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How Good Are Experienced Presidents?

barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
edited September 2008 in A Moving Train
Thought you guys might have fun with this. I ran across this page while doing some research and found it interesting. The article takes the Historical rankings of U.S. Presidents and correlates it with overall years experience.

http://electoral-vote.com/evp2008/Info/experience.html
The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin

Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • orig_long redorig_long red Posts: 2,029
    Indeed very interesting. I love quasi-scientific surveys.
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    that's just stupid.

    "Your pick disagrees with that of most historians, who see Lincoln as the greatest President ever"

    actually, many, many historians see Lincoln as one of the worst.
  • orig_long redorig_long red Posts: 2,029
    _outlaw wrote:
    that's just stupid.

    "Your pick disagrees with that of most historians, who see Lincoln as the greatest President ever"

    actually, many, many historians see Lincoln as one of the worst.

    such as whom? and for what reason? rather than just denounce, provide reasons to the contrary.
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    long red wrote:
    such as whom? and for what reason? rather than just denounce, provide reasons to the contrary.
    you know, it's funny that I'm the one who has the prove Lincoln WASN'T the 'greatest president of all time', even though no one has proven he WAS yet...

    http://www.strike-the-root.com/52/herman/herman22.html

    nevermind the fact that FDR also sent tons of Japanese Americans to internment camps, etc...

    and yet these presidents are considered 'the greatest'...
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    long red wrote:
    Indeed very interesting. I love quasi-scientific surveys.

    I had to chuckle at this. I actually ran across the link in an 'off topic' forum in a Biology forum where I am a homework helper. We aren't much into science stuff there. ;)
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    _outlaw wrote:
    you know, it's funny that I'm the one who has the prove Lincoln WASN'T the 'greatest president of all time', even though no one has proven he WAS yet...

    http://www.strike-the-root.com/52/herman/herman22.html

    nevermind the fact that FDR also sent tons of Japanese Americans to internment camps, etc...

    and yet these presidents are considered 'the greatest'...

    I have no doubt that there are groups of folks that would deem 'the greatest' as 'the worst'. I think the numbers are generalizing popular consensus among historians & the public. This is not to say there are not historians and others that disagree.

    I also found this on the wiki link from that article. Seems that the rankings of liberals vs conservatives are not all that different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents#Liberal_and_conservative_raters
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • cubbieblue82cubbieblue82 Posts: 292
    _outlaw wrote:
    you know, it's funny that I'm the one who has the prove Lincoln WASN'T the 'greatest president of all time', even though no one has proven he WAS yet...

    http://www.strike-the-root.com/52/herman/herman22.html

    nevermind the fact that FDR also sent tons of Japanese Americans to internment camps, etc...

    and yet these presidents are considered 'the greatest'...

    What then is your definition of a "great" president?

    FDR pulled this country out of the great depression and led the US through the majority of WWII. Yes the internment camps were a horrible injustice, but we are still reaping the benefits of many of the social programs that FDR created while in office. His popularity over such a long period of time alone, I think signifies his greatness.

    Lincoln did take drastic steps in terms of imposing martial law during the Civil War, but he managed to reunite this country when half of our nation had split away. Have you noticed that we have stayed together since?
    Obama/Biden '08!!!
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    _outlaw wrote:
    you know, it's funny that I'm the one who has the prove Lincoln WASN'T the 'greatest president of all time', even though no one has proven he WAS yet...

    To be honest, I'm not sure what you want. Which of the thousands of books, articles, websites, interviews, etc. would convince you that the overwhelming majority of the country considers Lincoln one of our most famous and greatest presidents? I mean, what would convince you?

    I think personal thoughts on Presidents are fine, but it's hard to dismiss the overwhelming public approval of Lincoln. I have a similar thing with Andrew Jackson; I think he's one of the worst Presidents in American history, but I do know that there are tons of people, maybe even a majority that think he was great.
  • catch22catch22 Posts: 1,081
    baraka wrote:
    I have no doubt that there are groups of folks that would deem 'the greatest' as 'the worst'. I think the numbers are generalizing popular consensus among historians & the public. This is not to say there are not historians and others that disagree.

    I also found this on the wiki link from that article. Seems that the rankings of liberals vs conservatives are not all that different. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents#Liberal_and_conservative_raters

    that survey was done in 1982. i'd be very curious to see a more recent one. a lot has changed in that time.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    catch22 wrote:
    that survey was done in 1982. i'd be very curious to see a more recent one. a lot has changed in that time.

    Yeah, I would be curious as well. I think there would be shifts in the presidential rankings due to how we view history today and I think this view changes over time.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    cubbieblue82 wrote:
    What then is your definition of a "great" president?

    FDR pulled this country out of the great depression and led the US through the majority of WWII. Yes the internment camps were a horrible injustice, but we are still reaping the benefits of many of the social programs that FDR created while in office. His popularity over such a long period of time alone, I think signifies his greatness.

    Lincoln did take drastic steps in terms of imposing martial law during the Civil War, but he managed to reunite this country when half of our nation had split away. Have you noticed that we have stayed together since?
    FDR lessened the effects of the Depression, he did not lead us out of the Great Depression....Japanese bombs were the final cure for that malady. Don't forget FDR's attempt to pack the Supreme Court as President....and some people have a problem with his pre-war aid to Great Britain and the Soviet Union.

    Lincoln did not get to unite the country....Boothe ruined that and screwed the South with his move. Andrew Johnson and the hawks got to milk the South for every dime, nickel and penny that they could over the next decade.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    digster wrote:
    To be honest, I'm not sure what you want. Which of the thousands of books, articles, websites, interviews, etc. would convince you that the overwhelming majority of the country considers Lincoln one of our most famous and greatest presidents? I mean, what would convince you?

    I think personal thoughts on Presidents are fine, but it's hard to dismiss the overwhelming public approval of Lincoln. I have a similar thing with Andrew Jackson; I think he's one of the worst Presidents in American history, but I do know that there are tons of people, maybe even a majority that think he was great.
    Folks like Andrew Jackson present a problem because he was strictly a man of his times....when project our modern and possibly more enlightened values on people that lived 200 years prior....they usually come up short in our eyes.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    tybird wrote:
    Folks like Andrew Jackson present a problem because he was strictly a man of his times....when project our modern and possibly more enlightened values on people that lived 200 years prior....they usually come up short in our eyes.
    digster wrote:
    I have a similar thing with Andrew Jackson; I think he's one of the worst Presidents in American history, but I do know that there are tons of people, maybe even a majority that think he was great.

    It appears that different historians use different criteria when determining the best & worst. But the same usual suspects seems to rise to the top or fall to the bottom.

    As far as your comment, tybird, I read earlier about a historian that uses 2 criteria to determine the worst, one being 'damage done' and the other being something called the 'Kuklick yardstick'. That means a president is only as good as the opinion of the people he served. In other words viewing the presidency strictly from within its time.

    In the same article, one conservative historian has the same opinion as you about Andrew Jackson, digster. He considered him bottom tier due to 'destroying the fiscal integrity of the US'.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • dmitrydmitry Posts: 136
    The list looks upside down.
  • catch22catch22 Posts: 1,081
    baraka wrote:
    Yeah, I would be curious as well. I think there would be shifts in the presidential rankings due to how we view history today and I think this view changes over time.

    im willing to bet anything that clinton and reagan would both be absurdly overrated by their respective wings. things in the last 20 years seem to have gotten so bitterly partisan and divisive that i bet those lists no longer look anything like each other. plus, the pc movement has probably rocked the boat. all the presidents had dirt that used to be overlooked. jackson, for instance, was high on both lists but his racism and war on native americans has tarnished that.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    catch22 wrote:
    im willing to bet anything that clinton and reagan would both be absurdly overrated by their respective wings. things in the last 20 years seem to have gotten so bitterly partisan and divisive that i bet those lists no longer look anything like each other. plus, the pc movement has probably rocked the boat. all the presidents had dirt that used to be overlooked. jackson, for instance, was high on both lists but his racism and war on native americans has tarnished that.
    Goes back to my point about injecting modern values onto historical figures.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
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