Allright. i'm nearly impossible to offend,but, you've managed to do it with this here. NEVER have i even implied that ANYONE here is a second class citizen for ANY reason. My only intention was to show how stupid the claim is that being Atheist is an enormous hardship in America. Thats one of the biggest, foulest, steaming fucking piles i've ever heard. Except for the bit about my posts demonstrating an idea that atheists are second class citizens. Give it up Bro. You're full of fucking shit.
being without is secondary class in america; it's a crime to be .....................in america.
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
don't need this link; thank you for others to read; i am familair with maslow's self actualization scale. where do you lie on this scale and what does actualization mean to you....please do not use reference; i wanna know waht it means to you as an iindependent, thinking, human being.
is not maslow's structure fitted for modernized, working class.....? i am not of that class...when i feel empathy and pain for others; it continues to resort the my self....this is why each of us has a different interpretation to all variants in our daliy lives....
as far as living without guilt and becoming actualized; i have heard that only children of about 5 years old ever really experience this euphoria; do chldren hold donw jobs and chase after credit cards?
when god told je'sus that he was gonna be the savior of all man, what did he do? he disappeared......who was he serving then?
all insanity:
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
Here we go again. i read the article. There is really nothing new in it. Oh, yeah, "some muslims flew a plane into some buildings. There is no God. People have perverted religion and misused the Bible in an attempt to push an agenda, therefore, God does not exist. People do bad things. Evil exists. Therefore, God cannot. i don't believe in God and i'm the smartest man/woman alive, therefore God doesn't exist". i think that about covers it. Just thought i'd save some of you some time. i'm pretty sure i've read this thread about ten million times on this board. If you don't believe in God, thats fine. As a Christian, i don't care, i'm not offended, and i'm certainly not scared. None of the above arguments are sound. They are all philosphically and scientifically unstable.
Carry on.
oh i dunno, the way you went off on the article with so much sarcasm kind of points to insecurities...
Don't try to frame me inside some kinda of liberal conspiracy that all conservatives who believe in God are whacked.
I didn't need the TV for me to figure out how about 10 to 15 years ago it became increasingly unpopular to believe in God. It is a ridiculous that so many people out there want to distance all our society from any public affirmation of what our founders based the Declaration of Independence and our Constitution on, freedom and individual rights. Religious freedom being one of those freedoms endowed by our Creator, and the concept that no man can deny another man what God gave him. Fundamentally that is what changed the world and changed history.
Yet, in the public square we want to uproot the connection because we are so enlightened that we don't need a God to ensure our rights anymore. Rather, we as humans have developed so wonderfully that now we can ensure it all by ourselves. But, then I look around at the world and I don't see that we are doing a very good job of promoting this idea, and many places the world has no concept of it, and they aren't very good places to be.
My response to the poster was really how I don't get how an aethiest can say it is hard for them, not that I don't understand that not everyone agrees with him, obviously. I thought it funny, and it still is. But the rest of you can't find any humor in me flip comments. Lighten up.
What the hell are you talking about? Liberal conspiracy? Where did you get that? Feeling a wee bit paranoid, are ya?
You said "No one cares that you don't believe in God, there are no holidays or beliefs that you have that are under attack." I replied only to that sentence, and nowhere in my response did I imply that "all conservatives who believe in god are whacked."
Now you're talking about how 10 to 15 years ago you found it suddenly less popular to believe in god. Fine, but that's not what you said in the first place. I was addressing your comment about your holidays being marginalized, which is something that exists chiefly in the mind of Bill O'Reilly and his followers. Trust me, no one wants to take Christmas away from you. We all get a paid day off too, and no one is going to take that away from us! If anything, we should have MORE religious holidays. I want a paid day off for Ramadan and Yom Kippur and the Solstice.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I was addressing your comment about your holidays being marginalized, which is something that exists chiefly in the mind of Bill O'Reilly and his followers.
Bill O'Reilly's "followers?" I would LOVE to hear your generalization of these people.
As far as parania goes, do you honestly believe that if a public place has a manger scene, they are persuading you to convert?
And you ask me what I want this year
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Bill O'Reilly's "followers?" I would LOVE to hear your generalization of these people.
As far as parania goes, do you honestly believe that if a public place has a manger scene, they are persuading you to convert?
Of course I don't believe that. I've never said any such thing, or anything close to it. I'm quite secure in my beliefs, I'm not threatened by a baby doll lying in a plywood stable surrounded by plastic livestock. I think fights about manger scenes are ridiculous, unless there's preferential or discriminatory treatment. If public property is made equally available to all citizens, and some of those citizens choose to put up a manger scene, it's fine with me. My opinion is that people who complain about them need to find something useful to do.
As for O'Reilly's followers ... yes, I roll my eyes at anyone who swallows nonsense like the "War on Christmas." All anyone has to do is take a look around any time after about November 15th to see that Christmas is alive and well. People who get worked up about such things are every bit as silly as the ones bitching about manger scenes.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
don't need this link; thank you for others to read; i am familair with maslow's self actualization scale. where do you lie on this scale and what does actualization mean to you....please do not use reference; i wanna know waht it means to you as an iindependent, thinking, human being.
is not maslow's structure fitted for modernized, working class.....? i am not of that class...when i feel empathy and pain for others; it continues to resort the my self....this is why each of us has a different interpretation to all variants in our daliy lives....
as far as living without guilt and becoming actualized; i have heard that only children of about 5 years old ever really experience this euphoria; do chldren hold donw jobs and chase after credit cards?
when god told je'sus that he was gonna be the savior of all man, what did he do? he disappeared......who was he serving then?
You kind of lost me with children being self-actualized at the age of 5. From what I've read, self-actualization is a life-long endeavor.
Empathy and compassion do come back to the self. But, that's only because that's where empathy and compassion originate from in the first place. It's your ability to see others as you see yourself that gives you a genuine sense of selflessness. That's because it's not selflessness at all. It's selfishness, but you are viewing others as though they are part of yourself. Empathy is, by definition, the ability to put yourself in the shoes of another. By doing so, you are being selfish, but without the mental barriers that distance you from others.
So, you aren't as selfish as you think you are, or claim to be for the sake of this discussion.
My only intention was to show how stupid the claim is that being Atheist is an enormous hardship in America.
"Isn't easy" does not equal "an enormous hardship."
And you know what, I think you too can't handle these debats seriously...
Can you give firm evidence of god's existence? No. Can we disprove god? No.
Yet when we try to make arguments why we don't believe in god you start with your "I've seen this before, nothing new, Oh hear the atheist: I'm the smartest man alive and therefore god doesn't exist..."
Well very nice of you to keep an open mind to see what we've got to say, how nice of you to act like every atheist is a 'I'm better than you blind cheap-asshole."
As for O'Reilly's followers ... yes, I roll my eyes at anyone who swallows nonsense like the "War on Christmas." All anyone has to do is take a look around any time after about November 15th to see that Christmas is alive and well. People who get worked up about such things are every bit as silly as the ones bitching about manger scenes.
I'm with her.
Anyone who'll swallow bill o'riley's b.s. can be generalized like that.
"Isn't easy" does not equal "an enormous hardship."
And you know what, I think you too can't handle these debats seriously...
Can you give firm evidence of god's existence? No. Can we disprove god? No.
Yet when we try to make arguments why we don't believe in god you start with your "I've seen this before, nothing new, Oh hear the atheist: I'm the smartest man alive and therefore god doesn't exist..."
Well very nice of you to keep an open mind to see what we've got to say, how nice of you to act like every atheist is a 'I'm better than you blind cheap-asshole."
What the hell are you talking about? Liberal conspiracy? Where did you get that? Feeling a wee bit paranoid, are ya?
You said "No one cares that you don't believe in God, there are no holidays or beliefs that you have that are under attack." I replied only to that sentence, and nowhere in my response did I imply that "all conservatives who believe in god are whacked."
Now you're talking about how 10 to 15 years ago you found it suddenly less popular to believe in god. Fine, but that's not what you said in the first place. I was addressing your comment about your holidays being marginalized, which is something that exists chiefly in the mind of Bill O'Reilly and his followers. Trust me, no one wants to take Christmas away from you. We all get a paid day off too, and no one is going to take that away from us! If anything, we should have MORE religious holidays. I want a paid day off for Ramadan and Yom Kippur and the Solstice.
I gotta agree here. HippieMom made a great point that 60-some percent of the electorate won't even vote for a non-believer. Being religous creates as much pregidous as not being religious. Each side holds animosity for the other.
At any rate - It's always harder to be a minority - always. I can't understand why nobody would admit that. It is human nature to judge people, that is what we do. It is not a bad thing either I might add. While most of America understands that judging somebody by the color of their skin or by their gender is ignorant - it is still very much okay to judge somebody based on their beliefs. And not believing in God or believing in God is the ultimate of all beliefs.
The funny thing is, I really don't see alot of difference between staunch Christians and Atheists.
Honestly, the dedicated Atheist is as firmly committed to his or her belief structure as the fundamental Christian. In my experience, strong believers on both sides come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational, belittling anybody who elects to give question to their views. In fact, the hard-core Christian and Atheist are essentially the same as far as I see it. Both are completely confident that they know some greater truth, and intentionally spit on anybody who disagrees.
I will never buy into Christianity (or any other organized religion for that matter), but Atheism doesn't really do it for me either. Anybody who is so certain about something in the absence of any substantive evidence scares the hell out of me.
The funny thing is, I really don't see alot of difference between staunch Christians and Atheists.
Honestly, the dedicated Atheist is as firmly committed to his or her belief structure as the fundamental Christian. In my experience, strong believers on both sides come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational, belittling anybody who elects to give question to their views. In fact, the hard-core Christian and Atheist are essentially the same as far as I see it. Both are completely confident that they know some greater truth, and intentionally spit on anybody who disagrees.
I will never buy into Christianity (or any other organized religion for that matter), but Atheism doesn't really do it for me either. Anybody who is so certain about something in the absence of any substantive evidence scares the hell out of me.
That's true, but the difference is that Christians put a value on faith.
"Faith in (insert faith here)" and "belief in nothing" couldn't be more different things, esp. in political terms.
Lets talk teaching...
Teaching creationism (for example) is teaching a christian belief, but leaving religion out of the classroom as atheists would have is another thing entirely.
The funny thing is, I really don't see alot of difference between staunch Christians and Atheists.
Honestly, the dedicated Atheist is as firmly committed to his or her belief structure as the fundamental Christian. In my experience, strong believers on both sides come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational, belittling anybody who elects to give question to their views. In fact, the hard-core Christian and Atheist are essentially the same as far as I see it. Both are completely confident that they know some greater truth, and intentionally spit on anybody who disagrees.
i think this can be said for any of an *extreme* nature, no matter the topic...be it relgious, political, etc. tolerance is a GREAT thing. whether one agrees or disagrees...we all get on far better with openess and acceptance rather than arrogance and condescension. i am a firm believer in there is no one *right* way for all to live their lives, it's a choice, and a choice one must make for themselves....all else should respect that.
in regards to the topic at hand, i think it simply enough to state: being thought *different*, outside the norm, has never been easy in america.
Maybe someone said this already, but it seems to me that it is very unpopular to not believe in God, but its equally unpopular to be actively religious about your belief in God.
I'm agnostic, although I find some inspiration in buddhism, celtic paganism, heathenism, shamanism and pantheism. Anyway, I don't go around telling anyone that I don't believe in God. My own parents don't even know that. It's politically unwise to be anything other than Christian or Jewish.
It's politically unwise to be anything other than Christian or Jewish.
Werd. I was fired out of the blue within a couple of weeks after announcing to my co-workers that I am an atheist. A few of my co-workers asked me one day during break what religion I was. Both of the managers in that dept. were serious bible-thumbers who regularly went to bible study, sometimes talking about it at the lunch table.
The reasons that were given as grounds for my termination were - I kid you not- absolute lies. I had no avenue for appeal as I was still on new employee probation, which lasts for a year and half. It would've been my word against the words of two seasoned managers anyway. Goes to show that the righteousness of the "faith" is often used to mask a grotesque hypocrisy.
Werd. I was fired out of the blue within a couple of weeks after announcing to my co-workers that I am an atheist. A few of my co-workers asked me one day during break what religion I was. Both of the managers in that dept. were serious bible-thumbers who regularly went to bible study, sometimes talking about it at the lunch table.
The reasons that were given as grounds for my termination were - I kid you not- absolute lies. I had no avenue for appeal as I was still on new employee probation, which lasts for a year and half. It would've been my word against the words of two seasoned managers anyway. Goes to show that the righteousness of the "faith" is often used to mask a grotesque hypocrisy.
Comments
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
is not maslow's structure fitted for modernized, working class.....? i am not of that class...when i feel empathy and pain for others; it continues to resort the my self....this is why each of us has a different interpretation to all variants in our daliy lives....
as far as living without guilt and becoming actualized; i have heard that only children of about 5 years old ever really experience this euphoria; do chldren hold donw jobs and chase after credit cards?
when god told je'sus that he was gonna be the savior of all man, what did he do? he disappeared......who was he serving then?
a derivitive of nature.
nature is god
god is love
love is light
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
You said "No one cares that you don't believe in God, there are no holidays or beliefs that you have that are under attack." I replied only to that sentence, and nowhere in my response did I imply that "all conservatives who believe in god are whacked."
Now you're talking about how 10 to 15 years ago you found it suddenly less popular to believe in god. Fine, but that's not what you said in the first place. I was addressing your comment about your holidays being marginalized, which is something that exists chiefly in the mind of Bill O'Reilly and his followers. Trust me, no one wants to take Christmas away from you. We all get a paid day off too, and no one is going to take that away from us! If anything, we should have MORE religious holidays. I want a paid day off for Ramadan and Yom Kippur and the Solstice.
Bill O'Reilly's "followers?" I would LOVE to hear your generalization of these people.
As far as parania goes, do you honestly believe that if a public place has a manger scene, they are persuading you to convert?
And I try to make this kind and clear
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
And desire and love and empty things
Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
As for O'Reilly's followers ... yes, I roll my eyes at anyone who swallows nonsense like the "War on Christmas." All anyone has to do is take a look around any time after about November 15th to see that Christmas is alive and well. People who get worked up about such things are every bit as silly as the ones bitching about manger scenes.
You kind of lost me with children being self-actualized at the age of 5. From what I've read, self-actualization is a life-long endeavor.
Empathy and compassion do come back to the self. But, that's only because that's where empathy and compassion originate from in the first place. It's your ability to see others as you see yourself that gives you a genuine sense of selflessness. That's because it's not selflessness at all. It's selfishness, but you are viewing others as though they are part of yourself. Empathy is, by definition, the ability to put yourself in the shoes of another. By doing so, you are being selfish, but without the mental barriers that distance you from others.
So, you aren't as selfish as you think you are, or claim to be for the sake of this discussion.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
"Isn't easy" does not equal "an enormous hardship."
And you know what, I think you too can't handle these debats seriously...
Can you give firm evidence of god's existence? No. Can we disprove god? No.
Yet when we try to make arguments why we don't believe in god you start with your "I've seen this before, nothing new, Oh hear the atheist: I'm the smartest man alive and therefore god doesn't exist..."
Well very nice of you to keep an open mind to see what we've got to say, how nice of you to act like every atheist is a 'I'm better than you blind cheap-asshole."
naděje umírá poslední
Anyone who'll swallow bill o'riley's b.s. can be generalized like that.
*nods*
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
I gotta agree here. HippieMom made a great point that 60-some percent of the electorate won't even vote for a non-believer. Being religous creates as much pregidous as not being religious. Each side holds animosity for the other.
At any rate - It's always harder to be a minority - always. I can't understand why nobody would admit that. It is human nature to judge people, that is what we do. It is not a bad thing either I might add. While most of America understands that judging somebody by the color of their skin or by their gender is ignorant - it is still very much okay to judge somebody based on their beliefs. And not believing in God or believing in God is the ultimate of all beliefs.
Honestly, the dedicated Atheist is as firmly committed to his or her belief structure as the fundamental Christian. In my experience, strong believers on both sides come across as extremely arrogant and confrontational, belittling anybody who elects to give question to their views. In fact, the hard-core Christian and Atheist are essentially the same as far as I see it. Both are completely confident that they know some greater truth, and intentionally spit on anybody who disagrees.
I will never buy into Christianity (or any other organized religion for that matter), but Atheism doesn't really do it for me either. Anybody who is so certain about something in the absence of any substantive evidence scares the hell out of me.
"Faith in (insert faith here)" and "belief in nothing" couldn't be more different things, esp. in political terms.
Lets talk teaching...
Teaching creationism (for example) is teaching a christian belief, but leaving religion out of the classroom as atheists would have is another thing entirely.
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"
i think this can be said for any of an *extreme* nature, no matter the topic...be it relgious, political, etc. tolerance is a GREAT thing. whether one agrees or disagrees...we all get on far better with openess and acceptance rather than arrogance and condescension. i am a firm believer in there is no one *right* way for all to live their lives, it's a choice, and a choice one must make for themselves....all else should respect that.
in regards to the topic at hand, i think it simply enough to state: being thought *different*, outside the norm, has never been easy in america.
Let's just breathe...
I am myself like you somehow
I'm agnostic, although I find some inspiration in buddhism, celtic paganism, heathenism, shamanism and pantheism. Anyway, I don't go around telling anyone that I don't believe in God. My own parents don't even know that. It's politically unwise to be anything other than Christian or Jewish.
Werd. I was fired out of the blue within a couple of weeks after announcing to my co-workers that I am an atheist. A few of my co-workers asked me one day during break what religion I was. Both of the managers in that dept. were serious bible-thumbers who regularly went to bible study, sometimes talking about it at the lunch table.
The reasons that were given as grounds for my termination were - I kid you not- absolute lies. I had no avenue for appeal as I was still on new employee probation, which lasts for a year and half. It would've been my word against the words of two seasoned managers anyway. Goes to show that the righteousness of the "faith" is often used to mask a grotesque hypocrisy.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"