Study: France is healthcare leader, US comes dead last

sponger

Personally, I'd rather be able to buy a honda or toyota than be given a ford festiva for free.

There's no point in giving everyone a free ford festiva when they're all going to break down in no time at all anyway.

Same goes for healthcare. It mentions the lives that could've been saved with free, timely healthcare. But, how about the lives that have been saved with better quality free-market healthcare as compared to the crappy shitty communist healthcare? Where's that study? Wasn't on the anti-capitalist-propagandist drawing board? Too bad I guess.

Commy

sponger wrote:

Personally, I'd rather be able to buy a honda or toyota than be given a ford festiva for free.

There's no point in giving everyone a free ford festiva when they're all going to break down in no time at all anyway.

Same goes for healthcare. It mentions the lives that could've been saved with free, timely healthcare. But, how about the lives that have been saved with better quality free-market healthcare as compared to the crappy shitty communist healthcare? Where's that study? Wasn't on the anti-capitalist-propagandist drawing board? Too bad I guess.

The richest nation in the world can afford to provide quality healthcare to its citizens The fact that 40 million Americans are without healthcare is a crime-they're walking, dont' even have a festiva.

jeffbr

Commy wrote:

When did dollars become worth more than human lives?

I suppose every time you buy a beer or a movie ticket or a concert ticket instead of donating that money to charity you're voting on something more important to you than saving human lives. Is that what you mean?

Commy

jeffbr wrote:

I suppose every time you buy a beer or a movie ticket or a concert ticket instead of donating that money to charity you're voting on something more important to you than saving human lives. Is that what you mean?

The US accounts for half the world's spending on means of violence. With 40 million Americans needing healthcare, there is a problem with SOCIETY. would you agree?

I stopped drinking, drugs all of it, but that's not even a valid analogy, it doesn't make any sense.

A gov't spending more on violence each year than on saving lives doesn't make any sense either.

sponger

Commy wrote:

The richest nation in the world can afford to provide quality healthcare to its citizens

pure unsubstantiated fantasy. richest? how about most indebted?

Commy

sponger wrote:

pure unsubstantiated fantasy. richest? how about most indebted?

How about access to the most resources on the planet

sponger

Commy wrote:

How about access to the most resources on the planet

Doesn't mean those resources are free.

g under p

jlew24asu wrote:

nobody forced you to be a social worker. nobody forced you to work for the firm that offered you nothing. we all have choices. you made yours, not you want me to pay for your health insurance?

I would be all for the government paying for children's healthcare but dont blame me or ask me to pay for your choices.

Man, you're becoming or you are a self centered/selfish prick. What you can't think or feel for someone else other than yourself.

Oh I get it as long as I have mine, how you get your health care matters none to me.

Peace

Kann

sponger wrote:

Personally, I'd rather be able to buy a honda or toyota than be given a ford festiva for free.

There's no point in giving everyone a free ford festiva when they're all going to break down in no time at all anyway.

Same goes for healthcare. It mentions the lives that could've been saved with free, timely healthcare. But, how about the lives that have been saved with better quality free-market healthcare as compared to the crappy shitty communist healthcare? Where's that study? Wasn't on the anti-capitalist-propagandist drawing board? Too bad I guess.

Did you ever get treated in France? How do you know if the system is crappy or not?
Communism has not showed any positive results, but the free-market is not showing many either.
edit : with the crappy communist system everyone gets a festiva but if you want a honda so bad you can always go abroad, get it and come back to boast in front of the plebs with it.

sponger

Kann wrote:

Did you ever get treated in France? How do you know if the system is crappy or not?
Communism has not showed any positive results, but the free-market is not showing many either.

Show me where it says otherwise. All of these studies never address that because it doesn't work in their favor as I was saying.

edit : with the crappy communist system everyone gets a festiva but if you want a honda so bad you can always go abroad, get it and come back to boast in front of the plebs with it.

I guess you're just bored and posting whatever you feel like saying without really putting much thought to it.

Kann

sponger wrote:

Show me where it says otherwise. All of these studies never address that because it doesn't work in their favor as I was saying.

I can't prove a negative. I asked you to tell me how you know the healthcare system is crappier than in the US. I can't show you it's not worse. (edit: though this says a little)

I guess you're just bored and posting whatever you feel like saying without really putting much thought to it.

What I meant it that if people really want so bad to pay a shitload of $ for their healthcare they can always go get treated in the us.

Collin

jlew24asu wrote:

thats not my problem. I work hard. and in doing so I can afford to give myself access to the best healthcare in the world. I do not want in handed to me for free thus lowering my quality of care.

I don't believe this, I don't think 'free' healthcare necessarily means a lesser quality of care.

sponger wrote:

Same goes for healthcare. It mentions the lives that could've been saved with free, timely healthcare. But, how about the lives that have been saved with better quality free-market healthcare as compared to the crappy shitty communist healthcare? Where's that study? Wasn't on the anti-capitalist-propagandist drawing board? Too bad I guess.

:rolleyes:

spiral out

g under p wrote:

Man, you're becoming or you are a self centered/selfish prick. What you can't think or feel for someone else other than yourself.

Oh I get it as long as I have mine, how you get your health care matters none to me.

Peace

I have to agree with you here, i've never seen such a selfish naive reply from anyone else on this board.

Jlew you pretty much showed your true colours there.

Kel Varnsen

Do people really not see how others having access to healthcare is beneficial to them. I mean it seems logical to me that if people can go see a doctor without having to worry if they have enough money to pay for it, people are going to get treated for diseases a lot sooner. Which means less chances of people walking around on the street, or in the elevator with me having untreated infectious diseases (like TB or the Plague or something). Or if I am driving down the road there is less chance that the guy in front of me is going to have a fatal heart attack and cause a massive car wreck, because the day before when he had chest pains he actually went to the doctor instead of staying home because he didn’t want to worry about spending money he didn’t have something that might have just been indigestion.

Even on a more basic route, they always say that when people have a disease if they get treatment early their survival rate goes way up and they require less medical resources. Now if people can’t go to the doctor when they have symptoms, because they can not afford it, it means it is more likely that they are not going to go until their disease gets serious before they seek help. If that is the case it could mean more hospital time and taking up a hospital bed and many more resources that they wouldn’t have needed if it was easier to see a doctor earlier. And even from a selfish person’s point of view, a person taking up space at a hospital might be taking up a bed and the time of a doctor that a selfish person, who has insurance, might need. I mean even if someone only cares for themself, I have just given multiple examples of how other people having access to healthcare is beneficial to you.

Indian Summer

jlew24asu wrote:

I think the united states has close to the best healthcare and doctors. its just not affordable for some.

The game that insurance companies play with hospitals and doctors is sooooo corrupt it makes me sick. When insurance won't pay for one thing, the hospitals and doctors are forced to charge more for other things....and it changes all the time, making the costs out of control. It's a game to the insurance companies.

Dylan Stone

Kel Varnsen wrote:

Do people really not see how others having access to healthcare is beneficial to them. I mean it seems logical to me that if people can go see a doctor without having to worry if they have enough money to pay for it, people are going to get treated for diseases a lot sooner. Which means less chances of people walking around on the street, or in the elevator with me having untreated infectious diseases (like TB or the Plague or something). Or if I am driving down the road there is less chance that the guy in front of me is going to have a fatal heart attack and cause a massive car wreck, because the day before when he had chest pains he actually went to the doctor instead of staying home because he didn’t want to worry about spending money he didn’t have something that might have just been indigestion.

Even on a more basic route, they always say that when people have a disease if they get treatment early their survival rate goes way up and they require less medical resources. Now if people can’t go to the doctor when they have symptoms, because they can not afford it, it means it is more likely that they are not going to go until their disease gets serious before they seek help. If that is the case it could mean more hospital time and taking up a hospital bed and many more resources that they wouldn’t have needed if it was easier to see a doctor earlier. And even from a selfish person’s point of view, a person taking up space at a hospital might be taking up a bed and the time of a doctor that a selfish person, who has insurance, might need. I mean even if someone only cares for themself, I have just given multiple examples of how other people having access to healthcare is beneficial to you.

I truly believe most people in this country "get it" when it comes to how we are all so screwed with the condition of the current US health care system. They just feel helpless and don't know how it can be fixed.

Others are just VERY short-sighted.

Nice post.

Pacomc79

Definitively, there is far too much corruption in the US healthcare system. It's multifacited, from the drug marketers, to doctors overperscribing medication, to bad government regulations payments and generally decisions made by politicians instead of doctors. Everyone is in everyones pocket and it hurts all of us.

Nothing in the US healthcare system is logical in the least whether you are "covered" or you aren't.

Viggo

This Country Beats France (from Sicko): http://youtube.com/watch?v=xJ0B2xDzSgg

But I guess it has to do with the amount of taxes that we pay. If you make 200, 000 $ a year (which a doctor usually makes) you pay 50% in taxes.

The majority of the people between the age of 15-19 makes 7600 $ a year. You don't have to pay any taxes if you earn under 7600$.

I had a part time job last year and earned 20, 000 $ and payed 31% just in taxes.

The moral is, the higher the taxes, the better the health care (with certain exceptions). US is a kaptialstisc country. You have to work hard for youself and only yourself. In Norway you get money if you don't have a job, if your sick etc. (See the video, it reflects a rather correct side of the Norwegian health care system, but not every city is like that of course)l.

Indian Summer

Pacomc79 wrote:

Definitively, there is far too much corruption in the US healthcare system. It's multifacited, from the drug marketers, to doctors overperscribing medication, to bad government regulations payments and generally decisions made by politicians instead of doctors. Everyone is in everyones pocket and it hurts all of us.

Nothing in the US healthcare system is logical in the least whether you are "covered" or you aren't.

I honestly don't think its the doctors, they system forces them to do corrupt things with Billing and whatnot.

Pacomc79

Indian Summer wrote:

I honestly don't think its the doctors, they system forces them to do corrupt things with Billing and whatnot.

note that the next time you get a prescription you'll be given it written off a pad that says....schering plows newest fad drug prescription here on the leather bound cover. God Forbid you should have to try a few different ones from thier prize closet of samples none of which have generics..... Trust me it's everybody... a payoff here, a scratch your back there. Either way the consumer is getting screwed...whether you get your doctoring dinero from the Government or from the other insurance you're paying for. Whose the last Doctor you saw driving off in a 91 Honda Accord? Yeah it's expensive to go to medical school, but none of them are hurting for dough.

If anything, we could certainly ax the prescription drug marketing nonsense in the US, even if it were only on the TV.