David Ray Griffin's Debunking 9/11 Debunking

walkthamilewalkthamile Posts: 349
edited October 2007 in A Moving Train
The 9/11 truth movement is looking pretty ominous at his point...

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/10/08/01871.html

Seriously, there needs to be an independent investigation...for or against the official story, some more questions need to be answered...
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Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    The offical story isn't gospel, some people just treat it as if it is. I read of one guy who worked on the report who doesn't agree that NIST's report is 100% correct.

    But then none of them were allowed to conduct the investigations properly so it would be hard to come up with the truth.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    people are not prepared to accept an alternative reality ... opening one's mind to the plausability of an inside job means opening a reality they aren't prepared to face ...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris wrote:
    people are not prepared to accept an alternative reality ... opening one's mind to the plausability of an inside job means opening a reality they aren't prepared to face ...

    of course people are open to alternative realities. but just because someone says monkeys will fly out of their ass doesnt mean I should be open to the idea that its reality. I took time to consider it, but I know its not true.

    people like you need to understand that just because our government failed to stop 9/11 from happening doesnt automatically mean they were in on it.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    of course people are open to alternative realities. but just because someone says monkeys will fly out of their ass doesnt mean I should be open to the idea that its reality. I took time to consider it, but I know its not true.

    people like you need to understand that just because our government failed to stop 9/11 from happening doesnt automatically mean they were in on it.

    Do you believe popular mechnics and things of that ilk or do think it needs to be reinvestigated independently away from the goverment?
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    Even after my book appeared, Popular Mechanics continued to claim, on the basis of very weak evidence, that high-altitude cell phone calls were indeed possible (see the History Channel special, “9/11 Conspiracies: Fact or Fiction”). However, as I reported in the Revised and Updated Edition of my book, the FBI had in 2006 presented, as evidence in the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui (sometimes called “the 20th hijacker”), a report on phone calls from the four airliners. According to this report, there were only two cell phone calls from United 93, and they were made at 9:58, shortly before the plane crashed, when it was down to 5,000 feet. When the FBI had to present evidence in a court of law, therefore, it would not claim that any high-altitude cell phone calls had occurred. (These two low-altitude calls from Flight 93 were, according to the FBI report, the only two cell phone calls made from all four flights).

    This bit is interesting.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    polaris wrote:
    people are not prepared to accept an alternative reality ... opening one's mind to the plausability of an inside job means opening a reality they aren't prepared to face ...


    or visa versa.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    jlew24asu wrote:
    of course people are open to alternative realities. but just because someone says monkeys will fly out of their ass doesnt mean I should be open to the idea that its reality. I took time to consider it, but I know its not true.

    people like you need to understand that just because our government failed to stop 9/11 from happening doesnt automatically mean they were in on it.

    what did you mean by took time? did you actually read all the counter arguments such as the one presented by this author?

    if you think people like me think 9/11 was an inside job because the gov't failed to stop it - it would explain why you don't understand people like me ...

    it never has nor will be that simple ... there is lots to filter and interpret ...
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Do you believe popular mechnics and things of that ilk or do think it needs to be reinvestigated independently away from the goverment?

    popular mechanics isnt a government run entity. it shouldnt be automatically discredited because some distant relative of bush used to work there.

    and yes there are some indisputable facts from the report. and yes lets reinvestigate it to death. people like you will still never believe it unless it comes from the mouth of alex jones, so what does it matter
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    or visa versa.

    what is vice versa?
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    polaris wrote:
    what is vice versa?

    are you serious?

    http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/vice-versa.html
  • 9/11 is so 2001
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    popular mechanics isnt a government run entity. it shouldnt be automatically discredited because some distant relative of bush used to work there.

    and yes there are some indisputable facts from the report. and yes lets reinvestigate it to death. people like you will still never believe it unless it comes from the mouth of alex jones, so what does it matter

    I can't just ask you a question without you throwing a little digin, can i.

    I didn't mean popular mechnics is a goverment entity they are a magazine and they hold no water with me as they have been proved to lie.

    What has alex jones got to do with anything i said? I was mearly asking if you thought a reinvestigation was worthy, do you just ignore the facts that the investigation's by NIST and FEMA were not conducted properly?

    Hell if people have spoken out that were involved in these investigations and have said that this or that wasn't right are they now to be ignored because you are comfortable with incomplete reports?

    Oh that version will do even though it's not true, it's easy to swallow, i like it so i'll stick with it.

    I mean come on what i linked to above was interesting the phone calls could not have been made and indeed were not used as evidence in court doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit?

    I would like to see reinvestigation by people with no connection the bush administration.

    Do you ever read counter arguments? And i'm not talking alex jones either.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    jlew24asu wrote:

    i meant what is vice-versa to seeing an alternative reality ... i spelt it correctly vs. what paco wrote - i know what it means ...
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    So who is going to debunk the debunking of the debunking?
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • onelongsongonelongsong Posts: 3,517
    The 9/11 truth movement is looking pretty ominous at his point...

    http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/10/08/01871.html

    Seriously, there needs to be an independent investigation...for or against the official story, some more questions need to be answered...

    the official report is based on evidence admissable in court. evidence that is real. 6 years later no one has submitted any evidence to the contrary. we've all seen manufactured evidence but we have to remember; whatever evidence being brought to the table must be admissable in court. those are the rules we play by.
  • I've run the full gambit on it. From A - Z. Every angle.

    Some people automatically insist they know what I believe, probably because they like to label things, or over organize their sock drawers of something.

    The biggest crime ever committed in North America, and it was all whisked away asap to be melted down or buried (body parts included).

    In any event, the original investigation is badly lacking in some very key areas.
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

    http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg

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  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    spiral out wrote:
    I can't just ask you a question without you throwing a little digin, can i.

    I didn't mean popular mechnics is a goverment entity they are a magazine and they hold no water with me as they have been proved to lie.

    What has alex jones got to do with anything i said? I was mearly asking if you thought a reinvestigation was worthy, do you just ignore the facts that the investigation's by NIST and FEMA were not conducted properly?

    Hell if people have spoken out that were involved in these investigations and have said that this or that wasn't right are they now to be ignored because you are comfortable with incomplete reports?

    Oh that version will do even though it's not true, it's easy to swallow, i like it so i'll stick with it.

    I mean come on what i linked to above was interesting the phone calls could not have been made and indeed were not used as evidence in court doesn't that make you wonder just a little bit?

    I would like to see reinvestigation by people with no connection the bush administration.

    Do you ever read counter arguments? And i'm not talking alex jones either.

    they could have 6 different independent investigations and every single one would come up with different theories and interpretations and analyses of the evidence. and people would find flaws with all of them. it would accomplish nothing except an extravagant waste of money. the investigation was shoddily done becos people were trying to cover their asses for gross negligence in their duties. but the gist of the story seems eminently credible to me. those who fucked up know what they did and will respond. the rest of us just want a more satisfying and dramatic conclusion in keeping with out addiction to such stories in our pop culture... james bond, jason bourne, aliens, area 51, big foot, etc.

    i believe the us shot down flight 93 and the rebellion was a feel good hero story that was fabricated. i believe there were egregious lapses in our defense agencies. but i do not believe that the government could have pulled off a huge inside job and blown up the buildings themselves with no one being the wiser as a means to get oil. it's a plot so thin as to stretch the credibility of anything but an m night shalayn movie.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118

    i believe the us shot down flight 93 and the rebellion was a feel good hero story that was fabricated.

    how do you explain the phone recordings from the passengers on board that said they were getting ready to rush the cockpit?

    if a missile from a f-16 shot the plane it would have been blown to pieces. so how did a crater, in the shape of a plane, appear in the ground?

    I also don't believe there would be an reason to deny or hide the fact that it was shot down. the government would have more to gain then lose by telling the truth. I think Americans would happily accept that we did shoot it down in order to save the possibility of the capitol building or white house being hit. killing hundreds or thousands more.
    i believe there were egregious lapses in our defense agencies. but i do not believe that the government could have pulled off a huge inside job and blown up the buildings themselves with no one being the wiser as a means to get oil. it's a plot so thin as to stretch the credibility of anything but an m night shalayn movie.

    agree 100%
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    jlew24asu wrote:
    if a missile from a f-16 shot the plane it would have been blown to pieces. so how did a crater, in the shape of a plane, appear in the ground?


    You must have better missiles then those Russians did when they brought down the Korean airliner, as that was still intact when it went to the sea.

    A lot of firsts that day I see. The builidings, new weapons that blow a airliner to bits. Yeah!
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • NMyTreeNMyTree Posts: 2,374
    I want to debunk the debunkers who are debunking the debunkers. Oh man, my head is spinnning.

    Did I say that right?

    I need a nap:D
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    NMyTree wrote:
    I want to debunk the debunkers who are debunking the debunkers.

    If you do that, I shall debunk you.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.

  • i believe the us shot down flight 93 and the rebellion was a feel good hero story that was fabricated. i believe there were egregious lapses in our defense agencies. but i do not believe that the government could have pulled off a huge inside job and blown up the buildings themselves with no one being the wiser as a means to get oil. it's a plot so thin as to stretch the credibility of anything but an m night shalayn movie.

    thank you. Rare to see so much common sense about this issue on this board.
  • they could have 6 different independent investigations and every single one would come up with different theories and interpretations and analyses of the evidence. and people would find flaws with all of them. it would accomplish nothing except an extravagant waste of money. the investigation was shoddily done becos people were trying to cover their asses for gross negligence in their duties. but the gist of the story seems eminently credible to me. those who fucked up know what they did and will respond. the rest of us just want a more satisfying and dramatic conclusion in keeping with out addiction to such stories in our pop culture... james bond, jason bourne, aliens, area 51, big foot, etc.

    i believe the us shot down flight 93 and the rebellion was a feel good hero story that was fabricated. i believe there were egregious lapses in our defense agencies. but i do not believe that the government could have pulled off a huge inside job and blown up the buildings themselves with no one being the wiser as a means to get oil. it's a plot so thin as to stretch the credibility of anything but an m night shalayn movie.

    one thing that bugs me about the whole "the gov't blew up the towers" statement: why have planes fly into the buildings, just to blow them up later in the morning? why not just blow up the buildings and tell the public "someone must have planted bombs to destroy the buildings." it's not like that hasn't happened before, in '93. crashing planes into buildings you're going to blow up just doesn't make any sense to me.
    "Have you ever.........pooped a balloon?"
    ~D.K.S.
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    one thing that bugs me about the whole "the gov't blew up the towers" statement: why have planes fly into the buildings, just to blow them up later in the morning? why not just blow up the buildings and tell the public "someone must have planted bombs to destroy the buildings." it's not like that hasn't happened before, in '93. crashing planes into buildings you're going to blow up just doesn't make any sense to me.

    Yes but that way no one will believe they were blown up.

    Because that would beg the question of how could a bunch of terists get in to wire them all up unoticed.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    spiral out wrote:
    Yes but that way no one will believe they were blown up.

    Because that would beg the question of how could a bunch of terists get in to wire them all up unoticed.


    Well if they could get tailed all the way around the world and then suddenly get lost in the USA. With an inept security department, anything is possible.

    Planes add to the visual needed to sell the package.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    spiral out wrote:
    Yes but that way no one will believe they were blown up.

    Because that would beg the question of how could a bunch of terists get in to wire them all up unoticed.

    but you already believe someone planted bombs throughout both buildings. apparently that went unnoticed????
  • spiral outspiral out Posts: 1,052
    jlew24asu wrote:
    but you already believe someone planted bombs throughout both buildings. apparently that went unnoticed????

    I didn't say i believe that jlew so not sure what your point it.
    Keep on rockin in the free world!!!!

    The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
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