A thread for undecided voters

88keys88keys Posts: 151
edited September 2008 in A Moving Train
I want to hear from any of the undecided voters (like myself) out there who still feel they need to hear more from these candidates to make a decision. Which issues do you feel are most important to this election? What do you think these candidates have to do in order to get your vote? Are you considering a 3rd party candidate? If so, why?

I'll start. I think the most important issues are (in no specific order): the economy, national security, the Iraq/Afghanistan War, and energy dependence (or independence). In my opinion, issue like abortion rights, gun ownership, homosexual rights, stem-cell research, religion, etc. are so much at the bottom of the barrel that I'm not even considering where any of the candidates stand on these issues. They are all noble causes but right now, none of these issues are going to help our country out of the recession it's falling into. I think we need to fix what's wrong with our country's infrastructure right now, then worry about the social issues when there's more stability. I also think that both Obama and McCain have been completely ambiguous about what they plan on doing about fixing some of these kitchen table issues. Right now, the only issues I feel that I am leaning one way on is national security and the Iraq/Afghanistan War. I think McCain has the advantage here with his lifetime of military experience... plus he was the one proponent of the troop surge when it was vastly unpopular and it worked (even Obama has admitted that now). But as for the other issues, neither of these guys have said dick about how they plan to accomplish anything! They're great as telling us what they want to do, but they aren't saying how they're gonna do it! Obama spoke for over a 1/2 hour in his nomination speech and about 5 minutes of it was dedicated to how he's gonna accomplish "change". McCain spoke for almost an hour on his speech and his "straight talk" veered the same way Obama's did. I think these upcoming debates are gonna be the deciding factor for me because they aren't gonna be able to be so ambiguous when they start calling each other out.

P.S. I know that a majority of the people on this forum are Obama supporters... and there are some McCain supporters too. I ask you to please try to keep rhetoric to a minimum and if you really want to help out your candidate of choice, don't spew out the same crap the media and blogosphere has been spoon feeding us (he's got a funny name, she's got a pregnant teen daughter, etc... who cares!). Keep it to the real issues and tell us what you think they're gonna do to remedy them.
Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
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Comments

  • McCain is almost a carbon copy of John Kerry in regards to the war hero, military, and experience stuff. And apparently nobody thought Kerry was good enough to take Bush out of office, so why replace him with this same mentality now?
    "It's all happening"
  • 88keys88keys Posts: 151
    McCain is almost a carbon copy of John Kerry in regards to the war hero, military, and experience stuff. And apparently nobody thought Kerry was good enough to take Bush out of office, so why replace him with this same mentality now?

    Not true... Kerry spent 4 years in the military compared to McCain's 22 years. Kerry was never POW as McCain was for 5 years. That's far from a carbon copy. And I don't think anyone should vote for McCain on his military record alone... it's just an area where I think he has an advantage over Obama.
    Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
  • blondieblue227blondieblue227 Va, USA Posts: 4,509
    Ok, here’s what I think so far. I’m sure it’ll change once I see the debates.

    Obama made too many promises. There’s no way he can deliver all of them.
    Find another way to bash McCain other than saying he’s Bush #2.

    McCain is a war hero. That means we must vote for him. Lame!
    It doesn’t make sense to me why people around him(wife and Sarah) have interest with people with disabilities, but when I hear ‘cut government spending’ I can’t help to assume that means getting rid of programs I need and use. (Yes, I’m disabled. I’m not referring to Social Security checks either)
    *~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*

  • You don't have to vote for either McCain or Obama. There are a lot of third parties out there.
    Nathan
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    You don't have to vote for either McCain or Obama. There are a lot of third parties out there.
    That's the way I'm leaning.....both Veep choices were extremely poor choices in my book....Pallin's environmental views are W. Bush made over and Biden represents what is wrong with his party.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • barakabaraka Posts: 1,268
    tybird wrote:
    Biden represents what is wrong with his party.

    I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on this, tybird. I'm not so sure what to make of Biden myself. Is he the deal breaker for you when it comes to Obama?
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    baraka wrote:
    I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on this, tybird. I'm not so sure what to make of Biden myself. Is he the deal breaker for you when it comes to Obama?
    Yes...he is the deal breaker. He is not a voice for change....he is an old, white, yankee limousine liberal in my opinion...and reeks of the Clintons.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • 88keys88keys Posts: 151
    You don't have to vote for either McCain or Obama. There are a lot of third parties out there.

    I whole-heartedly support anyone who wants to vote third party... or not vote at all. After all, this is our right as Americans. But if you choose to go either route, tell us why.
    Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
  • I'm voting for McCain this time around. I wanted him to win the Rep. primary back in 2000 but didn't turn 18 until July. He has shown he can work with other parties, not something you would see with GWB or Hilary. He hasn't been hard line Rep. for most of his career, and the only reason hes "sucking up" to the Rep. now is for unity going into an election. His military experience has set him a head of any one thats ever run for President, in terms of commanding the Armed Services, besides maybe Ulysses S Grant. But the biggest thing for me is that I agree with most of his views. I did my reading on Obama and Nader in terms of their views, and I don't agree with most of their views.

    Not to insult anyone in particular, but I don't believe half the shit posted on this board as facts, even if they use an obscure website as their source.

    Good thread, its nice to see some thing constructive instead of a propaganda filled, negative rant.
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • i like mccain, i know alot of you guys here dont. but i am pretty pissed at his choice to get palin for VP. i dont know how anyone here in their right mind can conclude that she is ready to be president or ready to be VP, when she admitted herself that she knows nothing about foreign policy. as of now, aside from the ABC interview which will probably be "softball," the mccain camp has kept her under close guard for the next two weeks, prepping her for the big showdown with biden or other more challenging news shows. isnt that disturbing? that she has to be given a crash-course lesson before she is questioned? how much knowledge does she actually have about what's going on in the world? how much time does she have to form her own opinions or will she be just a mouthpiece? and i havent even mentioned her far-right views...its scary.

    i posted in another thread why she was the smart, strategic pick for mccain. it was genius move. and if i was a political analyst, i would give mad props. its paying off, mccain is leading obama in some polls now. but as a voter, i dont know...i think its bull. i know its politics and people say sh*t all the time to get elected but palin and mccain during the convention have been using the whole "country first" line. that mccain "would rather lose the election than lose the war." how can he say that with a straight face with his VP pick? this pick (a brilliant strategic move) was solely made to win an election. so much for country first.

    yeah, i know this is nothing new in politics, the same case can be made for obama and biden, or the clintons. people can bring up sh*t they said during an election and it will bite them in the *ss. i dont know man..its disturbing...
  • It's easy for me.... I vote against the pro-life religious crazies even for mayor of my hometown....

    that's my M.O

    yep
    the Minions
  • His military experience has set him a head of any one thats ever run for President, in terms of commanding the Armed Services, besides maybe Ulysses S Grant.

    You think McCain's military service is greater than Eisenhower's?
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    You think McCain's military service is greater than Eisenhower's?
    Ike was the man in the E.T.O.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • You think McCain's military service is greater than Eisenhower's?

    Shit, I knew I was forgetting someone important. No, Eisenhower had far more experience then McCain. I mean they didn't call him the S.A.C for nothing?
    BRING BACK THE WHALE
  • MattyJoeMattyJoe Posts: 1,424
    but when I hear ‘cut government spending’ I can’t help to assume that means getting rid of programs I need and use. (Yes, I’m disabled. I’m not referring to Social Security checks either)

    That's not correct. What is meant by government spending are all of these obscure government programs which hardly do anything for the majority of Americans but wind up adding up in cost and inflating the budget. Most of these serve only special interest groups. These are the kinds of programs everyone's been talking about getting rid of for years and no one ever seems too interested in doing it once they're in office, Republican or Democrat. One of the things I like about Palin is she has a proven record of cutting unnecessary spending in her home state, which may mean the budget will finally get some relief. Social Security, Welfare, and other important programs (like disabilities programs) are not at all going to be cut. It's the obscure, unnecessary programs that we want to cut, because all they do is over-inflate the budget without much benefit to the average person anyway. It makes no sense to have the government dumping our hard-earned tax dollars into useless programs.
    I pledge to you a government that will not only work well, but wisely, its ability to act tempered by prudence, and its willingness to do good, balanced by the knowledge that government is never more dangerous than when our desire to have it help us blinds us to its great power to harm us.
    -Reagan
  • MattyJoe wrote:
    That's not correct. What is meant by government spending are all of these obscure government programs which hardly do anything for the majority of Americans but wind up adding up in cost and inflating the budget. Most of these serve only special interest groups. These are the kinds of programs everyone's been talking about getting rid of for years and no one ever seems too interested in doing it once they're in office, Republican or Democrat. One of the things I like about Palin is she has a proven record of cutting unnecessary spending in her home state, which may mean the budget will finally get some relief. Social Security, Welfare, and other important programs (like disabilities programs) are not at all going to be cut. It's the obscure, unnecessary programs that we want to cut, because all they do is over-inflate the budget without much benefit to the average person anyway. It makes no sense to have the government dumping our hard-earned tax dollars into useless programs.

    I'm not being argumentative, I'm genuinely interested in your point... What "obscure, unnecessary programs" are we going to cut in order to get this country back on track?
    All the rusted signs, we ignore throughout our lives, choosing the shiny ones instead...

    And he who forgets, will be destined to remember...
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I don't like either McCain or Obama. I'm a Ron Paul guy, and I will more than likely be writing him in.

    I cannot stand Biden but I do like Palin simply because she is the real 'Washington outsider' Obama claims to be but isn't.

    My issues are:

    Illegal Immigration: I want it stopped. I do not support any type of amnesty. I want the anchor baby law repealed. I want business owners to face jail time for employing illegal aliens. I want those that are here following the laws and are of legal staus to quit being screwed around.

    Economy: I'm for abolishing the Fed. I want the estate tax to be declared illegal. I do not support any type of bailout for the mortgage industry. I do not support any bailout for homeowners. The only thing I would like to see if for those who are in ARM's and making their payments to have it easier to refinance.

    Welfare: I'm for ending it to people who cannot pass a drug test. I believe that one who is on welfare should do something for that money, even if it to show up and sit in a gym for eight hours everyday staring at the wall. No more freebies. Clean the highways of garbage, do something for the money.

    Racial discrimination: I'm for ending all hiring quotas. These are outdated and Obama is proof that a black person is no longer being unjustly kept down by the white man.

    Iraq: Things are looking good and it appears to be turning into a positive despite the incredible loss of American lives. Time to start bringing them home in a phased recall.

    Oil: Drill in the Gulf, not in Alaska.

    Nuclear Power: Start building more plants, lots of them. Now.

    Abortion: I'm for a woman's right to choose. I'm not for her to abuse it because she is irresponsible though. Once is a mistake, twice is too much, unless it is because of rape. I don't like LTA's.

    Oh I'm also for a flat tax.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I was fairly undecided - actually not planning to vote at all - until I saw all the ignorant, immature, mean-spirited attacks on Palin and her family from the left and I realized I would never want to be associated with that side of things. Now I'm probably going to vote Republican.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    No wonder that our countrys in such a freakin mess if that's your reason for voting. Seriously. Why can't you put yourself above all that crap and vote for policies that you believe in.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    No wonder that our countrys in such a freakin mess if that's your reason for voting. Seriously. Why can't you put yourself above all that crap and vote for policies that you believe in.

    Are you serious? Just look at this board. Is ANYONE ANYWHERE voting because of policies? Looks to me like their just trying to dig up dirt (or plant dirt). I haven't heard policies mentioned in a long time.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    know1 wrote:
    Are you serious? Just look at this board. Is ANYONE ANYWHERE voting because of policies? Looks to me like their just trying to dig up dirt (or plant dirt). I haven't heard policies mentioned in a long time.
    I'm voting because of policies. Where were you over the last 6 months when there has been thread after thread after thread of ridiculous lies and dirt that have been bought up about obama? Zomg he is teh anti christ and he doesn't wear the pin flag and zomg he frows lil old white ladiez under busses and blah blah blah blah blah. It's been going on for months and it's not just against Palin. And for the record, not everyone stoops to digging up dirt ok?

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5839710&postcount=10

    But hey if that's your reason for voting. Go ahead.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    I'm voting because of policies. Where were you over the last 6 months when there has been thread after thread after thread of ridiculous lies and dirt that have been bought up about obama? Zomg he is teh anti christ and he doesn't wear the pin flag and zomg he frows lil old white ladiez under busses and blah blah blah blah blah. It's been going on for months and it's not just against Palin. And for the record, not everyone stoops to digging up dirt ok?

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5839710&postcount=10

    But hey if that's your reason for voting. Go ahead.

    I'm not saying that either side is innocent in this, but the Dems have taken it to a whole new level by attacking her daughter, etc., and their approach just seems a lot more mean-spirited and hypocritical.

    And actually, I'm still not planning to vote, but I've just become completely sickened by the whole election and the complete partisanship and lack of credit ever given to anyone from "the other side" - whatever that may be.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • AnonAnon Posts: 11,175
    know1 wrote:
    I'm not saying that either side is innocent in this, but the Dems have taken it to a whole new level by attacking her daughter, etc., and their approach just seems a lot more mean-spirited and hypocritical.

    And actually, I'm still not planning to vote, but I've just become completely sickened by the whole election and the complete partisanship and lack of credit ever given to anyone from "the other side" - whatever that may be.
    I absolutely agree that her kids and family and personal life should be off limits. Perhaps that's why i have such an issue with some of her policies as mentioned here.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5835761&postcount=7
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Pj_Gurl wrote:
    I absolutely agree that her kids and family and personal life should be off limits. Perhaps that's why i have such an issue with some of her policies as mentioned here.

    http://forums.pearljam.com/showpost.php?p=5835761&postcount=7

    I saw that thread and it's a good example of what I was talking about. Sure - the issues are mentioned, but saying things like "Sarah Palin wants to control the way any children i may have, receive sex ed., and wants to take away our reproductive rights" is just more of twisting the facts or making blanket statemetns that just aren't true. The sentence I just quoted could apply to any candidate running with the possible exception of the statement about reproductive rights which makes no sense whatesoever.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • blondieblue227blondieblue227 Va, USA Posts: 4,509
    mattyjoe - how the hell am supposed to know where mcCain stands on people with disabilities? it's not on his website. please show me if i missed it.
    http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

    here's obama's page: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/disabilities/

    and i know damn sure neither of them will bring it up in the debates. We’re the forgotten minority. well not if you include disabled vets, which i don't.

    So with the little information I do have, I can only assume he’ll cut spending across the board.

    ________________

    unsung - what about healthcare? http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=265733
    *~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*

  • Long time MP reader, obviously never a poster.

    Congrats to 88Keys. This may be the most commonsense political thread I have ever seen on the MT.

    My thoughts.

    I am a registered Independent and undecided. When asked why I usually jokingly state that I support neither party and blame both. The difficulty I face is that my opinions and views do not fit into these “party platforms”. The party platform has given rise to the dominating and uncompromising PACs. Many of our leaders are now beholden to these groups and the financial power they wield.

    Inability to compromise. I believe this to be the root cause as to why neither side can progress this country forward and provide benefits to all citizens. The injection of social issues as the “be-all end all” into national politics has bitterly divided this country. I recently heard a conversation where a Democrat supporter, said he could not listen to Sarah Palin’s speech and turned the channel. When asked why he said that all he saw when looking at her was the Devil. With such over the top comments and closed mindedness coming from both sides, you really have to wonder where we are headed.

    I believe the founders got it right. Checks and balances. States rights, and rights of voters within those States, should be honored and not dominated by the Federal or Judicial branch. We are a diverse mosaic country that should not be ruled by a few hundred, potentially compromised, lawmakers in DC. It was never intended for the Federal government to become as large and wasteful, or as the Judicial branch to be as influential as it is today.

    My views could be best described as Jeffersonian or Libertarian. Today’s Republican and Democrat parties are so far from either of these philosophies I will most likely vote third party. However, I have not ruled out voting for either Obama or McCain. I simply want to hear as much as I can from both..

    Whether Obama or McCain is elected I will congratulate the winner and hope for their success. Sadly, I think many people, some on this board, will hope for the President to fail if their chosen candidate is not elected.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    PJSkier wrote:
    Long time MP reader, obviously never a poster.

    Congrats to 88Keys. This may be the most commonsense political thread I have ever seen on the MT.

    My thoughts.

    I am a registered Independent and undecided. When asked why I usually jokingly state that I support neither party and blame both. The difficulty I face is that my opinions and views do not fit into these “party platforms”. The party platform has given rise to the dominating and uncompromising PACs. Many of our leaders are now beholden to these groups and the financial power they wield.

    Inability to compromise. I believe this to be the root cause as to why neither side can progress this country forward and provide benefits to all citizens. The injection of social issues as the “be-all end all” into national politics has bitterly divided this country. I recently heard a conversation where a Democrat supporter, said he could not listen to Sarah Palin’s speech and turned the channel. When asked why he said that all he saw when looking at her was the Devil. With such over the top comments and closed mindedness coming from both sides, you really have to wonder where we are headed.

    I believe the founders got it right. Checks and balances. States rights, and rights of voters within those States, should be honored and not dominated by the Federal or Judicial branch. We are a diverse mosaic country that should not be ruled by a few hundred, potentially compromised, lawmakers in DC. It was never intended for the Federal government to become as large and wasteful, or as the Judicial branch to be as influential as it is today.

    My views could be best described as Jeffersonian or Libertarian. Today’s Republican and Democrat parties are so far from either of these philosophies I will most likely vote third party. However, I have not ruled out voting for either Obama or McCain. I simply want to hear as much as I can from both..

    Whether Obama or McCain is elected I will congratulate the winner and hope for their success. Sadly, I think many people, some on this board, will hope for the President to fail if their chosen candidate is not elected.

    I do not think I could agree anymore with this post. It expresses my views almost exactly...except more eloquently than I ever can.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • blondieblue227blondieblue227 Va, USA Posts: 4,509
    hahaha, life is funny.
    15 mins after my post i receive this link in my email on a newsletter i subscribe to.

    '91% Of People With Disabilities Believe They Receive Less Attention From Presidential Candidates Than Other Groups'
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/119585.php


    Like I said I know we are the ‘SuperMinority', but still it’s fucking pathetic.
    *~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*

  • 88keys88keys Posts: 151
    unsung wrote:
    Illegal Immigration: I want it stopped. I do not support any type of amnesty. I want the anchor baby law repealed. I want business owners to face jail time for employing illegal aliens. I want those that are here following the laws and are of legal staus to quit being screwed around.

    I totally agree with this... unfortunately both candidates stance on this is similar to amnesty of some sort. So I guess this is a non-issue. I know a couple of the 3rd party candidates like Bob Barr (Libertarian) and Chuck Baldwin (Constitution party) feel the same way and I and unsung, but we all know both of them have a snowball's chance in hell of winning this election.
    Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
  • 88keys88keys Posts: 151
    PJSkier wrote:
    Congrats to 88Keys. This may be the most commonsense political thread I have ever seen on the MT.


    Thanks for the props... that was my goal with this thread.
    Camden 8/28/1998; Jones Beach 8/24/2000; Camden 9/1/2000; Camden 9/2/2000; Albany 4/29/2003; New York 7/8/2003; Vancouver 9/2/2005; Atlantic City 10/1/2005; Albany 5/12/2006; E. Rutherford 6/1/2006; E. Rutherford 6/3/2006; New York 6/24/2008; New York 6/25/2008; New York 5/20/2010
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