whats the political landscape in 4 years?
LikeAnOpeningBandForTheSun
Posts: 6,097
many of you seem to think Obama will just pick up where Bush left off and be the exact same president he was: probably still in Iraq and invading Iran. To me, if thats true, then that would pretty much be the end of the Democratic party. I mean, wether you agree or not, the argument that the dems cant end the war with Bush in the White house works for now, but they won't have that argument with control of both houses and presidency (see republican downfall for reference). Dont get me wrong, we citizens are incredibly stupid, but not so stupid we wouldnt notice they couldnt bring at least most troops home in four years.
on the other side the Republicans seem to be throwing this election. They have no interest in supporting McCain, no money, and even mcCain seems hell bent on losing. I figure they will just voluntarily lose this election, so they wont have to deal with the coming recession and can just bitch about the dems. They know they've tapped out the country for now. They are just pulling back to re-energize.
So, if you guys are right and the Obama administration is just 4 more years of Bush, then it will be a strong republican (probably no one on the radar yet) vs who? will there even be a semblance of democracy at that point? Is the great NWO is gonna make their big move in the next four years?
on the other side the Republicans seem to be throwing this election. They have no interest in supporting McCain, no money, and even mcCain seems hell bent on losing. I figure they will just voluntarily lose this election, so they wont have to deal with the coming recession and can just bitch about the dems. They know they've tapped out the country for now. They are just pulling back to re-energize.
So, if you guys are right and the Obama administration is just 4 more years of Bush, then it will be a strong republican (probably no one on the radar yet) vs who? will there even be a semblance of democracy at that point? Is the great NWO is gonna make their big move in the next four years?
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WE can only hope.
OMG I'm not the only one who feels this way. I think this country is going into so much debt, a recession, loss of jobs and oh yeah that war/occupation and in Iraq. They would rather see the Dems take over as this country falls into the toilet. The economy will get so bad that this country will be reay to accept another Bush.
I believe this is ALL planned, the Bush's love power.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I agree with lots of your points here. I have also been wondering if the Reps were trying to throw the race...I mean their choices and political moves have been simply nonsensical.
But about your point about the Iraq war and the Dems bringing it to an end or face an angry public....well, I thought the same thing. That there's no way people would sit back and allow Congress to do so little and break their promises from the campaign trail of 06. But everyone gave them free passes and still pretend they are powerless to stop it....that is completely false. Then I kept hearing Obama say we need to keep so many troops there in the middle of this civil dispute that has no end in sight. He wouldn't even commit to saying he'd have the troops out by 2013! Also he's saying he's fine with allowing Blackwater to occupy the country in the place of our troops some of our troops pulling out. It seems clear that we aren't planning on letting the Iraqis have control of their country again. So back to my point, whenever I'd point out these Obama talking points, I kept getting an overwhelming amount of replies on here from Democratic supporters actually defending this prolonged and seemingly unending occupation of Iraq by saying 'We broke the country so now we must fix it however long that takes' or that 'we owe it to the Iraqis to stay there inevitably to protect them from each other' Soooo....when does this perpetual occupation filled with the continued cycle of death and destruction ever end? We are arming both sides of a civil dispute we created and sticking our troops in the middle of this hopeless and pointless situation... all the while the fat cats keep making their blood money from it. The Iraqis want their country back, they don't want us there. Us being there isn't accomplishing anything for them but to fuel more violence and unrest among the terrorized population whose backs remain against the wall because
of us and they way we run business there. What the fuck are we still doing there and how can we buy this horrible mistake of a war/occupation from the Dems when we were so opposed to it from the Reps? Is it really that bad in this country that it doesn't matter what is right and wrong but rather which shitty political party is selling it to us at the time?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i know, right? its bizarre.
whether you thinks its valid or not, they have a fail safe excuse right now that the public is buying. they wont have that in the next four years. Not only that, but they are running on a pretty firm stance of pulling out troops (albeit a little slowly for some). They have to know people will notice this. That would make Bush Sr.'s "read my lips" seem like a little white lie.
That was a lie about 4 months after he said it.
Out of the three Obama is the "best" hope.
Really all there is is hope that he will do the right thing. So far every time I look he's making more imperial ultimatums towards further war, based on zionist policies in protecting a country that should be conducting itself in a much more appropriate fashion.
Basically the US is paying the price for some idiot irresponsible teenager kid to run around smashing things, and crying foul every time someone tries to scold their actions.
It's all riding on one man to turn everything around...
that's waaaayy too much hope for me to comprehend.... Bet the farm on red when you've seen technicians placing various magnets on black...spin the wheel... cross your fingers. No thanks.
love they say....is truly blind.
I believe the media can resolve all of this better than anyone. The media has the power...more so than any political person will ever have to shape the world in a positive direction.
But you know the evil shits control the media also. I say start there first, and genuine responsibility and fairness will ultimately follow.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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And to see people acting worked up over McCain seems laughable to me. The only way he could win with how his badly campaign has shaped up is far would be for the Dems to completely fuck themselves over again trying so damn hard to prove how just republican they can be to voters who would never vote for them in the first place.
So if the public is already buying the reasoning that we have to stay in Iraq to finish what we started and 'fix' it (as if tanks, bombs and machine guns are fixing a hell of a lot) from the Dems such as Obama then what's going to suddenly change to where people will actually tell them 'no, we need to get the fuck out'? The Democrats will get the finest think tank, spin machines together and are going to sell it as a 'dire situation that we couldn't possibly jump ship and leave on or else we'll all be painted as heartless people who don't care about the Iraqis'...just watch.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i meant they can say that with Bush in the White House and not enough votes to override a veto, they can do nothing. Thats the excuse they can use for now.
Only because we let them use that excuse because that reason is also bullshit.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=N10eIKLLc3k
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=278223
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=281230
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=279682
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=280150
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=280866
so back to the points I brought up about the Dems being able to sell the war to the public indefinitely? What are your thoughts on that?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i dont think they can sell it unless violence dies down considerably, and i dont see that happening right after the election. They can't keep a small force in if violence is too high, and thats really the only way they could keep a presence in Iraq and satisfy the public. If the violence dies down, and they can keep a small 'peacekeeping' force in, then the whole thing just becomes less of an issue anyway.
theoretically
They have horses on both sides who will run their race for them and continue their agenda and foreign policies. This is all about the Corporate and Financial interests. .
That's all they really care about.
Republican/ Democrat partisan loyalties, for the most part are nothing but a meaningless rivalry, meant for distraction of the general public.
Independants or Third Parties are marginalized and hyperboled into an ineffectual state of perceived lunatic-fringe, by their manipulation (and the stupidity and lazyness of the American public). They've monopolized the whole electoral process and created this environment of exclusivity.
Whether they do or don't read the the AMT is irrelevant. The fact is the Democratic congressmen know very well they can end the war but would rather lie and tell they public they can't...which really pisses me off because they ran in 06 telling the people they could end the war. So they were 1.) lying on the campaign trail to the public promising them something they had no intention of even doing. then 2.)They win the majority in the house and senate and now change their tune to 'well we're in office now but can't do what we said we could.' Doesn't anyone stop and think: 'Then why the fuck were you telling us you could in the first place?!'
Regardless of all of that...this information is available to everyone. People need to stop simply buying whatever excuse their politicians throw out at them and start taking a real long and hard look at what's really going on. Until then this country will continue to get the leaders it deserves...half-assed politicians who will say anything and do nothing.
This logic is not making sense to me here. Why would less violence be a good sell at continuing the war and staying around to protect the Iraqis? If there is less violence then there's less reason for us to have troops there protecting them. But with more violence...which our presence already guarantees, then they have the perfect selling point for continuing the occupation which will be
'We can't leave them stranded now, it's our job to fix this mess and save the Iraqi people.' Of course this is a complete bullshit line used simply to sell the war to the people and discredit any dissent as 'unsympathetic and heartless to the Iraqis'. The facts are, as they have been for some time now....the Iraqis want us out and they'd like their country back. Who woulda thunk it? And our presence creates a lot of the tension and violence that's plaguing Iraq. The best thing we can do is get the fuck out of there already. But that's not what the Dems will be singing...not for one minute.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
you're not quite sober, eh..?? im not mocking you, just seems your tone is a little accelerated from what i normally read.
i agree with everything you've said here (except maybe the hope part...) the question, ergo, is: how to begin to topple the corporate-media empire (when the influence they exert is so much)...??
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
my hope is that i am wrong, but i dont see incrimental change as carrying its weight in gold. then again, there is only one way for any truly revolutionary growths to occur: like a wave, building,........
to dust i guess,
forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..