:
    I think people are either waiting or baiting Obama to go "ghetto". I think (it) confuses and pisses people off that they haven't found that "thing" that will just make him lose it. They don't understand what makes him tick, they're all waiting to see the angry black man...

    BINGO! and that's pretty much the essence of racism, isn't it?

    2nd best post on this topic, ever. :)
    "Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States, Barack Obama."

    "Obama's main opponent in this election on November 4th (was) not John McCain, it (was) ignorance."~Michael Moore

    "i'm feeling kinda righteous right now. with my badass motherfuckin' ukulele!"
    ~ed, 8/7
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    Q: How can you not associate Obama's church to Obama?

    A: Easy...you go outside and bounce your head off the nearest sidewalk until you go cross eyed and pass out...repeat if necessary.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • Staceb10Staceb10 Posts: 675
    You have to associate them to some degree. Sure not all of a sermon is going to relate to everyone but you can't tell me that Wright's sermons over the years haven't been racist at all. And for those defending Obama's friendship with his racist pastor, would you defend Bush if the roles were reversed?
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    What is funny is how fox news and the right are having a circle jerk over "another pastor scandal". And this one is about a pastor making fun of Hilary Clinton - you would think they would embrace the guy, hell they've been doing it for years.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    ledvedderman wrote:
    My pastor has made crazy remarks in the past, does that mean that I believe the crazy remarks? No. You may ask why I continue you to go to this church. Well, it is nice to spend the time with my family as a whole, and my grandpa was a firm believer in the church and when I go I feel close to him and remember him.

    That's the all-time best reason/reasoning I have ever heard for going to church.

    Well said!!! Great to hear those reasons!


    Not that you'll get me to go:D
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,497
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    This is WHY I don't go to church....








    That....... and I don't believe in God and mindless worship and pandering.

    You don't have to believe in God and go to church to be a mindless worshiper and panderer. Plenty of that to go around.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 16,060
    Strangest Tribe wrote:
    Isn't this simply the essence of prejudice?

    are you really who you associate with? c'mon

    a few months ago "some people" thought Obama was Muslim.

    I'm pretty sure Obama is a Muslim. I saw it on Fox News.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    Staceb10 wrote:
    And for those defending Obama's friendship with his racist pastor, would you defend Bush if the roles were reversed?
    If? The Bushes and the right have their own share of crazy religious bastards. I deduct 26 points from both sides. Current score: Obama 47, Bush -26. Net advantage, Obama.
  • ledveddermanledvedderman Posts: 7,761
    NMyTree wrote:
    That's the all-time best reason/reasoning I have ever heard for going to church.

    Well said!!! Great to hear those reasons!


    Not that you'll get me to go:D

    Thanks man. Going to church doesn't make everyone a mindless sheep, some people just have personal reason to go.

    If I want to feel close to God or be spiritual I can feel it when I see nature in motion, or see the growth in my wifes stomach that is my child. I don't need anything to get hammered into my head.
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  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    ledvedderman wrote:
    ...If I want to feel close to God or be spiritual I can feel it when I see nature in motion, or see the growth in my wifes stomach that is my child. I don't need anything to get hammered into my head.

    Absolutely. I'm with you on that. Always have been.
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