Honestly, I hate the fact that oil execs are bulging their pockets with profits, but part of me is glad that oil is more expensive. If oil is more expensive than maybe in the long run this may help us kick the oil addiction. More and more people are re-discovering public transit, walking or biking to work. That is a good thing in my mind. SUV sales have crashed and there is a much higher push for fuel efficient cars. These are good side effects.
There has never been a better opportunity for greener energy sources to ply their goods than now. Let's hope they are up to the challenge.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
"I still wonder how easy it would be to life a life "free" of oil...can any one help me out with this one...?"
Start by lowering your dependence on oil. If it's less than 20 miles start biking. If you are in any kind of shape you should be able to knock off 20 miles in less than an hour. Take as much public transportation as possible. When you feel you reaaly have no alternative but to drive carpool.
"oh yeah, one final question, the price of gas...is it due to supply and demand or manipulation of supply...?"
Does it matter. It's not illegal or unethical to manipulate supply. No more so than it is illegal or unethical for consumers to manipulate demand.
"if it's manipulation of a product that is the life-blood of the economy of the US, I would have to question that practice...."
Well if I was the US economy I'd start diversifying my source of energy. Putting all your eggs in on ebasket is just plain stupid.
"keep paying those prices and be happy about it..."
Why would I let things I have no control over upset me? Things I have no control over can either make me happy (a nice sunset) or I accept and get on with my life.
perhaps you missed my personal change that I'm making, which is pursuing the use of Biodiesel...when it comes to riding a bike, I'm unsure were you live, but the in the town I live in, traffic is dangerous enough in a car...but that's ok...it's my choice to drive rather that die...
and the putting the eggs into one basket...yes, it's stupid, I agree...but I think lobby moneys and the Energy Policy Task Force conducted with Cheney may have something to do with that...
and finally, as for acceptance, I wonder why you can't accept the fact that the cost of gas is an issue for some and that some don't accept the manipulation of prices....of which you say doesn't matter...I guess honesty doesn't matter is business...i.e., supply and command or manipulation...either way, it would be nice to know...
Look...when this war started the "No Blood For Oil" crowd was running around saying that the war was about lowering the price of oil to $10/g so that we could all pay $.50 for gas. Now that they're seeing how wrong they were they're all running around saying that the war was found to send oil up to $70/g so that the oil execs could get rich.
Oil certainly plays a role in this conflict. But it ain't the reason. We all would have been better off with "No Blood for Fear" t-shirts.
i was at those protests ... and i don't recall anyone saying that was the motive ... it doesn't take sherlock to figure out middle east instability will drive up the price of oil ... everyone knew that a war in iraq would drive up the price ...
edit: and as far as green energy ... as long as we continue to subsidize oil - it will always be hard for green energy to compete ... its still not even close to being a fair playing field ...
i was at those protests ... and i don't recall anyone saying that was the motive ... it doesn't take sherlock to figure out middle east instability will drive up the price of oil ... everyone knew that a war in iraq would drive up the price ...
Hehe....but they weren't fixating on "middle east stability" or oil companies then. They were fixating on what they thought was "inevitable": America's takeover of Iraqi oil fields.
edit: and as far as green energy ... as long as we continue to subsidize oil - it will always be hard for green energy to compete ... its still not even close to being a fair playing field ...
This is an excellent point. Subsidies to the oil industry are a complete and total waste. Removing them really isn't going to help green energy in its current form, but it should be done regardless.
and the putting the eggs into one basket...yes, it's stupid, I agree...but I think lobby moneys and the Energy Policy Task Force conducted with Cheney may have something to do with that...
By the time this happened, those eggs were already rotten.
Hehe....but they weren't fixating on "middle east stability" or oil companies then. They were fixating on what they thought was "inevitable": America's takeover of Iraqi oil fields.
well ... how the heck do you think these guys have made their profits?? ...
well ... how the heck do you think these guys have made their profits?? ...
manufactured war = big profits
They made the profit because they sold a product for a price that people were willing to buy and they did not waste the money they brought in with regard to these sales. Efficiency and low costs are generally a big part of profit as well. I've seen plenty of companies that had bigtime sales numbers, but struggled to make a profit.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
well ... how the heck do you think these guys have made their profits?? ...
By selling a product that is the lifeblood of the world economy, of course. By selling a product whose price is skyrocketing because of threats to supply and a massive growth in demand in emerging markets like China and India. The price of oil is not just based on supply and it's not just based on demand. It's based on the interaction between those two forces.
By selling a product that is the lifeblood of the world economy, of course. By selling a product whose price is skyrocketing because of threats to supply and a massive growth in demand in emerging markets like China and India. The price of oil is not just based on supply and it's not just based on demand. It's based on the interaction between those two forces.
exactly ... and those conditions would not have happened without this war ...
we can say it's a fine coincidence for the oil barrons but the legitimacy of this war is beyone debate ... manufactured war ... for this reason amongst others ...
Yet just more proof that Americans are really fucking stupid. I for one am excited for gas prices to sky-rocket even more. Then maybe we'll wise up and focus on renewable energy. I mean really focus on it. Or even in the short term just be more efficient and energy conscious.
exactly ... and those conditions would not have happened without this war ...
Sure. But that fact does not mean "those conditions" are the reason for the war. Look, just because 9/11 led to the highest ever donations to the Red Cross doesn't mean that Osama Bin Laden was getting Red Cross payola. Just because the adjusted price of crude oil hit its highest peak in 1980 following the Iranian Revolution doesn't mean that BP/Amoco was behind the Iranian Revolution.
we can say it's a fine coincidence for the oil barrons but the legitimacy of this war is beyone debate ... manufactured war ... for this reason amongst others ...
The "legitimacy" of this war is not "beyond debatable" -- it's debated here pretty much everyday and numerous sides promote valid viewpoints. Furthermore, all wars are "manufactured" in that they are done for reasons specific to the people who start them. Those reasons are not as simple as oil blood money. Oil blood money probably had very little, if anything, to do with it. Blind fear was the driving motivation of this war.
Sure. But that fact does not mean "those conditions" are the reason for the war. Look, just because 9/11 led to the highest ever donations to the Red Cross doesn't mean that Osama Bin Laden was getting Red Cross payola. Just because the adjusted price of crude oil hit its highest peak in 1980 following the Iranian Revolution doesn't mean that BP/Amoco was behind the Iranian Revolution.
how much influence does the red cross have over gov't decisions?? ... now, how much influence do ex oil barrons have?? ... this is the big difference ...
The "legitimacy" of this war is not "beyond debatable" -- it's debated here pretty much everyday and numerous sides promote valid viewpoints. Furthermore, all wars are "manufactured" in that they are done for reasons specific to the people who start them. Those reasons are not as simple as oil blood money. Oil blood money probably had very little, if anything, to do with it. Blind fear was the driving motivation of this war.
i am not saying it was just oil ... there are defence contractors that need to be paid off too ... look at the ties this administration has - and it is just a coincidence that those ties are all benefiting by misguided decisions by these folks?
there is no moral legitimacy for this war ... manufactured for the benefit of those this administration acts on behalf of ...
Yet just more proof that Americans are really fucking stupid. I for one am excited for gas prices to sky-rocket even more. Then maybe we'll wise up and focus on renewable energy. I mean really focus on it. Or even in the short term just be more efficient and energy conscious.
i agree....but do not limit my label of "stupidity" to just Americans. My only concern with rising gas prices is the effect it has on many people with a fixed income.
i look forward to the day when another bike rider flips me off for riding my bike too slow in the fast lane.:)
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
i agree....but do not limit my label of "stupidity" to just Americans. My only concern with rising gas prices is the effect it has on many people with a fixed income.
i look forward to the day when another bike rider flips me off for riding my bike too slow in the fast lane.:)
Yeah I agree Americans are not the only people guzzling the gasoline.....
i agree....but do not limit my label of "stupidity" to just Americans. My only concern with rising gas prices is the effect it has on many people with a fixed income.
i look forward to the day when another bike rider flips me off for riding my bike too slow in the fast lane.:)
Then people on fixed incomes should make themselves as independent from oil as they can. Sell the gas guzzling car, switch to alternative energy sources where possible.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Then people on fixed incomes should make themselves as independent from oil as they can. Sell the gas guzzling car, switch to alternative energy sources where possible.
i agree. all people should make themselves independent. but, you said it, "...make themselves as independent from oil as they can..." many of the elderly people i know made themselves as independent as they can when gas hit $2.00 per gallon. and have forgone specific medications to offset the cost. i understand people need to set their priorites and live with a decision.
a parrallel could be drawn that people on fixed incomes who can not afford their medications for their health ailments should make themselves as independent from prescriptions as they can.
regardless, specific populations need to use certain resources more than other populations. i am thankful that i am at an age and health currently that allows me to be independent of both.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
i agree. all people should make themselves independent. but, you said it, "...make themselves as independent from oil as they can..." many of the elderly people i know made themselves as independent as they can when gas hit $2.00 per gallon. and have forgone specific medications to offset the cost. i understand people need to set their priorites and live with a decision.
a parrallel could be drawn that people on fixed incomes who can not afford their medications for their health ailments should make themselves as independent from prescriptions as they can.
regardless, specific populations need to use certain resources more than other populations. i am thankful that i am at an age and health currently that allows me to be independent of both.
A lot of people on fixed incomes dont' like to face the facts. I see some living in the suburbs where a care is pretty much a requirement. I see people on arthritis medication for bad knees who do nothing about their weight. This is the type dependence that I'm tired of paying for or feeling soory for.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
A lot of people on fixed incomes dont' like to face the facts. I see some living in the suburbs where a care is pretty much a requirement. I see people on arthritis medication for bad knees who do nothing about their weight. This is the type dependence that I'm tired of paying for or feeling soory for.
gotta go.....i have enjoyed the conversation.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
A lot of people on fixed incomes dont' like to face the facts. I see some living in the suburbs where a care is pretty much a requirement. I see people on arthritis medication for bad knees who do nothing about their weight. This is the type dependence that I'm tired of paying for or feeling soory for.
again.....i agree with you on those who complain about gas or medication prices and could make a change to end their complaining.
the focus of the statement is on those who are unable to make a change. the people that i am talking about are....
1. Meals on Wheels. this organization is struggling to find volunteers in order to get basic needs to people in need......due to gas prices.
2. Hospice. this organization assists people who have a terminal diagnosis, usually a cancer patient that has exhausted all other forms of treatment. many of these patients have made a choice to die at home with some dignity, rather than in a hospital. these patients do live within reasonable walking distances. still...the disease has taken over and created a situation where many simply can not leave their bed. do we forget about them?
an over weight person on arthritis medication....easy to say that if they would just loose the weight they would not need the medication. the same arthritis could strike a person whose weight is ideal and cause debilitating pain leading to the person becoming over weight.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
And for those of you not happy with paying $3.00 a gallon, buy your own oil fields, refineries and distribution system and start selling it for cheaper. Why would you ever want the government to step in and do what you are just too lazy and risk averse to do for yourself?
This will not happen as long as there remains a trust. Those who perform the simple tasks you recommend will maximise their profit by joining the oligopoly so they won't have to sell it for cheaper. There is no competition in this industry. The government needs to examine the anti-trust reviews of oil companies. And certain markets with atypical supply demand relations, of which energy markets are included, probably need tighter regulation because of the manipulation on the supply side.
By selling a product that is the lifeblood of the world economy, of course. By selling a product whose price is skyrocketing because of threats to supply and a massive growth in demand in emerging markets like China and India. The price of oil is not just based on supply and it's not just based on demand. It's based on the interaction between those two forces.
When the elasticity of demand is low and the supply is under control of a few players working together, its based on a few players working together. Those few players can also influence demand via the speculative markets that were deregulated in 2000 at Enron's call.
I am going to say something that I suspect will be with most of the "other side". In fact, it is very similar to a Know1 thread.
So what? As Know1 said, if it were just about any other company, it would be applauded.
Gasoline is a product. We have allowed ourselves to become dependant on it. "Gas is different because it is so important." Well the only reason that is is because we have allowed ourselves to develop based on what's convenient--i.e. the automobile. And now gasoline is still in high demand (thanks to our development that completely lacked vision) and it is their right to charge for it. The price is a function of supply and demand (as well as a number of other things going on in the middle east).
If we did not demand it so much, it would be less precious and therefore, cheaper.
But we need leadership on this issue and our leaders are in the oil business. Our government is being bought with this wealth concentration.
i agree....but do not limit my label of "stupidity" to just Americans. My only concern with rising gas prices is the effect it has on many people with a fixed income.
i look forward to the day when another bike rider flips me off for riding my bike too slow in the fast lane.:)
Comments
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
perhaps you missed my personal change that I'm making, which is pursuing the use of Biodiesel...when it comes to riding a bike, I'm unsure were you live, but the in the town I live in, traffic is dangerous enough in a car...but that's ok...it's my choice to drive rather that die...
and the putting the eggs into one basket...yes, it's stupid, I agree...but I think lobby moneys and the Energy Policy Task Force conducted with Cheney may have something to do with that...
and finally, as for acceptance, I wonder why you can't accept the fact that the cost of gas is an issue for some and that some don't accept the manipulation of prices....of which you say doesn't matter...I guess honesty doesn't matter is business...i.e., supply and command or manipulation...either way, it would be nice to know...
enjoy you sunset....while you can...
i was at those protests ... and i don't recall anyone saying that was the motive ... it doesn't take sherlock to figure out middle east instability will drive up the price of oil ... everyone knew that a war in iraq would drive up the price ...
edit: and as far as green energy ... as long as we continue to subsidize oil - it will always be hard for green energy to compete ... its still not even close to being a fair playing field ...
Hehe....but they weren't fixating on "middle east stability" or oil companies then. They were fixating on what they thought was "inevitable": America's takeover of Iraqi oil fields.
This is an excellent point. Subsidies to the oil industry are a complete and total waste. Removing them really isn't going to help green energy in its current form, but it should be done regardless.
By the time this happened, those eggs were already rotten.
well ... how the heck do you think these guys have made their profits?? ...
manufactured war = big profits
They made the profit because they sold a product for a price that people were willing to buy and they did not waste the money they brought in with regard to these sales. Efficiency and low costs are generally a big part of profit as well. I've seen plenty of companies that had bigtime sales numbers, but struggled to make a profit.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
By selling a product that is the lifeblood of the world economy, of course. By selling a product whose price is skyrocketing because of threats to supply and a massive growth in demand in emerging markets like China and India. The price of oil is not just based on supply and it's not just based on demand. It's based on the interaction between those two forces.
exactly ... and those conditions would not have happened without this war ...
we can say it's a fine coincidence for the oil barrons but the legitimacy of this war is beyone debate ... manufactured war ... for this reason amongst others ...
Sure. But that fact does not mean "those conditions" are the reason for the war. Look, just because 9/11 led to the highest ever donations to the Red Cross doesn't mean that Osama Bin Laden was getting Red Cross payola. Just because the adjusted price of crude oil hit its highest peak in 1980 following the Iranian Revolution doesn't mean that BP/Amoco was behind the Iranian Revolution.
The "legitimacy" of this war is not "beyond debatable" -- it's debated here pretty much everyday and numerous sides promote valid viewpoints. Furthermore, all wars are "manufactured" in that they are done for reasons specific to the people who start them. Those reasons are not as simple as oil blood money. Oil blood money probably had very little, if anything, to do with it. Blind fear was the driving motivation of this war.
how much influence does the red cross have over gov't decisions?? ... now, how much influence do ex oil barrons have?? ... this is the big difference ...
i am not saying it was just oil ... there are defence contractors that need to be paid off too ... look at the ties this administration has - and it is just a coincidence that those ties are all benefiting by misguided decisions by these folks?
there is no moral legitimacy for this war ... manufactured for the benefit of those this administration acts on behalf of ...
i look forward to the day when another bike rider flips me off for riding my bike too slow in the fast lane.:)
Yeah I agree Americans are not the only people guzzling the gasoline.....
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
a parrallel could be drawn that people on fixed incomes who can not afford their medications for their health ailments should make themselves as independent from prescriptions as they can.
regardless, specific populations need to use certain resources more than other populations. i am thankful that i am at an age and health currently that allows me to be independent of both.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the focus of the statement is on those who are unable to make a change. the people that i am talking about are....
1. Meals on Wheels. this organization is struggling to find volunteers in order to get basic needs to people in need......due to gas prices.
2. Hospice. this organization assists people who have a terminal diagnosis, usually a cancer patient that has exhausted all other forms of treatment. many of these patients have made a choice to die at home with some dignity, rather than in a hospital. these patients do live within reasonable walking distances. still...the disease has taken over and created a situation where many simply can not leave their bed. do we forget about them?
an over weight person on arthritis medication....easy to say that if they would just loose the weight they would not need the medication. the same arthritis could strike a person whose weight is ideal and cause debilitating pain leading to the person becoming over weight.
This will not happen as long as there remains a trust. Those who perform the simple tasks you recommend will maximise their profit by joining the oligopoly so they won't have to sell it for cheaper. There is no competition in this industry. The government needs to examine the anti-trust reviews of oil companies. And certain markets with atypical supply demand relations, of which energy markets are included, probably need tighter regulation because of the manipulation on the supply side.
When the elasticity of demand is low and the supply is under control of a few players working together, its based on a few players working together. Those few players can also influence demand via the speculative markets that were deregulated in 2000 at Enron's call.
But we need leadership on this issue and our leaders are in the oil business. Our government is being bought with this wealth concentration.
do you still drive your big SUV that you had in Denver just a couple of weeks ago?
http://www.wishlistfoundation.org
Oh my, they dropped the leash.
Morgan Freeman/Clint Eastwood 08' for President!
"Make our day"