O'Reilly sinks to a new low...
SuzannePjam
Posts: 411
What a scumbag. How could anybody watch him???
Bill O'Reilly refuses to apologize about his statements from this January 2006 interview on the Ben Ownby/Shawn Hornbeck Disappearance."
Bill O'Reilly: You know the Stockholm syndrome thing, I don't buy it, I never bought it, I don't think It happened in the Patty Hearst Case. I don't think it happened here...
Greta van Susteren: Woah, Can I just say something?
Bill O'Reilly: Yeah go ahead and jump in.
GVS: First of all we don't know all the facts, Don't forget that Elizabeth Smart likewise had an opportunity to leave and she did not. She was on the public street for some reason when young people are picked up and taken under the influence of adults they are very receptive of what adults do. So I would not dismiss the Stockholm syndrome --
BOR: The difference in the Smart case, and correct me if I am wrong, was this guy was always around the little girl and she wasn't gone for the long period of time as this guy was. Now what we have learned -- and this is why I don't believe in Stockholm -- this guy Shawn Hornbeck gone four years from 11-15. Authorities actually say that he taunted his own parents on his website. He's got these piercing this is a troubled kid in my opinion --
GVS: The piercings, a lot of kids do the piercings. As far as the taunting goes on the website I think what can be established is that someone on this particular login taunted the parents. Was it done from this particular computer? If it was done from this particular computer that means that Michael Devlin did it, or Shawn did it or someone with access to the computer... let's not forget he is a kid.... He may be 15 now...
BOR: No, I am not buying this if you're 11 years old or 12 years old or 13 and you have a strong bond with your family. Even if the guy threatens you this and that. You're riding your bike around, you got friends -- the kid didn't go to school. There's all kinds of stuff, if you can get away, you get away. If you're 11 --
GVS: Bill it seems bizarre to me, I agree it seems bizarre. Why not run, why not yell, why not scream? But the thing I keep going back to is, what was Patti Hearst's story...
BOR: I didn't buy that Patti Hearst story for a second.
GVS: Why was she so willing to sign up with her kidnappers and like wise Elizabeth Smart, she had opportunity -- nice kid, nice family, why was she unwilling to run...?
BOR: Let me answer your question. This is what I believe in the Hearst case and in this case. The situation that Hearst found herself in was exciting. She had a boring life, child of privilege. All of a sudden she's in with a bunch of charismatic thugs and she enjoyed it. The situation here with this kid is looks to me to be a lot more fun then when he had under his own parents. He didn't have to go to school, He could run around and do what he wanted.
GVS: Some kids like school --
BOR: Well I don't believe this kid did. And I think when it all comes down what's going to happen is there was an element here that this kid liked about his circumstances...
Bill O'Reilly refuses to apologize about his statements from this January 2006 interview on the Ben Ownby/Shawn Hornbeck Disappearance."
Bill O'Reilly: You know the Stockholm syndrome thing, I don't buy it, I never bought it, I don't think It happened in the Patty Hearst Case. I don't think it happened here...
Greta van Susteren: Woah, Can I just say something?
Bill O'Reilly: Yeah go ahead and jump in.
GVS: First of all we don't know all the facts, Don't forget that Elizabeth Smart likewise had an opportunity to leave and she did not. She was on the public street for some reason when young people are picked up and taken under the influence of adults they are very receptive of what adults do. So I would not dismiss the Stockholm syndrome --
BOR: The difference in the Smart case, and correct me if I am wrong, was this guy was always around the little girl and she wasn't gone for the long period of time as this guy was. Now what we have learned -- and this is why I don't believe in Stockholm -- this guy Shawn Hornbeck gone four years from 11-15. Authorities actually say that he taunted his own parents on his website. He's got these piercing this is a troubled kid in my opinion --
GVS: The piercings, a lot of kids do the piercings. As far as the taunting goes on the website I think what can be established is that someone on this particular login taunted the parents. Was it done from this particular computer? If it was done from this particular computer that means that Michael Devlin did it, or Shawn did it or someone with access to the computer... let's not forget he is a kid.... He may be 15 now...
BOR: No, I am not buying this if you're 11 years old or 12 years old or 13 and you have a strong bond with your family. Even if the guy threatens you this and that. You're riding your bike around, you got friends -- the kid didn't go to school. There's all kinds of stuff, if you can get away, you get away. If you're 11 --
GVS: Bill it seems bizarre to me, I agree it seems bizarre. Why not run, why not yell, why not scream? But the thing I keep going back to is, what was Patti Hearst's story...
BOR: I didn't buy that Patti Hearst story for a second.
GVS: Why was she so willing to sign up with her kidnappers and like wise Elizabeth Smart, she had opportunity -- nice kid, nice family, why was she unwilling to run...?
BOR: Let me answer your question. This is what I believe in the Hearst case and in this case. The situation that Hearst found herself in was exciting. She had a boring life, child of privilege. All of a sudden she's in with a bunch of charismatic thugs and she enjoyed it. The situation here with this kid is looks to me to be a lot more fun then when he had under his own parents. He didn't have to go to school, He could run around and do what he wanted.
GVS: Some kids like school --
BOR: Well I don't believe this kid did. And I think when it all comes down what's going to happen is there was an element here that this kid liked about his circumstances...
"Where there is sacrifice there is someone collecting the sacrificial offerings."-- Ayn Rand
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
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As far as his comments about this kidnapped boy. I think they are a little harsh considering we don't have all the facts, but he does have a point. We should just chalk it up to Stockholm Syndrome without really looking into the facts. Same goes for O'Reilly though. He should give up on the kid and label him a delinquent without looking at the facts.
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patty hearst is the granddaughter of william randloph hearst. she was kidnapped in 1974, while attending berkeley, by a group calling themseleves the simbionese liberation army. they kept her locked in a closet and were said to have eventually "brainwashed" her into coming around to their belief system. they started demanding things from the hearsts, including stuff like mass food donations to the poor...about 400$ million in food, i think. hearst only gave out 5$ million. then patty hearst started making taped announcements for them and sending them out to her parents...eventually helping the group rob banks and changing her name to "tania". she was caught, sentenced to two years in prison, and eventually got her sentence commuted by jimmy carter.
http://www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artID=469
but the illusion of knowledge.
~Daniel Boorstin
Only a life lived for others is worth living.
~Albert Einstein
why is he a scumbag? what should he apologize for?
Other than that, this is not the thing I'd go after O'Rielly for.
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Anyone with half a brain has asked themselves these very same questions. If you say you haven't then you're probably lying. LYING! O'Reilly just posed the questions that others are afraid to.
Sillyness about piercings aside, let's be realistic about this: according to what we know about this case there were opportunities aplenty to get away from that man. Computers are great things as are bicycles, the mailman, and random strangers.The kid even spoke to police about an unrelated criminal matter for God's sake. And most of know that if kids want or want to do something, they're are more than intelligient enough to make it happen.
So deal with it; this situation raises a hell of a lot more questions than it answers.
...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.
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Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
wow another great insightful post...
imo he behaved more like a liberal and took it up the rear.
Now THAT is classy !! Way to go Miller !
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
And that's what it appears O'Reilly is doing. Yes, this is a child and no, no one wants to blame the victim for being a victim. But I'm hard pressed to believe that there was absolutely nothing that he could have done to get away or that every single day out of each of those 4 years he had absolutely no options and no courage to change his circumstances.
...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.
FaceSpace
**** Post of the day ****
Freedom is Slavery
Ignorance is Strength
Are you one of those kids from that "Jesus Camp" documentary?
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
There's good questions and then theres being a jerk. It's like if a woman got raped, and a question posed is, "well... you were wearing a short skirt, weren't you asking for it?" we would all agree that question is irresponsible. Bill O says, "Well, this kid had piercings, and he didn't have to go to school, maybe he liked being with this pervert."
Many people say in cases of wife abuse, well, why didn't you leave when he started hitting you? Many women feel paralyzed and helpless and don't leave. You have to understand their mental state and what sort of abuse they went through with the abuser. In many cases they were abused as a CHILD and don't feel as if they deserve better. Many grown women don't leave their abusive partners as adults and are not constantly supervised by their husbands, yet you expect a young child who was terribly abused since he was 11 to just collect himself and raise his hand and say, O, yes, I need help.
Maybe he felt paralyzed by his attacker. Experts say he was probably told by Devlin that he would shoot his family if he tried to tell anyone. Or that he would find Shawn and come and shoot him. Or maybe he felt his family wouldn't love him if they knew he was being raped.
This abductor had a gun. He used torture techniques. The child was 11 when he was taken, for God's sake. And for Bill O'reilly to say "there was an element here that this kid liked about his circumstances..." when he was ripped away from his family and being sodomized and hurt on a regular basis is just asinine.
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
'maybes". Nothing other than the fact that he was abducted is concrete and sure....which is why I reserve a healthy bit of judgment.
And I and others have said that the bit about the piercings is silly; O'Reilly being O'Reilly , and sure he can be a jerk but I could care less about that or him (and I don't recall O'Reilly saying anything about "maybe he liked being with this pervert"), but that doesn't discount the weight of his questions.
Guns, torture techniques....that sounds reasonable (something that a *normal* abductor would do, yes?) but I didn't know any of that was public knowledge. Or is it more like speculation and/or assumption? Don't know.
Which is why, again, I reserve a healthy bit of judgment. And yes, call me crazy but I do expect him (at 11, 12, 13, 14, or 15 years old) to raise his hand and say I need help.
But that's just me.
...signed...the token black Pearl Jam fan.
FaceSpace
There was either a Newsweek article or an MSNBC article that gave a very detailed account of what they knew about the abductions. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow. The facts were that both children were abducted with the use of a gun, Shawn was sexually molested, Shawn was tortured the first week he was brought to Devlin's apt. by sleep deprivation.
Now, imagine yourself, I mean really picture yourself ripped away from your family at 11 YEARS OLD, terrified, tortured, brainwashed, and sexually molested. How paralyzed and helpless would you feel? How fucked up would you be? You can't possibly say how you would act unless you've been there. Here's a psychology professor's analysis of Shawn's and other childern who have been abducted on their mental state:
One question that has come up repeatedly since Shawn's story first came to light is why a boy who surfed the Web, owned a cell phone and rode a bike so freely that he had been stopped by police late at night didn't call out for help. Part of the answer, report Campo-Flores and Thomas, is that once separated from his parents, Shawn became completely dependent on Devlin for food, sleep, warmth, attention and affection. And he was almost surely threatened with gruesome consequences if he said a word about his abduction to anyone else. Child kidnappers "know how to create a paralyzing sense of fear so even when the captor is not present, the child feels he is omnipresent," says Dr. Terri Weaver, psychology professor at Saint Louis University. "Their mental package is very coercive, very convincing, very mean. They don't just say, 'I'll kill your family.' They tell how they'll do it in graphic detail and manner-how they'll kill the child's family and even pets."
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
I was dumb as hell when I was his age. I wouldn't expect much more from him.
-Enoch Powell
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16724481/site/newsweek/
"Some of my friends sit around every evening and they worry about the times ahead,
But everybody else is overwhelmed by indifference and the promise of an early bed..."-- Elvis Costello
What makes O'Reilly's comments so hard to swallow is that they come on the heels of his "Vermont tirade" about how Vermont supports pedophiles (if you dont think that's how he put it, go look on his website). In that instance, I almost found myself agreeing with him. Probation for molesting a four year old?
So I was surprised when Bill came out with this, but not completely. I have to wonder, though. Would he ever get on air and say that Natalie Holloway got what was coming because she was drunk and morally loose? Speculation? So it is in this case as well.
The Shawn Hornbeck case has been news in st. louis from the day he disappeared. The accepted theory was that he was hit on his bike and someone panicked and buried his body. So to have this happen, it was incredible.
Doesn't anyone remember being 15?! Maybe not accurately. At 15, your whole worldview is different. So maybe this kid decided to make the best of the situation. I can tell you, the area where he was living is dramatically different economic wise than where he was from. So who can honestly fault a CHILD for making the best of an obviously bad situation?
You can take my comments for what they're worth. Which is not much, since NONE of us knows what happened.
honestly man...these offenders deserve nothing less than the sweet release of death.