we must raise taxes.

stupidcorporatewhore

sorry guys but it's true.

no one trying to elected would dare speak of it but they all know it's gotta happen.

my eight year old niece knows the basic principals of a checkbook...

If you spend more money than you bring in, you're in overdraft

any questions?

jlew24asu

cut spending is the better solution. and cutting taxes can also increase government revenue.

Cosmo

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

sorry guys but it's true.

no one trying to elected would dare speak of it but they all know it's gotta happen.

my eight year old niece knows the basic principals of a checkbook...

If you spend more money than you bring in, you're in overdraft

any questions?

...
I agree. It's not the taxes that's the problem.. it's the SPENDING. How about cutting the recent 20 billion dollars in Arms to the Middle East and spend it on preventative health care so your kid doesn't run the risk of catching the flu at the Mall?
And there is almost 1 trillion dollars in War funds that we are passing down to our kids (and their kids). Where is the personal responsibility I always hear about? This is OUR generation's war. If we want it... we should have to pay for it.

DPrival78

or would could ditch the federal reserve and switch to a currency that isn't debt-based, and whose issuance isn't controlled behind closed doors by a bunch of unelected bankers.

colonial scrip, anyone?

stupidcorporatewhore

jlew24asu wrote:

cut spending is the better solution.

yes, also smarter spending.

jlew24asu wrote:

and cutting taxes can also increase government revenue.

I'm skeptical about this theory

I think people are more conservative spenders in a crisis. more likely to save it and not re circulate it.

sacrifice is coming. the question is whether the sacrifice will be voluntary or manditory

farfromglorified

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

sorry guys but it's true.

no one trying to elected would dare speak of it but they all know it's gotta happen.

my eight year old niece knows the basic principals of a checkbook...

If you spend more money than you bring in, you're in overdraft

any questions?

I have a question: If your entire thesis is that the money I've given to the government has been mismanaged by people with less financial knowledge than your eight year old neice, why in the world would you then suggest I should give them more money?

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

the question is whether the sacrifice will be voluntary or manditory

That sounds more like a threat than a question.

fanch75

farfromglorified wrote:

I have a question: If your entire thesis is that the money I've given to the government has been mismanged by people with less financial knowledge than your eight year old neice, why in the world would you then suggest I should give them more money?

Wow. Ding ding ding ding!

jeffbr

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

If you spend more money than you bring in, you're in overdraft

I completely agree with you about this problem. I completely disagree with you about the solution. The answer to FFG's question may prove enlightening.

puremagic

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

sorry guys but it's true.

no one trying to elected would dare speak of it but they all know it's gotta happen.

my eight year old niece knows the basic principals of a checkbook...

If you spend more money than you bring in, you're in overdraft

any questions?

I didn't agree to have my government waste money on a continuing "civil war".

I didn't agree to have my government waste money on contractors who defaulted on their contracts.

I didn't agree to have my government send millions of dollars IN CASH to a foreign country and have it get LOST.

I didn't agree to have my government pour billions of dollars into worthless security and military equipment while still counting the dead and dying.

I didn't agree to have my government pour millions of dollars into killers for hire contractors under the protection of the U.S. flag.

I didn't agree to have my government spend millions of dollars on homeland security only to watch a U.S. city go without help, to watch border patrols go on trial for doing their job, to watch airport security be reduced to 2 oz. bottles, while prices rose and delays reached 6 to 8 hours.

I didn't agree to have my government spend millions of dollars on homeland security only to watch super prision to house 5 people get built as a payback to a State senator, while our shipping ports and railways remain easy targets.

What you fail to realize is that the poor, the needy and your 8 year old niece, aren't paying taxes. Where are these increase taxes coming from, surely not the wealthy. It is the middle class families, the single person, couples, college student workers, etc. These are the people who will feel the burden of the needed increased taxes and spending cuts. The very people who are being laid off due to corporate restructure, outsourcing, NATFA, and automation. The same day Bush announced his stimulus package, which has NOT taken effect yet, prices on basic items, milk, bread, butter, cheese, peanut butter, water, soap, toilet paper, etc. went up a couple of pennies. Doesn't seem like much, but just think, that $800 is a one-time check. Those prices that jumped a couple of pennies are long term, they won't decrease, they will only increase. Just like at the gas pump, when prices went down, no one seemed to take notice or bitch about the fact that their utility bills were edging up and they haven't gone down. States are already talking tax increases, spending cuts, reduction of services, and increase cost for services.

Get back some that wasted money from these corporations and friendly people or release some of the billions and billions of dollars seized from Iraq. Surely America's sacrific was worth more than $800 and a 3/4 rate cut.

dangerboy

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

yes, also smarter spending.



I'm skeptical about this theory

I think people are more conservative spenders in a crisis. more likely to save it and not re circulate it.

sacrifice is coming. the question is whether the sacrifice will be voluntary or manditory

you can be skeptical if you like, but the evidence is there that says it has happened. kennedy. reagan. and yes, even the evil genius/village idiot gwb.

stupidcorporatewhore

farfromglorified wrote:

I have a question: If your entire thesis is that the money I've given to the government has been mismanaged by people with less financial knowledge than your eight year old neice, why in the world would you then suggest I should give them more money?

Because we are spending more than we are taking in. we must take in more.

we're not living in some fantasy world where we can continue to operate in a deficit. something has to give. we have to pull the plug on iraq, cut military spending (the budget of which is roughly the amount of every countries budget on the planet COMBINED) Ask corporations to pay their fair share etc tax the rich harder. spend the money smarter.

just a thought, the last democrat that was president balanced the budget and built a surplus. Electing a democrat and somebody who gives a shit about someone else other than the wealthy might be a good start.

farfromglorified wrote:

That sounds more like a threat than a question.

people in 1931 probably thought the same thing

VINNY GOOMBA

Stop spending money completely out of control, and taxes DO NOT have to be raised.

farfromglorified

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

Because we are spending more than we are taking in. we must take in more.

No. You should spend less. If your 8 year old neice comes to you and says "I just bought 15,000 lollipops on your credit card", do you hand her another credit card????

we're not living in some fantasy world where we can continue to operate in a deficit. something has to give. we have to pull the plug on iraq, cut military spending (the budget of which is roughly the amount of every countries budget on the planet COMBINED) Ask corporations to pay their fair share etc tax the rich harder. spend the money smarter.

If you want to talk "fair share", you might try looking at the 44% of American citizens who pay nothing. Please spare this "fair share" crap until you'll address that population. The rich already pay 95% of your taxes.

just a thought, the last democrat that was president balanced the budget and built a surplus. Electing a democrat might be a good start

It might be a great start! Or it might be a complete debacle. Neither party has demonstrated that it can spend money wisely or collect it based on non-aggression.

people in 1931 probably thought the same thing

I'm sure they did. You didn't pay any attention to them then. Now look at you...demanding more.

jlew24asu

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

just a thought, the last democrat that was president balanced the budget and built a surplus. Electing a democrat and somebody who gives a shit about someone else other than the wealthy might be a good start.

clinton did not have to deal with 9/11 and the wars that followed. didnt have a katrina to pay for, and was president during the largest stock market boom in the history of the world. he was lucky, not a financial genius.

with that said, bush and all of congress could be spending money much more efficiently. I'm not defending bush but you seem to think it was clinton who was responsible for a surplus.

Kel Varnsen

puremagic wrote:

What you fail to realize is that the poor, the needy and your 8 year old niece, aren't paying taxes. Where are these increase taxes coming from, surely not the wealthy. It is the middle class families, the single person, couples, college student workers, etc. These are the people who will feel the burden of the needed increased taxes and spending cuts. The very people who are being laid off due to corporate restructure, outsourcing, NATFA, and automation. The same day Bush announced his stimulus package, which has NOT taken effect yet, prices on basic items, milk, bread, butter, cheese, peanut butter, water, soap, toilet paper, etc. went up a couple of pennies. Doesn't seem like much, but just think, that $800 is a one-time check. Those prices that jumped a couple of pennies are long term, they won't decrease, they will only increase. Just like at the gas pump, when prices went down, no one seemed to take notice or bitch about the fact that their utility bills were edging up and they haven't gone down. States are already talking tax increases, spending cuts, reduction of services, and increase cost for services.

I think it is hilarious when American's complain about being taxed too heavily. Isn't the income tax rate there something like 15%. Plus in most states there is little or no sales tax (and there is definetly no national sales tax). Taxes in Canada are way higher, and yes we have health care to pay for, but we also have a federal government that has ran a surplus for the last at least 10 years.

farfromglorified

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I think it is hilarious when American's complain about being taxed too heavily.

Hehe...so you approve of purse snatchers as opposed to bank robbers?

stupidcorporatewhore

farfromglorified wrote:

No. You should spend less. If your 8 year old neice comes to you and says "I just bought 15,000 lollipops on your credit card", do you hand her another credit card????

no, I tell her to go borrow some money from the chinese, putting her childrens future in jeopardy

farfromglorified wrote:

If you want to talk "fair share", you might try looking at the 44% of American citizens who pay nothing.The rich already pay 95% of your taxes.

facts please, who is that 44%? I want to be part of that group. Not that's it's any of your business, but I am in a pretty high tax bracket (just not high enough to enjoy the shrub tax breaks).

my heart is just breaking for the rich btw.

farfromglorified wrote:

It might be a great start! Or it might be a complete debacle. Neither party has demonstrated that it can spend money wisely or collect it based on non-aggression.

only one party has been at the helm of the biggest deficit in history.

farfromglorified wrote:

I'm sure they did. You didn't pay any attention to them then. Now look at you...demanding more.

I wasn't alive in 1931 and I'm not demanding anything. I'm just getting discussion going so lighten up. I'd like to elect a few of the people who have contributed to this thread.

farfromglorified

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

no, I tell her to go borrow some money from the chinese, putting her childrens future in jeopardy

That's quite brilliant.

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to tell her to provide value to someone, through which she might be able to actually pay off her debts without accumulating new ones.

facts please, who is that 44%?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States#Tax_distribution

my heart is just breaking for the rich btw.

I don't care about your heart. I care about your mind. A heart doesn't dictate "fairness". A mind does that.

only one party has been at the helm of the biggest deficit in history.

No, both parties have. Bill Clinton's 18 month surplus during an 8 year presidency isn't really that impressive. Numerous Democratic presidents have been just as fiscally idiotic as their Republican counterparts.

For example, the federal deficit when Bill Clinton took office was $4,100,000,000,000. When he left, it was $5,700,000,000,000. So please stop being so predictably and boringly partisan.

I wasn't alive in 1931 and I'm not demanding anything.

Of course you are. You're demanding others pay additional taxes. If you wanted to pay more taxes yourself, you wouldn't have have put "we" in your thread title.

I'm just getting discussion going so lighten up.

You're not "getting discussion going". You're telling people that "we must raise taxes".

Get_Right

Kel Varnsen wrote:

I think it is hilarious when American's complain about being taxed too heavily. Isn't the income tax rate there something like 15%. Plus in most states there is little or no sales tax (and there is definetly no national sales tax). Taxes in Canada are way higher, and yes we have health care to pay for, but we also have a federal government that has ran a surplus for the last at least 10 years.

um no, its more like 25-38%, and thats just federal
then state
then city (depending on where you live)
then property (if you own)
and then sales tax is 8.25%

I work til frigging april to pay my taxes

End this excessive military spending, cut the fat and tell me when we are having a tea party becuase I think we pay much more in taxes (on a percentage basis) than the colonists did

Get_Right

No, both parties have. Bill Clinton's 18 month surplus during an 8 year presidency isn't really that impressive. Numerous Democratic presidents have been just as fiscally idiotic as their Republican counterparts.


Clintons surplus was impressive because he cleaned up another republican mess and that surplus was the first in many many years

floyd1975

Kel Varnsen wrote:

a federal government that has ran a surplus for the last at least 10 years.

If a government runs a surplus, they are overcharging their citizens for living there.

farfromglorified

Get_Right wrote:

Clintons surplus was impressive because he cleaned up another republican mess and that surplus was the first in many many years

:rolleyes:

Then what about his 6.5 years of deficits? Were those impressive too? Or just Republican shenanigans over which he had no control?

stupidcorporatewhore

farfromglorified wrote:

That's quite brilliant.

Perhaps a better suggestion would be to tell her to provide value to someone, through which she might be able to actually pay off her debts without accumulating new ones.

that's the way it should go, in an ideal America.

unfortunately, we don't live it that America, we live in this one

farfromglorified wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_United_States#Tax_distribution

thanks for that, I found out I'm in the top 5% who knew?

looks like I AM paying!

farfromglorified wrote:

I don't care about your heart. I care about your mind. A heart doesn't dictate "fairness". A mind does that.

http://www.ctj.org/blog/2007/06/buffett-rich-pay-too-little.html

the second richest man has something to say on the matter

farfromglorified wrote:

No, both parties have. Bill Clinton's 18 month surplus during an 8 year presidency isn't really that impressive. Numerous Democratic presidents have been just as fiscally idiotic as their Republican counterparts.

For example, the federal deficit when Bill Clinton took office was $4,100,000,000,000. When he left, it was $5,700,000,000,000. So please stop being so predictably and boringly partisan.

I'll have to do research on the matter and argue with you later.

farfromglorified wrote:

Of course you are. You're demanding others pay additional taxes. If you wanted to pay more taxes yourself, you wouldn't have have put "we" in your thread title.

You're not "getting discussion going". You're telling people that "we must raise taxes".

You and Jiew should get together and have a lovely tea party!

This thread is basically saying, "it's broke. let's fix it."

nothing motivates Americans (especially Republican Americans) faster than if it means parting with money. that goes double if it's to someone less advantaged then them.

So for the record I'm not now nor have I ever actually felt on any level that We should raise taxes before we consider restructure and responsible spending.

A few people on this thread responded like maybe they got what I was driving at.

farfromglorified

stupidcorporatewhore wrote:

that's the way it should go, in an ideal America.

unfortunately, we don't live it that America, we live in this one

Huh???? Your entire premise here is that we can do better than our current reality. And now you're saying "well, we don't live in an ideal America". If that's the case, fuck it, why complain at all??

thanks for that, I found out I'm in the top 5% who knew?

looks like I AM paying!

the second richest man has something to say on the matter

http://www.ctj.org/blog/2007/06/buffett-rich-pay-too-little.html

I find these kind of statements pretty disengenuous. No one is stopping Warren Buffett from paying whatever he wants to the government.

I'll have to do research on the matter and argue with you later.

Ok. I can't wait.

This thread is basically saying, "it's broke. let's fix it."

"that's the way it should go, in an ideal America.

unfortunately, we don't live it that America, we live in this one"

nothing motivates Americans (especially Republican Americans) faster than if it means parting with money. that goes double if it's to someone less advantaged then them.

So for the record I'm not now nor have I ever actually felt on any level that We should raise taxes before we consider restructure and responsible spending.

Ok. Now why isn't this thread titled "we should consider restructured and responsible spending"?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

People in the US are facing some tasty taxes in the future...and their kids...and their kids....etc and so on unless someone start talking common sense.

Currently it's a state of media induced psychosis...

delicious mind-fuckery...

stupidcorporatewhore

farfromglorified wrote:

Ok. Now why isn't this thread titled "we should consider restructured and responsible spending"?

I don't know, why is that William F. Burroughs book called "Naked Lunch"?

It has a complete lack of nudity or food.

Kel Varnsen

floyd1975 wrote:

If a government runs a surplus, they are overcharging their citizens for living there.

Maybe, but given the choice between balanced budget with a surplus at the end of the year and actually running a budget that is in deficit, I would prefer that my government at least attempts to balance the books.

sponger

The government should allow a front page deduction for expenses incurred in the caring of an adopted animal.

floyd1975

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Maybe, but given the choice between balanced budget with a surplus at the end of the year and actually running a budget that is in deficit, I would prefer that my government at least attempts to balance the books.

One year is an accidental surplus. Many years in a row is dishonest overcharging.

macgyver06

stop funding war
stop stripping education



taxes are fine...its just they are gong to foreign places

DriftingByTheStorm

macgyver06 wrote:

stop funding war
stop stripping education



taxes are fine...its just they are gong to foreign places

Ugh.
We must ENCOURAGE stripping education ...

only THEN can we get this country back on track ...
through honest and virtuous enterprise we can rebuff the golden paved streets of this great america.

BUT we MUST support and expand funding for stripping education!