Conservative advocate turns to filmmaking to counter 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

SuzannePjamSuzannePjam Posts: 411
edited August 2006 in A Moving Train
I'm glad someone with such "stellar" credentials is making a counter to the Michael Moore movie. Someone who was fired as an investigator against Hillary Clinton in the Whitewater investigations for editing the tapes to make her seem guilty sure has a lot of credibility. The full article has information about Bossie's immigration movie as well.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14574345/from/RS.3/

Taking the cause to the big screen

Conservative advocate turns to filmmaking to counter 'Fahrenheit 9/11'

WASHINGTON - David N. Bossie earned a reputation as a relentless sleuth -- or right-wing hit man, depending on one's political persuasion -- during his years as a high-profile Republican congressional investigator and conservative activist.

Through the 1990s, Bossie spent much of his time assembling caches of documents to push his admittedly ideological agenda. He was a ready promoter of stories about President Bill Clinton's sexual and ethical lapses, proved and otherwise.

Bossie was fired as an investigator for the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee after overseeing the release of recordings of Hillary Rodham Clinton's phone conversations with Whitewater figure Webster L. Hubbell. The tapes were edited to create the impression that Clinton was involved in billing irregularities at the Arkansas law firm where she and Hubbell worked.

No longer content to merely unearth documents, Bossie, president of Citizens United, a conservative advocacy group, has turned to documentary-style films to push his causes. His latest contribution to the national political debate is "Border War," a film he co-produced that makes the case for a serious crackdown on illegal immigration.

'Celsius 41.11' counters Moore's film
When Michael Moore's 2004 documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11" proved to be a hit that rallied partisans on the left against President Bush, Bossie said he was surprised and then got on the phone looking for someone to craft a right-wing response. When he got no answer, he reached into Citizens United's deep pockets, put up about $1 million and hired Hollywood stalwarts Lionel Chetwynd, Kevin Knoblock and Ted Steinberg to help him make "Celsius 41.11."

"The contrasts are startling. 'Fahrenheit' Bush was a deer in the headlights; 'Celsius' Bush is a deer hunter," read a review in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. ". . . 'Fahrenheit' Bush barely could speak in complete sentences; 'Celsius' Bush delivers confident speeches. And so on."

The movie may not have created the buzz that "Fahrenheit 9/11" did, but it did go on to be shown in 125 theatres and to be reproduced on 200,000 DVDs, many of which were given to Citizens United supporters. "One thing I learned is you can have impact with that medium," Bossie said. "I also learned that I can make films. And you don't have to make them in Hollywood."

He had editing equipment installed in the basement of Citizens United's Capitol Hill headquarters and has gone on to make a film excoriating the United Nations, before shooting "Border War."

Weapons in Washington
Films have long been used as propaganda. Frank Capra's "Why We Fight" series was commissioned to explain U.S. policy during World War II and to answer the German 1935 film, "Triumph of the Will," which glorified Adolf Hitler and the Nazi cause.

But the use of films as weapons in the political and ideological battles in Washington is a relatively new development aided by advances in digital technology, which makes editing and distribution cheap and easy. It also is being helped along by Moore's success.

"This is just an obvious outcome of the polarization that is happening in this country," said Malcolm Spaull, chairman of the film school at the Rochester Institute of Technology. "In this case, it is through the media. I only see this growing."

Bossie says he has two more film projects in the pipeline. One, about the American Civil Liberties Union, is scheduled for a fall release. The other is about Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), who is widely believed to be positioning herself for a 2008 presidential run. Bossie said he is teaming with Dick Morris, the former Clinton media adviser, on that one.

Asked when it will be released, Bossie said, "At the right time."
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand

"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • this had to be expected. if a left wing propagandist can become a millionaire off of making films full of lies, wouldn't you expect somebody that is equally extreme on the other side to try it?
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    Maybe they should try and take on the real docs that expose 911. I know that it would be tough with all the secrets about that day, but exposing Moore isn't too tough with the film he put out.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • NakedClownNakedClown Posts: 545

    Bossie was fired as an investigator for the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee after overseeing the release of recordings of Hillary Rodham Clinton's phone conversations with Whitewater figure Webster L. Hubbell. The tapes were edited to create the impression that Clinton was involved in billing irregularities at the Arkansas law firm where she and Hubbell worked.

    This means he is a proven and documented liar and anything and everything he has to say should be suspect...

    EDIT: ZERO CREDIBILITY
  • What "credibility" does Michael Moore have? I'll skip this movie for the same reason I skipped Fahrenheit 9/11. If I want to waste my time listening to conclusions in the form of "facts" I'll watch the Oreilly Factor or go to prisonplanet.
  • What "credibility" does Michael Moore have? I'll skip this movie for the same reason I skipped Fahrenheit 9/11. If I want to waste my time listening to conclusions in the form of "facts" I'll watch the Oreilly Factor or go to prisonplanet.

    well michael moore made alot of money, and that was his only goal. if he really wanted to help his supposed cause, he would know to shut-up.
  • well michael moore made alot of money, and that was his only goal. if he really wanted to help his supposed cause, he would know to shut-up.

    I'm not sure Moore's goal was just "making money". He actually does seem to care about things -- he's just rabid and foolish. He simply seems devoid of principle and that's bad news for anyone who wishes to think critically about how the world does and should work. He's not the first and won't be the last. Sounds like the guy in this article is the next.
  • "I'm not sure Moore's goal was just "making money". He actually does seem to care about things -- he's just rabid and foolish."

    see, i don't get that. i think he's a smart guy, with different goals than he represents. he wants to be a film maker and make alot of money, but he does it by pretending to be a leader of the far left, IMO. i watched his film "roger and me" in college. i thought it was a good film and was happy to see a guy stand up for the american worker..then i read an interview with him and he was bragging about driving a foreign made car..he doesn't really care, he just wants to make money. he has the "green disease" like everybody else. heck, al gore is the same way. he wants us to believe that we are ruining the planet with energy consumption, then he lives in 3 mansions.
  • I don't know if most of you are aware of that dick morris guy, but I seriously think hes in love with Hillary Clinton. Seriously, thne guy has written 3 or 4 books about how awful he is.
  • WMAWMA Posts: 175
    Moore gave permission for F 9/11 to be pirated on the internet so long as the people pirating don't make a profit. Doesn't sound like someone completely consumed by money to me.
    “I don’t agree with the copyright laws and I don’t have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people as long as they’re not trying to make a profit off my labour. I would oppose that,” he said.

    “I do well enough already and I made this film because I want the world, to change. The more people who see it the better, so I’m happy this is happening.”

    Moore’s views have not been well received by Hollywood’s establishment, which is fighting a war against the online pirates it claims cost the industry £1.6 billion a year in lost sales

    from http://www.sundayherald.com/43167
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    I don't know why people attack this guy's credentials. People on the other end of the political spectrum did the same thing to Moore, and then everyone freaked out about free speech, "the truth", etc.
    Seriously. Is dialogue not a good thing?
  • “I don’t agree with the copyright laws and I don’t have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it with people as long as they’re not trying to make a profit off my labour. I would oppose that,” he said.

    How ironic coming from the guy who has advocated a 70 percent tax rate.
  • I don't know why people attack this guy's credentials. People on the other end of the political spectrum did the same thing to Moore, and then everyone freaked out about free speech, "the truth", etc.
    Seriously. Is dialogue not a good thing?

    Dialogue is a good thing. Dialogue is the last thing these people want though.
  • sourdoughsourdough Posts: 579
    Seriously. Is dialogue not a good thing?
    HONEST dialogue is a good thing. Distortion of facts and lies are only hurtful.
  • WMA wrote:
    Moore gave permission for F 9/11 to be pirated on the internet so long as the people pirating don't make a profit. Doesn't sound like someone completely consumed by money to me.



    from http://www.sundayherald.com/43167

    yeah, he said that while he was making millions off of it. when he was sitting beside jimmy carter at the convention...did you think, "yeah, thats going to help the party"?? heck no, everybody knew that made the dems look nutty
    to the american public. moore knows this too, but he don't care because it gave him credibility amongst his target audience..the far left. he is a good film maker, and a smart businessman. he's just real bad at lying.
  • I don't know why people attack this guy's credentials. People on the other end of the political spectrum did the same thing to Moore, and then everyone freaked out about free speech, "the truth", etc.
    Seriously. Is dialogue not a good thing?

    Well, the guy was apparently fired by a congressional office when he was found to have doctored evidence. That's a step up from Michael Moore's brand of propaganda.
    "Of course it hurts. You're getting fucked by an elephant."
  • WMAWMA Posts: 175
    I didn't even see F 9/11 myself.

    The logic is completely flawed that allowing piracy was going to help him financially though. I bet it completely killed DVD sales (is there a dvd?...dunno), plus giving the ok caused people who normally don't download movies etc. the drive to do it I'm sure.

    Sure, it was a huge movie with lots of advertising done by the news, but I'm sure he could've made a ton more by not allowing that to happen, If that was the motivation behind it.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    sourdough wrote:
    HONEST dialogue is a good thing. Distortion of facts and lies are only hurtful.

    So you're not much of a Moore fan either, then?
  • sourdoughsourdough Posts: 579
    So you're not much of a Moore fan either, then?
    No, not really. He is manipulative and dishonest. I'm not sure what lies he actually tells, but its more tricks of his videography that coerces the audience to imply something that didn't happen. I have watched his films and I do think he does make some valid claims, but I don't think he is always honest in his arguments. I used to really like him, but I am much more skeptical of my sources now.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    sourdough wrote:
    No, not really. He is manipulative and dishonest. I'm not sure what lies he actually tells, but its more tricks of his videography that coerces the audience to imply something that didn't happen. I have watched his films and I do think he does make some valid claims, but I don't think he is always honest in his arguments. I used to really like him, but I am much more skeptical of my sources now.

    I agree, I don't know if he lies per se. But yes, errors of omission, speculation, hinting, misleading presentations of the facts, attempts to manipulate emotions. He does these things ... And I am guessing this new guy will use them as well.
  • this had to be expected. if a left wing propagandist can become a millionaire off of making films full of lies, wouldn't you expect somebody that is equally extreme on the other side to try it?

    please site the lies in F911

    then prove it with major news sources

    See it's not good enough to say Moore lied then not have proof to back it up.

    I'm not saying that there's not distortion and "cherry picking" of facts in F911

    but I guess moore figured that the president did it to get us into iraq...
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    sourdough wrote:
    No, not really. He is manipulative and dishonest. I'm not sure what lies he actually tells, but its more tricks of his videography that coerces the audience to imply something that didn't happen. I have watched his films and I do think he does make some valid claims, but I don't think he is always honest in his arguments. I used to really like him, but I am much more skeptical of my sources now.

    That's pretty much what I think. There are a lot of examples of sensationalism in his movie. While they are not "lies" they are misleading and if he did not think he was going to get called out on it and that it would weaken his message, he was pretty naive.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • Uncle LeoUncle Leo Posts: 1,059
    yeah, he said that while he was making millions off of it. when he was sitting beside jimmy carter at the convention...did you think, "yeah, thats going to help the party"?? heck no, everybody knew that made the dems look nutty
    to the american public. moore knows this too, but he don't care because it gave him credibility amongst his target audience..the far left. he is a good film maker, and a smart businessman. he's just real bad at lying.

    He WAS making a lot of money off it, but greed usually drives people to squeeze out every cent and he said he was ok with the piracy, perhaps because he wanted to get his message out and "I am making a shit load anyway." Most people simply want a bigger shit load.

    And if anyone thinks that additional piracy would not cost him any money, just look at Metallica's behaivor in the digital music age.

    As for him hurting the dems (thus providing evidence that he is about money only), he is not a democrat. Al Franken and James Carville are democrats, but he constantly criticizes the democrats for caving into the GOP and being (slightly less) conservative so perhaps he does not feel it is beneficial to help the party.
    I cannot come up with a new sig till I get this egg off my face.
  • this had to be expected. if a left wing propagandist can become a millionaire off of making films full of lies, wouldn't you expect somebody that is equally extreme on the other side to try it?

    All conservatives are extreme and it is NOT propaganda unless it is spread by a political figure or party.
    "Feel it rising, yeah next stop falling!"

    <a href=http://www.topcomments.com><img src=http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r114/tcbm7/img/other/44.gif title="MySpace Comments" border=0></a><br><left><a href='http://www.topcomments.com'><font size="2">MySpace Comments</font></a></left>
  • All conservatives are extreme

    Care to even attempt to justify that one?
  • not4unot4u Posts: 512
    moore is closer to the common good.
    we don't want war, but we still want more?
  • not4u wrote:
    moore is closer to the common good.

    And by "common" you mean what?
  • sourdoughsourdough Posts: 579
    please site the lies in F911

    then prove it with major news sources

    See it's not good enough to say Moore lied then not have proof to back it up.

    I'm not saying that there's not distortion and "cherry picking" of facts in F911

    but I guess moore figured that the president did it to get us into iraq...
    I won't go so far and say he "lied" but he does decieve. Case in point, the scene where he tries to get members of congress to sign up their kids for military service. He talks to one congressman who looks at Moore like he's crazy, then the video switches, making teh congressman look bad, however, what Moore doesn't show is that after the camera is turned off, the congressman says "ok" and signs the sheet. that was strategically not shown. No lie, but tells only a part of a story and makes him look like a goon.
  • sourdough wrote:
    I won't go so far and say he "lied" but he does decieve. Case in point, the scene where he tries to get members of congress to sign up their kids for military service. He talks to one congressman who looks at Moore like he's crazy, then the video switches, making teh congressman look bad, however, what Moore doesn't show is that after the camera is turned off, the congressman says "ok" and signs the sheet. that was strategically not shown. No lie, but tells only a part of a story and makes him look like a goon.
    Where did you see that congressman signing up his child for military service and what was the congressman's name?

    Also, if anything, there has been more evidence of misrepresentation in their case for war by the Bush Administration since Moore's F911 movie came out. Except for the case you site above, (which I would like to see), I haven't seen one major news story flat out refuting what was in Moore's film.

    What about the paid "propaganda planting" in the Iraqi newspapers that were pro American by this administration? What about the complaints by BushCo that the media was only portraying the "bad" news of the Iraq war, when it was actually much worse than any media outlet portrayed? What about the White House allowing Jeff Gannon to be an "official White House Correspondent" who posed as an unbiased news reporter so he could write only positive news stories about this administration and try to defame Senator John Kerry? One of his articles was before the 2004 election was when he reported that a former Kerry intern had taped an interview with "one of the major television networks" to discuss her affair with the senator, an assertion that was completely false. The intern never appeared on television and never claimed to have had an affair with Kerry.

    If Michael Moore made false statements then I would be angry that I paid the price of admission to a bogus movie. But my tax dollars went to the the PR agency who planted the false good news stories. They went to a White House who gave the nod to that sham "reporter" Jeff Gannon instead of a reputable reporter to get positive propaganda. They went to an administration who alters documents so scientests reports of global warming don't look that bad. They go to a White House that lied to us so we would agree to the Bush/Cheney oil war. And yet everyone is down Michael Moore's back for putting out a movie that no one can put their finger on an actual lie he told. Huh?
    "Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand

    "Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
    But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
  • not4unot4u Posts: 512
    And by "common" you mean what?

    making the more moraly correct decisions. Away from justifying greed and death.
    we don't want war, but we still want more?
  • not4u wrote:
    making the more moraly correct decisions. Away from justifying greed and death.

    So it's not greedy to demand that someone else provide for your "rights" at the expense of their own?

    Sorry, Michael Moore's message is the message of death. He lives by the creed of sacrifice. And too many people are all too willing to help build his altar.
Sign In or Register to comment.