Explain to me how socialized healthcare could work in America?
Bu$chlager
Posts: 498
America is:
Really, really big. (365 Million deep)
A very unhealthy nation. We smoke, drink, and eat A LOT. Overwhelming majority of people are not in good shape, and alarming percentages are considered obese/morbidly obese. Like 60 -65%. Then there's the percentage of us who use and/or are addicted to illegal drugs.
America is:
Over-prescribed to the gills. We see doctors for everything. From the sniffles, to little Johnny not paying attention in school, and everything else imaginable, we are seeing a physician to give us drugs. You can't watch TV for more than 15-20 minutes without seeing a commercial that is asking you to see a doctor if you suffer from any of a gazillion symptoms. We are actually told on TV to schedule doctors appointments to go tell a doctor what drugs he should prescribe us! ("Ask your Dr. if _______ is right for you.") What's that degree for anyways??
America is:
Impatient. We don't like to wait for anything.
America is:
Run by a government that is beaurocracy on steroids. It's slow, it's inefficent, and it's paperwork ridden to the point of insanity. We hate having to get a passport, visit the IRS, or make a trip to the DMV. When we absolutely have to, it usually results in needing to take an entire day off from work to ensure you can have a successful visit. And even then you're taking a chance.
Now considering all this, how is socialized medicine supposed to work?
I know the system now is flawed, and I am all for increased government oversight over these private pharmacuetical companies, etc. The markup on some drugs is sickening. And obviously insurance should be easier and cheaper to acquire. Tax deductable as well.
But the idea that we can somehow universally adopt a socialized system in America seems crazy. It just flat out wouldn't work, and I could see it becoming very chaotic. What may work for the UK or Canada could be disasterous here, regardless of how comparable Mike Moore thinks the countires and their citizens are.
What do you think?
Really, really big. (365 Million deep)
A very unhealthy nation. We smoke, drink, and eat A LOT. Overwhelming majority of people are not in good shape, and alarming percentages are considered obese/morbidly obese. Like 60 -65%. Then there's the percentage of us who use and/or are addicted to illegal drugs.
America is:
Over-prescribed to the gills. We see doctors for everything. From the sniffles, to little Johnny not paying attention in school, and everything else imaginable, we are seeing a physician to give us drugs. You can't watch TV for more than 15-20 minutes without seeing a commercial that is asking you to see a doctor if you suffer from any of a gazillion symptoms. We are actually told on TV to schedule doctors appointments to go tell a doctor what drugs he should prescribe us! ("Ask your Dr. if _______ is right for you.") What's that degree for anyways??
America is:
Impatient. We don't like to wait for anything.
America is:
Run by a government that is beaurocracy on steroids. It's slow, it's inefficent, and it's paperwork ridden to the point of insanity. We hate having to get a passport, visit the IRS, or make a trip to the DMV. When we absolutely have to, it usually results in needing to take an entire day off from work to ensure you can have a successful visit. And even then you're taking a chance.
Now considering all this, how is socialized medicine supposed to work?
I know the system now is flawed, and I am all for increased government oversight over these private pharmacuetical companies, etc. The markup on some drugs is sickening. And obviously insurance should be easier and cheaper to acquire. Tax deductable as well.
But the idea that we can somehow universally adopt a socialized system in America seems crazy. It just flat out wouldn't work, and I could see it becoming very chaotic. What may work for the UK or Canada could be disasterous here, regardless of how comparable Mike Moore thinks the countires and their citizens are.
What do you think?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
You are talking about the people that actually HAVE insurance.
That's the issue.
We have enough money to sustain this expensive meaningless war for years and years......but we can't get every American healthcare?
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula. 5-10-2024 Portland. 5-30-2024 Seattle.
I just saw somwhere that the Iraq war is now about to cost the U.S. gov't about $1.4 TRILLION over a certain period of time. I believe that's on top of the annual $500 billion/yr on regular military spending. So financially its possible to do if you reprioritize your values. And speaking of values, the idea of something being socialized simply means, inter alia, that something should be an inalienable right of every human being. How could you deny PROPER health care (I'm not talking about tokenism here) to any human being. Shouldn't that be the very least that a society could manage for its citizens ?!
The u.S. often touts itself as a very advanced country. I would argue that it is instead a very harsh, violent and selfish country.
We are a very, very advanced country.
Absolutely no one, even if you are here illegaly, is denied healthcare.
I have to agree that basic healthcare is the right of everyone to possess and should not goto those that have money. Some need to stop looking at the issue as "I don't want my hard earned cash helping out other lazy people". That is the most cynical outlook on the entire situation.
There is no way possible for everyone in the USA to have a job that will provide them with the best health care money can buy...it is impossible...the entire the political system is devised to have classes (just based on the obvious that we can not all have high paying jobs...there will be CEO's and Presidents and there will be McDonald staff and janitors).
The reason that a socialized system will not work in the USA is because of greed and serious misconceptions about the matter. To not protect your citizens with basic right to live healthy is absurd.
Also to those who may be wondering I as a Canadian citizen pay less in tax towards healthcare than the common Americans best health insurance policy and unlike America I can go see a doctor and not have to deal with the insurance company giving me the run around or telling me who I have to see. Our system is not perfect by any means but sure the hell is miles ahead (as shown through many stuides) than the American style system which is beyond flawed. I have no problems having my tax dollars help someone out (regardless of the small % of the populcae who is indeed lazy).
For those that worry about losing a minute % of their average American wage pay cheque think about those that work near the minimum that also have to contribute (which will bite them more in that department). However they will get the basic needs that everyone requires and I honestly do believe that it will lead to a better society. But I will say it again the perception of universal health care is so construed it will most likely not happen.
Funny thing that a large populace who will fight tooth and nail to see an abortion not performed but will be the first people to deny this person healthcare straight from the womb. A society that cares more for a zygote (and please do not harp on me I believe in choice and I also know I would never be for an abortion if I was involved) than those that are living in the present.
The way it has been waged is undoubtedly regrettable, however the war on terror is far from meaningless. It's one of the most important of our time.
And you could always make arguements about that with regards to schools and hospitals. We're gonna maintain an obnoxiously dominant military, like it or not. That's gonna come at a price, as is war. The idea that these are going to be abandoned whether you agree with them or not is a little "pie in the sky" with all due respect. Not really a workable solution.
Do Canadians have the "best health care money can buy"?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Thats bang on the money some people are just to selfish.
The economy has polarized to the point where the wealthiest 10% now own 85% of the nation’s wealth. Never before have the bottom 90% been so highly indebted, so dependent on the wealthy.
How would they be solved?? There are MANY differences.
What's Canada's population? Is it even 1/10 of the US? It can't be much more than that. That's a lot more people on line.
And what about your patience levels? Most Canadians seem to like their healthcare, yet the average wait times are considerbly higher than US wait times. Like days compared to hours for some procedures which is why many Canadians come here in emergency situations. But for standard office visits Canadians apparently are a more patient society. That's not gonna fly here. Again, look how outraged people get at Passport & DMV offices.
firstly - i think you're right ... socialized medicine as you put it can't work in the US ... you're just not that type of society - it's more of every person for themselves down there so without a general buy in from the populace at large - it is destined to fail ... this is not even factoring the fact private insurance and pharmaceutical companies would never let it happen.
secondly - in Canada, we do have problems ... much of it is because of the severe underfunding of the programs done by previous gov'ts ... this in turn essentially "broke" the system ... making options like out of home (US) and privatization look "better" ... for nationalized health care to work - we can't put the interests of big companies first and people second ... that is what is happening here - hence it's disintegration ... it's not to say - it can't be fixed or isn't what is truly the ideal ...
Step One: Completely eliminate HMO's. They're just a profit machine, period. There is no other use for them except to provide a more efficient way to generate profits for Insurance Companies and Medical Providers.
Step Two: Most of our health issues can be solved by lifestyle changes. Folks that refuse to work on or change their lifestyles charge them more for the service. Period. This is a shitty way to look at it, but the first way to destroy a system is let the minority that abuse it and take advantage of it get away with it. Make them pay more. I'm not completely healthy, but I'm not comfortable paying for someone with high cholesterol, weighs 400 pounds, does zero exercise, smokes, and then drinks diet coke. But I have no problem sharing in the responsibility of a child that has high med costs due to unforeseen problems, or the fact that older folks have health issues that need attention. I feel obligated and honored to share in that responisibility, but i have no mercy or sympathy for someone who does nothing and is lazy.
Step Three: Revamp universities to teach preventative health, lifestyle choice, and slowly weening our dependence on Pharma. There's a fucking drug for everything, but nothing works, because we continue to be less healthy. Fuck em.
Step Four: Start outlawing certain foods or put better guidelines on them. If pot is illegal shouldn't McDonalds be. I know which one is worse for you.
Step Five: (MOST CRITICAL) Have case workers (motivated) work with folks on their health so doctors don't have to. They have better shit to worry about. (not their cholesterol being high, fuck we know the reason). Provide these case workers bonuses for their clients goals that are met, exceeded, and maintained. This will eliminate 30-40% of medical problems if things are done right. These are your field experts (in health and nutrition) and troops. This will eliminate much of a doctor's responsibilities revolving around health related issues, not medical issues. If their compensated well they'll do well, you get what you pay for. You pay em shitty, you'll get shitty results.
Step Six: Cut RED TAPE. Use a half-ass modern database to keep up with people's medical issues. I understand this is a privacy issue. There need to be large steps taken to insure privacy, e.g. access for the person whose records are to see who accesses them (almost like credit reports). The benefits far outweight the negatives. Also, if HMO's, insurance companies, etc are marginalized with how much power they exercise what is there to hide anyway. Who would you be hiding it from, especially when you know who accesses it and can charge and prosecute those that access it illegally.
Step Seven: Set a limit on the number of patients a doctor can have. There's no way a doctor can legitimately do good work for 5000 patients, but they have to now. The above steps should help this due to elimination of HMO's, Certain Insurance Companies, and field nutrition workers. DOCTORS would love this by the way, all the doctors I know have too many patients, and want less, but can't produce a sustainable business model due to their cut on HMO and Medicare patients. This will give doctors some autonomy on who they want to work with.
These are ideas to make it work, some are far fetched and could never be implemented, but damnit if I ran the country this is what I would do. Plus, without ideas there's no starting place.
EV
That's only if you're going directly to the ER. And even that isn't a guarantee.
all posts by ©gue_barium are protected under US copyright law and are not to be reproduced, exchanged or sold
except by express written permission of ©gue_barium, the author.
National Healthcare covers only:
Basic Healthcare - Annual check-ups, physicals, flu-shots, basic Wellness Education.
(Dental, Vision care... you're on your own, although you can purchase basic coverage from the government (dental check-ups, teeth cleaning...etc...)
...
Those of us that work and buy into current plans from our employers... people such as self-employed can purchase add-ons as they please.
...
Yeah, the big ticket items will big long waits for those without supplemental insurance... but, a guy like me... working for a giant corporation... our insurance from work covers us
...
Oh... and Doctors... quit passing out the drugs.
Hail, Hail!!!
http://www.amsa.org/uhc/theories.cfm
—Dorothy Parker
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6902/conspiracytheoriesxt6qt8.jpg