Is Your Fetus A Republican?

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Although I found this article hilarious, at the same time I have a problem with articles like these, that envision the future of "perfect" babies. I'm constantly fighting for the rights of those with disabilities, since my daughter has Down syndrome. What would happen, if people were allowed to choose traits for their children, is that we would wipe out everyone who has even the most miniscule deformity or disability.

Children who may not be born perfectly have generally a better attitude towards the world. These people who have much less than the average, normal joe, have attitudes that could brighten up a room with a simple smile. They aren't usually down with negativity that they aren't "perfect" like the rest of us, they have found the beauty of life in a very simple way. They literally have much to teach the rest of us. Without them in our world, I see a dismal and boringly perfect place, that's full of negativity.

I find it sickening that science would lead us to programing our future children like this.

im not trying to take any shots at your daughter... but can you explain to me the distinction between the following two scenarios:

1) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child, so she aborts it.

2) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child with down syndrome, so she aborts it.

in both cases, she is not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and is making a decision solely about her health, right?

surferdude

soulsinging wrote:

im not trying to take any shots at your daughter... but can you explain to me the distinction between the following two scenarios:

1) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child, so she aborts it.

2) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child with down syndrome, so she aborts it.

in both cases, she is not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and is making a decision solely about her health, right?

I'll jump in here and say I support a woman's right to choose, but think it's a choice that should almost never be taken. I think abortion in both your examples is a poor choice.

What I think will be interesting is if they do identify a gay gene is how the pro-choice factions will react to people who opt to have abortions based on this. After all in America 90% of pregnancies identified with Downs Syndrome fatus end in abortion and not a peep is said about this.

Trau

soulsinging wrote:

1) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child, so she aborts it.

2) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child with down syndrome, so she aborts it.

in both cases, she is not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and is making a decision solely about her health, right?

How are either of those based on the mother's health?

catefrances

Trau wrote:

How are either of those based on the mother's health?

when a women's mental health comes into play it is.

Trau

What kind of negative effects on mental health are we talking about?

catefrances

Trau wrote:

What kind of negative effects on mental health are we talking about?

some women, who are already prone to bouts of depression and anxiety, amongst other things, experience greater degrees of incapacity to cope when faced with such a situation. they experience changes within their bodies, and by that i mean mentally that when mixed with the hormonal changes brought on by pregnancy can be debilitating and sometimes fatal.

Kann

soulsinging wrote:

im not trying to take any shots at your daughter... but can you explain to me the distinction between the following two scenarios:

1) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child, so she aborts it.

2) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child with down syndrome, so she aborts it.

in both cases, she is not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and is making a decision solely about her health, right?

I disagree. The notion is vague but in one case it honestly sounds like eugenism. To refuse life to someone because you cannot live with someone different doesn't sound the same as refusing life to a "normal" baby. Eugenism is an extremely dangerous notion with very thin limits and the possibility to lead to inhumane extremism.
The difference may not be clear (nor my explanation) but it exists and it is dangerous.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

catefrances wrote:

when a women's mental health comes into play it is.

unfortunately for a lot of women the mental part seems to take precedence over the health part

soulsinging

Kann wrote:

I disagree. The notion is vague but in one case it honestly sounds like eugenism. To refuse life to someone because you cannot live with someone different doesn't sound the same as refusing life to a "normal" baby. Eugenism is an extremely dangerous notion with very thin limits and the possibility to lead to inhumane extremism.
The difference may not be clear (nor my explanation) but it exists and it is dangerous.

i dont see it. it's not like they're aborting the baby becos of its eye or hair color. it's becos they dont feel they're capable of responding to the challenge of raising a child who has special needs. that to me doesn't seem too different from feeling incapable of responding to the challenge of raising a child who has normal needs. in either case, you dont think you're able to give the child the upbringing it deserves, which is the standard abortion argument.

Jeanwah

soulsinging wrote:

im not trying to take any shots at your daughter... but can you explain to me the distinction between the following two scenarios:

1) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child, so she aborts it.

2) girl gets pregnant and feels she is not prepared to raise a child with down syndrome, so she aborts it.

in both cases, she is not ready for the responsibility of parenthood and is making a decision solely about her health, right?

Choosing to abort your baby because you simply don't want it, is completely different to aborting your baby because ultrasounds show that he/she has Down syndrome. The law states that if the baby shows to have Down syndrome, you can very easily abort, no questions asked, and in most cases, the doctors even push for it. It is widely accepted here and around the world. I feel this is wrong. It is not a good enough reason to abort, based solely on the diagnosis itself. This practice encourages a eugenic society, and until doctors are forced to give the positive aspects (instead of weighing heavily on the negative, which most do) of having a child with the disability, we will continue to prove that society already operates on having that "perfect" child. Those with Down syndrome should not be treated horribly differently than any normal un-born baby, child or adult, except that they do require more care.

Treatment for Down syndrome has come a long way since the days of institutionalizing those w/ the disability. My daughter, for instance has had numerous services given to her for free, and now is under a Medicaid program where she gets additional medical coverage. She is thriving and will be mainstreamed into a normal kindergarten with her peers at the age of 5. (She's 3 now).

I hear of women everywhere who want a baby so badly, but will abort the minute DS comes in the picture. They don't research it, they don't know anyone with it. They only hear what they want to hear, and that's usually that they don't have to keep it if they don't want it. It's about selection.

Kann wrote:

Eugenism is an extremely dangerous notion with very thin limits and the possibility to lead to inhumane extremism.
The difference may not be clear (nor my explanation) but it exists and it is dangerous.

You're absolutely right.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Choosing to abort your baby because you simply don't want it, is completely different to aborting your baby because ultrasounds show that he/she has Down syndrome. The law states that if the baby shows to have Down syndrome, you can very easily abort, no questions asked, and in most cases, the doctors even push for it. It is widely accepted here and around the world. I feel this is wrong. It is not a good enough reason to abort, based solely on the diagnosis itself. This practice encourages a eugenic society, and until doctors are forced to give the positive aspects (instead of weighing heavily on the negative, which most do) of having a child with the disability, we will continue to prove that society already operates on having that "perfect" child. Those with Down syndrome should not be treated horribly differently than any normal un-born baby, child or adult, except that they do require more care.

Treatment for Down syndrome has come a long way since the days of institutionalizing those w/ the disability. My daughter, for instance has had numerous services given to her for free, and now is under a Medicaid program where she gets additional medical coverage. She is thriving and will be mainstreamed into a normal kindergarten with her peers at the age of 5. (She's 3 now).

I hear of women everywhere who want a baby so badly, but will abort the minute DS comes in the picture. They don't research it, they don't know anyone with it. They only hear what they want to hear, and that's usually that they don't have to keep it if they don't want it. It's about selection.

You're absolutely right.

im not sure i believe that. it is crossing a thin line. but honestly, if i discovered my child had down syndrome, id want to consider. not becos i want a perfect child, but simply becos i dont think id be up to the task of properly caring for a child with special needs, emotionally or financially. i dont really see how that is wholly different from a woman who is 19 and gets pregnant and feels she's not up to the task of properly caring for her child either.

Jeanwah

surferdude wrote:

What I think will be interesting is if they do identify a gay gene is how the pro-choice factions will react to people who opt to have abortions based on this. After all in America 90% of pregnancies identified with Downs Syndrome fatus end in abortion and not a peep is said about this.

Perhaps if this gay gene is found to be indentifiable, then the Down syndrome angle will get more light and will finally get more attention.

I know that personally, I wouldn't have a problem w/ my child being gay. At the same time, is it really important enough to need to know ahead of time? I think that's the main absurdity of the original article.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

Perhaps if this gay gene is found to be indentifiable, then the Down syndrome angle will get more light and will finally get more attention.

I know that personally, I wouldn't have a problem w/ my child being gay. At the same time, is it really important enough to need to know ahead of time? I think that's the main absurdity of the original article.

for some neocons, they'd no doubt be aborting gay fetuses. which is ironic. i hope they find it. it wil put them in a tough spot: they'll either suddenly change on abortion and admit that being gay is not a choice, or they'll have to cope with some seriously fucked up kids when they attempt to mold them as they grow up to suppress their innate gayness.

Jeanwah

soulsinging wrote:

i dont see it. it's not like they're aborting the baby becos of its eye or hair color. it's becos they dont feel they're capable of responding to the challenge of raising a child who has special needs. that to me doesn't seem too different from feeling incapable of responding to the challenge of raising a child who has normal needs. in either case, you dont think you're able to give the child the upbringing it deserves, which is the standard abortion argument.

It is different if you were happy about your pregnancy until you found out there could be something possibly wrong with your baby, whether it's DS or something else. It has everything to do w/ the mother's mindframe, whether it's got to do with the child's upbringing or not. Many a times, it has nothing to do with the child's possible upbringing.

I'm trying to see where you're coming from. You're obviously pro-life, correct? You're trying to group the two together based on the "standard" argument you mentioned, but you've got to remember that every woman and every reason is going to be different. It does come down to a choice, not a standard arguement, and it's not always about the welfare of the baby. My stance on the DS issue is from a eugenic and awareness point of view, since I'm an advocate for my daughter.

catefrances

soulsinging wrote:

i know id abort if i found out my kid would grow up to be a republican neocon.

and here i was thinking i was the only person thinking this.

soulsinging

Jeanwah wrote:

It is different if you were happy about your pregnancy until you found out there could be something possibly wrong with your baby, whether it's DS or something else. It has everything to do w/ the mother's mindframe, whether it's got to do with the child's upbringing or not. Many a times, it has nothing to do with the child's possible upbringing.

I'm trying to see where you're coming from. You're obviously pro-life, correct? You're trying to group the two together based on the "standard" argument you mentioned, but you've got to remember that every woman and every reason is going to be different. It does come down to a choice, not a standard arguement, and it's not always about the welfare of the baby. My stance on the DS issue is from a eugenic and awareness point of view, since I'm an advocate for my daughter.

no, im pro-choice. im just not seeing how you can make a practical distinction. you're talking about a difference in motivation, but how do you enforce that? you can't know what someone's thinking or why they've decided to abort.

cincybearcat

Every fetus is republican.

catefrances

cincybearcat wrote:

Every fetus is republican.

i recall a time when i could have been described as somewhat of a republican. but then i got a pill for that ailment and now i'm all better.

cincybearcat

catefrances wrote:

i recall a time when i could have been described as somewhat of a republican. but then i got a pill for that ailment and now i'm all better.

Is that one of those magic "stupid" pills?

Any fetus that's a democrat is suicidal.

soulsinging

cincybearcat wrote:

Is that one of those magic "stupid" pills?

Any fetus that's a democrat is suicidal.

any fetus that's a republican is a murderer