War in the Middle East

2

Comments

  • rationalthought
    rationalthought Posts: 15
    danmac wrote:
    Could you please research your chosen subject before speaking in public.

    Hezbollah is a Lebanese Political organisation, operating within Lebanon, defending itself from a foreign invader. They don't even have cordial links with Syria anymore.

    Move along. Next?

    Because Israel was invading Lebanon before they captured two soldiers? When you try to recall a timeline, please don't do it backwards.
  • even flow?
    even flow? Posts: 8,066
    I think it is funny how the calvary shows up in a time of need. But then again I wouldn't expect less from perfection.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • danmac
    danmac Posts: 387
    rationalthought wrote:
    Because Israel was invading Lebanon before they captured two soldiers? When you try to recall a timeline, please don't do it backwards.


    The 2 captured soldiers were conducting military operations. As was Shilit who was captured in Gaza three weeks ago. Prisoners of war, in anybodys eyes, and the 1948 Geneva Convention, but the blood thirsty Israeli Governments.
    A tyrant must put on the appearance of uncommon devotion to religion. Subjects
    are less apprehensive of illegal treatment from a ruler whom they consider
    god-fearing and pious: Aristotle

    Viva Zapatista!
  • NCfan
    NCfan Posts: 945
    danmac wrote:
    Could you please research your chosen subject before speaking in public.

    Hezbollah is a Lebanese Political organisation, operating within Lebanon, defending itself from a foreign invader. They don't even have cordial links with Syria anymore.

    Move along. Next?

    Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, operating all over the Middle East. Sure, I can agree that they are a "political party" in Lebanon. They are very much like the Nazi "political party" in `1930/1940 Germany - they both want to destroy Jews.

    You are so misguided. You condem Israel, yet you give Hezbollah a free pass?!?!
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I'm not totally anti-Israel, but they gotta rein it in a little... Destroying powerplants in civilian areas, destrying Lebanon's only international airport and blockading the seaports? They just escalated into a full blown Israel-Lebanon war overnight.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Rue D'Awakening
    Rue D'Awakening Posts: 143
    Attacked
    by the Editors
    Post date: 07.13.06
    Issue date: 07.24.06

    There are crises that complicate and crises that clarify. The crisis along Israel's southern and northern frontiers is of the latter sort. Hamas and Hezbollah, in accordance with their lunatic assumption that the worse, the better, crossed an internationally recognized border and killed and have taken hostage soldiers of the neighboring state whose existence they despise. The attacks were unprovoked, except by the attackers' view of the world. Israel has rightly chosen to regard these provocations very seriously, and so far it has earned the sympathy of decent observers everywhere.

    What has been clarified by this round of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is, first and foremost, the character of Israel's adversaries. They are Islamist terrorists, and proud to be so. More ominously, they are Islamist terrorists come to power. Hamas is no longer only a movement; it is now also a government. In the months since Hamas was elected by the Palestinians to govern (or misgovern) them, the regime of Ismail Haniyeh and company has presided over the launching of hundreds of Qassam rockets into Israel, applauded a suicide bombing at a Tel Aviv restaurant (it would have been hypocritical of them not to applaud it!), allowed an unprecedented escalation of the conflict with the firing of a souped-up rocket into Ashkelon--the first time such a strike has been made against a major Israeli city--and, of course, kidnapped Corporal Gilad Shalit. All of this, again, is the work of a government. When Hamas was elected, there was an eruption of assurances in the media that power will breed responsibility, that the drudgeries of governing will usurp the ecstasies of bombing, and so on. "Hamas?" the headline on the cover of The New York Review of Books asked hopefully. But the Hamas rulers of Palestine have made it plain that they see no contradiction between governing and bombing. Success at the ballot box has had no calming effect. It has merely conferred political legitimacy upon moral depravity.

    Hezbollah, of course, is not a government, but it is a part of a government. Its freedom of action, its unreconstructed radicalism, its pervasive presence in Lebanese politics: All this brings to mind nasty memories of a few decades ago, so that it is not incorrect to say that, over the last 30 years, Lebanon has exchanged a PLO mini-state within its borders for a Hezbollah mini-state within its borders. When Shalit was kidnapped, Hamas cited the precedent of Hezbollah's kidnappings (and prisoner-exchanges) in the past, as if in exoneration of its own extortion. Hezbollah has always been Hamas's teacher in the great madrassa of anti-Israeli terrorism. Now the teacher has taken a cue from the student and taken its own Israeli hostages. Israel must now remind its adversaries that it was deadly in earnest when, decades ago, it proclaimed that it would tolerate no such aggression along its northern border.

    There is also a larger strategic dimension to the Hamas-Hezbollah offensive. These provocations stink of Assad and Ahmadinejad. The Hamas action in Gaza appears to have been ordered by Khaled Meshal, the Hamas leader who resides in Damascus--which is to say, it is also a piece of Syrian intrigue. Nor can anything of significance take place in Lebanon without the sanction of Damascus; and Hezbollah enjoys not only the toleration of Syria but also the time-honored support of Iran, which is also Syria's great ally in a region that may be otherwise turning in a better direction. Perhaps Meshal's responsibility for the Gaza attack will now allow Haniyeh to masquerade as a moderate. (The Washington Post this week published an op-ed by Haniyeh that was full of outrageous assertions. It seems that an election is all that stands between terrorism and punditry.)

    It is also worth noting that the Hamas-Hezbollah aggression is aimed at damaging precisely those political forces in Israel--now represented by Ehud Olmert's government--that withdrew Israeli settlers from Gaza and is committed to withdrawing Israeli settlers (70,000 of them) from the West Bank. It was one of the great ironies of recent times that Olmert's party rose in Israel at the exact moment that Hamas rose in Palestine; but the irony has turned deadly. They, the Palestinians, really do want everything. And so they are about to learn, yet again, that, as long as they want everything, they will get nothing. This may satisfy the nihilists in charge, since nihilists live for nothing.
    Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism

    Most antizionists are antisemites
  • jammin1586
    jammin1586 Posts: 39
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Military incursions against militant terrorists who continually provoke Israel are not what I would call "genocidal actions".

    Exactly. I hate this f'ng ultra-idealism and holier-than-thou attitude taken up by some liberals. If you had a country under constant TERRORIST attack (the key being that your CIVILIANS are targeted, Israel RETALIATES against militants exclusively) you would get fed up and begin getting more aggressive. Kudos to Israel for having the balls to defend its people, and to all you people who hate the U.S. / Israel for the pure sake of being anti-establishment and "imperialism"....grrr...
    Current Favorite PJ Studio Albums:
    1) Vitalogy
    2) Yield
    3) Ten
    4) No Code
    5) Riot Act
    6) Vs.
    7) Pearl Jam
    8) Binaural
  • jammin1586
    jammin1586 Posts: 39
    NCfan wrote:
    Hezbollah is a terrorist organization, operating all over the Middle East. Sure, I can agree that they are a "political party" in Lebanon. They are very much like the Nazi "political party" in `1930/1940 Germany - they both want to destroy Jews.

    You are so misguided. You condem Israel, yet you give Hezbollah a free pass?!?!


    This occurs ALL OVER THE MEDIA. People just hate the status quo for the hell of it. I'm sure Hezbollah must be decent people ::sarcasm:: , being they target civilians and all. In my book, as soon as a group targets civilians they are crossing the line. How can you trust a political party that knowingly does such things? What does that say about their moral center? Israel goes after the bad ones, and when there is collateral damage, the media blows it out of proportion and make it seem as though the Palestinians/Lebanese/etc. are the victims.
    Current Favorite PJ Studio Albums:
    1) Vitalogy
    2) Yield
    3) Ten
    4) No Code
    5) Riot Act
    6) Vs.
    7) Pearl Jam
    8) Binaural
  • jammin1586
    jammin1586 Posts: 39
    danmac wrote:
    ...but the blood thirsty Israeli Governments.

    You know what, I agree with you on the bloodthirsty part. Like so:

    Israel = Bloodthirsty for cowardly terrorists who keep jamming up the gears of the peace process.

    Hezbollah = Bloodthirsty for INNOCENT PEOPLE, who have nothing to do with the actual establishment of Israel's borders.

    Personally, I choose the former.
    Current Favorite PJ Studio Albums:
    1) Vitalogy
    2) Yield
    3) Ten
    4) No Code
    5) Riot Act
    6) Vs.
    7) Pearl Jam
    8) Binaural
  • IWishIWasASailor
    IWishIWasASailor Posts: 129
    But don't debate Dan. If you disagree with him you need "education"

    Sounds like an immature little man afraid of debate.
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    jammin1586 wrote:
    Exactly. I hate this f'ng ultra-idealism and holier-than-thou attitude taken up by some liberals. If you had a country under constant TERRORIST attack (the key being that your CIVILIANS are targeted, Israel RETALIATES against militants exclusively) you would get fed up and begin getting more aggressive. Kudos to Israel for having the balls to defend its people, and to all you people who hate the U.S. / Israel for the pure sake of being anti-establishment and "imperialism"....grrr...

    Israel retaliates agains militants exclusively?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • jammin1586
    jammin1586 Posts: 39
    Yes. Any civilians killed are ACCIDENTAL. Israel's enemies make it a point to go after civilians (see: bus bombings).

    You think you can easily prevent hundred pound explosives from causing collateral damage? I'd like to see that.
    Current Favorite PJ Studio Albums:
    1) Vitalogy
    2) Yield
    3) Ten
    4) No Code
    5) Riot Act
    6) Vs.
    7) Pearl Jam
    8) Binaural
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    jammin1586 wrote:
    Yes. Any civilians killed are ACCIDENTAL. Israel's enemies make it a point to go after civilians (see: bus bombings).

    You think you can easily prevent hundred pound explosives from causing collateral damage? I'd like to see that.

    then why be so careless with houndred pound explosives? and taking out power plants in places were cilivians live, isn't that targeting civilians? maybe not to kill them, but definatly to damage them or break them.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    danmac wrote:
    Ahh the westenr media myth makers know no bounds. These soldiers weren't kidnapped, or seized, or any of that bullshit. They were captured in war, on foriegn territory (if its even possible to call Gaza foriegn territory) whilst undergoing military operations against Palestinians in Gaza and the Lebanese in Lebanon. They were captured, and under the terms of Geneve convention, treated humanely and offered for release in exchange for other POWs.

    Is that why members of the IRA were jailed as criminals instead of POW's by Britiain? What were the internment camps all about then? I guess the SAS hit squads were just out having a little fun. Point that finger at your own country and its bloody history before throwing rocks at Israel.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    danmac wrote:
    The 2 captured soldiers were conducting military operations. As was Shilit who was captured in Gaza three weeks ago. Prisoners of war, in anybodys eyes, and the 1948 Geneva Convention, but the blood thirsty Israeli Governments.


    Again, research your history in Northern Ireland. Could britain, gasp, be an occupying army under your definitions?
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jammin1586 wrote:
    Yes. Any civilians killed are ACCIDENTAL. Israel's enemies make it a point to go after civilians (see: bus bombings).

    You think you can easily prevent hundred pound explosives from causing collateral damage? I'd like to see that.


    do you think you can prevent white phospherous from causing collateral damage?
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    jammin1586 wrote:
    Exactly. I hate this f'ng ultra-idealism and holier-than-thou attitude taken up by some liberals. If you had a country under constant TERRORIST attack (the key being that your CIVILIANS are targeted, Israel RETALIATES against militants exclusively) you would get fed up and begin getting more aggressive. Kudos to Israel for having the balls to defend its people, and to all you people who hate the U.S. / Israel for the pure sake of being anti-establishment and "imperialism"....grrr...


    israel kills 5 palestinian children for every 1 israeli child killed by a palesitinian. for adults, i believe, it's a 3:1 ratio. maybe you can try and rationalize all 3 of those adults are terrorists or just a mistake...but the 5:1 is horrific. also a large % of palesitinian children live in severe malnutrition b/c of the actions of israel
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    blackredyellow wrote:
    I'm not totally anti-Israel, but they gotta rein it in a little... Destroying powerplants in civilian areas, destrying Lebanon's only international airport and blockading the seaports? They just escalated into a full blown Israel-Lebanon war overnight.

    How else are the Israelis supposed to fight Hezbollah? Maybe if Hezbollah weren't a bunch of rats that have to scurry back to the safety of hiding behind civilians, Israel would have better options to fight them.
  • thankyougrandma
    thankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    The Illinoisemakers wrote:
    How else are the Israelis supposed to fight Hezbollah? Maybe if Hezbollah weren't a bunch of rats that have to scurry back to the safety of hiding behind civilians, Israel would have better options to fight them.

    How about providing weapons to Lebanon govt., and Palestinians govt. to erase the terrorist problem?
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • The Illinoisemakers
    The Illinoisemakers Posts: 461
    thankyougrandma wrote:
    How about providing weapons to Lebanon govt., and Palestinians govt. to erase the terrorist problem?

    I'm not sure that arming the terrorists is the best way to stop them.

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