i didnt see kucinich or paul change their party affiliation...
You realize that Ron Paul has spoken out specificaly and repeatedly -- you know, because the media and the televised debate questions asked him endlessly, "will you run 3rd party" -- to the fact that 3rd party candidates are deliberately marginalized by the system, and therefore he will not be running 3rd party, because it is ineffectual, right?
So you are criticizing a non-mainstream candidate for recognizing the bias in the system, and trying to use the system to his advantage?
Besides, Ron Paul's positions are, in truth, traditionaly "Republican".
Why should he leave the party that, by tradition, best represents the values he stands for?
Huh?
Huh?
Eagerly awaiting my cute and witty, yet irrelevant and fallacious response.
:cool:
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You have no way of knowing what would have happened in a Clinton or Gore presidency after 9/11.
There would be differences...I agree with that. But they would still be bought and owned by special interests/big business and the will of the people would not be served to the extent it's supposed to. I mean look at all the Obama supporters who have now started bitching about how things were under the Clintons. A claim that has plenty of basis but is now being used to discredit Hillary and not the Democratic party as whole for being as sorry as they were/are and never having the balls to put up candidates that truly represent their party's original ideals. Both parties are pro-business first and foremost...and no one is going to tell me we as a nation can't do better than this bullshit if we just stood up and finally made it clear that we are not going to take it anymore. The best we can manage is to say we don't approve of the job they are doing as reflected in recent polls showing congress' approval rating below 20%. So we don't think they are doing their job but we want to extend their terms and give them a raise. If only all of us had it so easy at work. We should fire them.
But instead we keep lining up to support whichever new flavor of shit they've scooped out this time.
You didn't address any of the differences. And I would say they are huge. They are complete opposites in policy and what they would like to accomplish. We all realize both parties are corporate whores. But any sane person can't say they are fundamentally the same.
You didn't address any of the differences. And I would say they are huge. They are complete opposites in policy and what they would like to accomplish. We all realize both parties are corporate whores. But any sane person can't say they are fundamentally the same.
Because these differences already have us transfixed. We feel we are pulling for a team...the 'good guys' and they don't exist in our gov't hardly. And neither one of these parties are doing their job despite their differences, it's not enough for me to continue to give my support and keep looking the other way at all their crimes and corruption. I believe in doing things the right way and I know it is possible. If you, me, everyone keeps giving support to these corporate whores then they will always be in power and the really good guys who put their necks out there for us, who manage w/o the millions of dollars in corporate money are always going to be marginalized and excluded from doing all the good work they could do for our country. I want to support people I am proud of and look up to, I don't want to keep settling for people who make me cringe, are phoney and tranparent. When enough people join me...we will get it done. I'll keep on fighting the good fight until you guys finally get fed up and join me.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Because these differences already have us transfixed. We feel we are pulling for a team...the 'good guys' and they don't exist in our gov't hardly. And neither one of these parties are doing their job despite their differences, it's not enough for me to continue to give my support and keep looking the other way at all their crimes and corruption. I believe in doing things the right way and I know it is possible. If you, me, everyone keeps giving support to these corporate whores then they will always be in power and the really good guys who put their necks out there for us, who manage w/o the millions of dollars in corporate money are always going to be marginalized and excluded from doing all the good work they could do for our country. I want to support people I am proud of and look up to, I don't want to keep settling for people who make me cringe, are phoney and tranparent. When enough people join me...we will get it done. I'll keep on fighting the good fight until you guys finally get fed up and join me.
I think we will meet in the middle. I believe there will be more and more like Kucinich in the Dem party as time goes on. And I'm really hoping that when Obama becomes president that he will lean to the left. Had Kucinich made it to my primary I would have voted for him. But I'm giong to back Obama and hope he does what he says. We have to start somewhere, we have to start sometime, what better time than now?
Worst case scenario, Obama is the shit's and we get 4 or 8 years of the same. Then there will be a true uproar in this country. And a strong chance for a third party.
Only problem is that with all the right wing conservative nut jobs in the south, is that a split party could never beat the republicans! Sometimes I wish America was split during the civil war.
2 long drawn out war. Bush Sr. fought a war with near unanimous world support that lasted no time at all with clear goals, Clinton kinda dabbled with missile strikes and minor skirmishes (bosnia), but proved to have no political stomach for war (Mogadishu). Bush Jr. has started a war, with no support, no defined goals (unless the goal is continual war), and has proven to be stubborn and refused to change. THIS IS A DIFFERENCE.
3. Clinton ruled by poll numbers, his opinions changing almost daily. Bush ignores poll numbers (and everything else apparently) and runs things guided by stubborn pride.
4. Kyoto accord. or at the very least acknowledging global warming might exist.
5. The support of creationism and abstenance programs in school.
6. balanced budget. surpluses.
7. general goodwill towards the US from a good chunk of the world.
8. patriot act.
i'm sure there are a few million more. I'm also sure the extremist types around here will say those are minor and dont really matter. i disagree. There may not be that much difference between between dems and Republicans, but THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.
i dont know who i'm voting for. Probably throw my vote away on a 3rd party. personally, i'm torn between my hatred of sellout republicans, and my hatred of bullshit socialist programs of democrats. But dont tell me there is no difference. If someone wants to vote democrat, they certainly have my blessing and its a perfectly logical choice.
another huge difference:
women's health and a myriad of other ladyissues---the first day of clinton's term, he lifted the global gag rule. the first day of bush's term he reinstated it. must i mention the so called partial birth abortion ban act of 2003? and look at all the judges bush has installed---on all levels. they matter---especially when it comes to women's health since they like to rule that shit. contraception, medical procedures, they're in it all.
you mentioned abstinence ed above. that has had a HUGE impact nationwide. i mean holy shit. clinton did fund that a little bit. but bush increased that by hundreds of millions. let me just say this: jaime lynn spears.
i am so excited to vote for barack obama.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
women's health and a myriad of other ladyissues---the first day of clinton's term, he lifted the global gag rule. the first day of bush's term he reinstated it. must i mention the so called partial birth abortion ban act of 2003? and look at all the judges bush has installed---on all levels. they matter---especially when it comes to women's health since they like to rule that shit. contraception, medical procedures, they're in it all.
you mentioned abstinence ed above. that has had a HUGE impact nationwide. i mean holy shit. clinton did fund that a little bit. but bush increased that by hundreds of millions. let me just say this: jaime lynn spears.
i am so excited to vote for barack obama.
and both parties are not concerned with bringing us a Universal Single Payer Helathcare System, you know...like every other industrialized nation in the world.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
and both parties are not concerned with bringing us a Universal Single Payer Helathcare System, you know...like every other industrialized nation in the world.
i haven't heard obama say he would never want a single payer system. for many reasons i think it's impossible to move directly to one and i think he has a good step and a workable plan. it's very important to me that something can be accomplished. i think what he suggests can be accomplished and it is one of the reasons i'm voting for him. completely rehauling the health care system is no small undertaking.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
i haven't heard obama say he would never want a single payer system. for many reasons i think it's impossible to move directly to one and i think he has a good step and a workable plan. it's very important to me that something can be accomplished. i think what he suggests can be accomplished and it is one of the reasons i'm voting for him. completely rehauling the health care system is no small undertaking.
I see no reason why we couldn't implement a single payer system in the US now, just as nations like Canada, France and the UK did long ago.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I see no reason why we couldn't implement a single payer system in the US now, just as nations like Canada, France and the UK did long ago.
i guess that's one area in which we differ.
because the insurance and pharm industries are so deep and wide, i don't think that can be accomplished immediately. the us is different now than canada france and the uk were.
if you wanna be a friend of mine
cross the river to the eastside
because the insurance and pharm industries are so deep and wide, i don't think that can be accomplished immediately. the us is different now than canada france and the uk were.
I see this issue as doable and urgent. When it's people's lives we could be saving, I feel we shouldn't keep dragging our feet and become to complacent.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Do those here that are so anti Obama hope that he will do a good job when he becomes president?
Do you hope he stabilizes relations around the world?
Do you hope he gets us out of Iraq?
I really don't think health care will improve and that's a shame. But i sincerely hope he does the things that the majority want done.
It just seems that some here are so anti Obama. And you really don't want to see him accomplish these out of spite. Everyone talks of the Obamaniacs, but it's mostly the haters that start the threads all the time. It's all very puzzling.
haters??? obamaniacs are just as free as anyone to start threads to discuss whatever they wish...however, i've found most of them dislike having to answer any type of questions....it's not our fault there's a lot of stuff to post about obama and all anyone can find about nader is someone he fired wanted to start a union and nader said no (does any employer allow an employee they fired to start a union??) or what stocks make up a mutual fund he invests in (does anyone here know precisely what stocks are in their 401k's mutual funds??)
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
haters??? obamaniacs are just as free as anyone to start threads to discuss whatever they wish...however, i've found most of them dislike having to answer any type of questions....it's not our fault there's a lot of stuff to post about obama and all anyone can find about nader is someone he fired wanted to start a union and nader said no (does any employer allow an employee they fired to start a union??) or what stocks make up a mutual fund he invests in (does anyone here know precisely what stocks are in their 401k's mutual funds??)
Can i just take a moment to remind you, that just because someone is supporting obama, that does not make them a maniac.
How many times do you hear this comment? 'Imagine what Nader's poll numbers would be, if his candidacy weren't so ignored by national media.'
You would be hard pressed to find anything negative on nader because he's hardly ever mentioned in the media.
Can i just take a moment to remind you, that just because someone is supporting obama, that does not make them a maniac.
How many times do you hear this comment? 'Imagine what Nader's poll numbers would be, if his candidacy weren't so ignored by national media.'
You would be hard pressed to find anything negative on nader because he's hardly ever mentioned in the media.
Oh there's the neverneding complaints from dems calling nader a spoiler and the fact they work to keep him off the ballot and out of the debates....they would love some dirt on Nader. You don't hear a lot of dirt on Nader because there isn't much to be heard.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Oh there's the neverneding complaints from dems calling nader a spoiler and the fact they work to keep him off the ballot and out of the debates....they would love some dirt on Nader. You don't hear a lot of dirt on Nader because there isn't much to be heard.
.
So the media doesn't shun him and largely ignore reporting anything about him then. Good or bad?
.
So the media doesn't shun him and largely ignore reporting anything about him then. Good or bad?
The media does ignore him on the issues. Everytime he gets a mainstream interview the 1st question is always about being a 'spoiler' and they always bring it up whenever he is mentioned. They never bring up all the good he has done for this country and treat him like crap. it really is disgusting. If the Dems could find some dirt on him they would and they'd have it all over the news. They went to the trouble of threatening to have him arrested outside the national debates in 2000 and he had an invitation from the college! GM tried their best to dig up dirt on Nader when he was going up against them. When they couldn't find anything, they went to the extent of trying to bait him with women in public places! It's all on record. It makes me sick.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
If the Dems could find some dirt on him they would and they'd have it all over the news.
Only the dems? Why not the Republicans too?
...Ralph Nader announced he is running for president again. His announcement has filled millions of people with excitement and hope. And these people are called Republicans...
I've actually watched an unreasonable man abook. Some parts are quite moving. Irrespective of where preferences lay, it really touched me. I cannot believe that has been on youtube for nearly two months and only 400 odd views.
...Ralph Nader announced he is running for president again. His announcement has filled millions of people with excitement and hope. And these people are called Republicans...
Of course, that's just my opinion.
I guess the same could be said for Ron Paul and Democrats. There are many Ron Paul supporters who won't be voting McCain out of principle as well.
And why should the republicans be so excited if Nader is so 'irrelevant' and only gets 400 odd views on youtube?
It seems like you guys want it both ways. You say how Nader isn't a factor and then turn around and claim he can cost the Dems the election.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I guess the same could be said for Ron Paul and Democrats. There are many Ron Paul supporters who won't be voting McCain out of principle as well.
And why should the republicans be so excited if Nader is so 'irrelevant' and only gets 400 odd views on youtube?
It seems like you guys want it both ways. You say how Nader isn't a factor and then turn around and claim he can cost the Dems the election.
No abook, i don't think he cost the Dems the election and I believe he has every right to run. I said his announcement to run has made the republicans happy, which was in response to your mention of the Dems being the only ones who would be happy to dig up dirt on Nader.
My comment about the unreasonable man clip was sincere. I am quite shocked that it has not received more exposure. They need more people with your passion on their campaign team to get the word out there abook.
No abook, i don't think he cost the Dems the election and I believe he has every right to run. I said his announcement to run has made the republicans happy, which was in response to your mention of the Dems being the only ones who would be happy to dig up dirt on Nader.
My comment about the unreasonable man clip was sincere. I am quite shocked that it has not received more exposure. They need more people with your passion on their campaign team to get the word out there abook.
Well thank you. I am trying and hopefully will be doing lots of volunteer work in NC and other surrounding states.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Comments
You realize that Ron Paul has spoken out specificaly and repeatedly -- you know, because the media and the televised debate questions asked him endlessly, "will you run 3rd party" -- to the fact that 3rd party candidates are deliberately marginalized by the system, and therefore he will not be running 3rd party, because it is ineffectual, right?
So you are criticizing a non-mainstream candidate for recognizing the bias in the system, and trying to use the system to his advantage?
Besides, Ron Paul's positions are, in truth, traditionaly "Republican".
Why should he leave the party that, by tradition, best represents the values he stands for?
Huh?
Huh?
Eagerly awaiting my cute and witty, yet irrelevant and fallacious response.
:cool:
If I opened it now would you not understand?
You didn't address any of the differences. And I would say they are huge. They are complete opposites in policy and what they would like to accomplish. We all realize both parties are corporate whores. But any sane person can't say they are fundamentally the same.
Because these differences already have us transfixed. We feel we are pulling for a team...the 'good guys' and they don't exist in our gov't hardly. And neither one of these parties are doing their job despite their differences, it's not enough for me to continue to give my support and keep looking the other way at all their crimes and corruption. I believe in doing things the right way and I know it is possible. If you, me, everyone keeps giving support to these corporate whores then they will always be in power and the really good guys who put their necks out there for us, who manage w/o the millions of dollars in corporate money are always going to be marginalized and excluded from doing all the good work they could do for our country. I want to support people I am proud of and look up to, I don't want to keep settling for people who make me cringe, are phoney and tranparent. When enough people join me...we will get it done. I'll keep on fighting the good fight until you guys finally get fed up and join me.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
I think we will meet in the middle. I believe there will be more and more like Kucinich in the Dem party as time goes on. And I'm really hoping that when Obama becomes president that he will lean to the left. Had Kucinich made it to my primary I would have voted for him. But I'm giong to back Obama and hope he does what he says. We have to start somewhere, we have to start sometime, what better time than now?
Worst case scenario, Obama is the shit's and we get 4 or 8 years of the same. Then there will be a true uproar in this country. And a strong chance for a third party.
Only problem is that with all the right wing conservative nut jobs in the south, is that a split party could never beat the republicans! Sometimes I wish America was split during the civil war.
another huge difference:
women's health and a myriad of other ladyissues---the first day of clinton's term, he lifted the global gag rule. the first day of bush's term he reinstated it. must i mention the so called partial birth abortion ban act of 2003? and look at all the judges bush has installed---on all levels. they matter---especially when it comes to women's health since they like to rule that shit. contraception, medical procedures, they're in it all.
you mentioned abstinence ed above. that has had a HUGE impact nationwide. i mean holy shit. clinton did fund that a little bit. but bush increased that by hundreds of millions. let me just say this: jaime lynn spears.
i am so excited to vote for barack obama.
cross the river to the eastside
and both parties are not concerned with bringing us a Universal Single Payer Helathcare System, you know...like every other industrialized nation in the world.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i haven't heard obama say he would never want a single payer system. for many reasons i think it's impossible to move directly to one and i think he has a good step and a workable plan. it's very important to me that something can be accomplished. i think what he suggests can be accomplished and it is one of the reasons i'm voting for him. completely rehauling the health care system is no small undertaking.
cross the river to the eastside
I see no reason why we couldn't implement a single payer system in the US now, just as nations like Canada, France and the UK did long ago.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
i guess that's one area in which we differ.
because the insurance and pharm industries are so deep and wide, i don't think that can be accomplished immediately. the us is different now than canada france and the uk were.
cross the river to the eastside
I see this issue as doable and urgent. When it's people's lives we could be saving, I feel we shouldn't keep dragging our feet and become to complacent.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
haters??? obamaniacs are just as free as anyone to start threads to discuss whatever they wish...however, i've found most of them dislike having to answer any type of questions....it's not our fault there's a lot of stuff to post about obama and all anyone can find about nader is someone he fired wanted to start a union and nader said no (does any employer allow an employee they fired to start a union??) or what stocks make up a mutual fund he invests in (does anyone here know precisely what stocks are in their 401k's mutual funds??)
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
How many times do you hear this comment? 'Imagine what Nader's poll numbers would be, if his candidacy weren't so ignored by national media.'
You would be hard pressed to find anything negative on nader because he's hardly ever mentioned in the media.
Oh there's the neverneding complaints from dems calling nader a spoiler and the fact they work to keep him off the ballot and out of the debates....they would love some dirt on Nader. You don't hear a lot of dirt on Nader because there isn't much to be heard.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
So the media doesn't shun him and largely ignore reporting anything about him then. Good or bad?
The media does ignore him on the issues. Everytime he gets a mainstream interview the 1st question is always about being a 'spoiler' and they always bring it up whenever he is mentioned. They never bring up all the good he has done for this country and treat him like crap. it really is disgusting. If the Dems could find some dirt on him they would and they'd have it all over the news. They went to the trouble of threatening to have him arrested outside the national debates in 2000 and he had an invitation from the college! GM tried their best to dig up dirt on Nader when he was going up against them. When they couldn't find anything, they went to the extent of trying to bait him with women in public places! It's all on record. It makes me sick.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
...Ralph Nader announced he is running for president again. His announcement has filled millions of people with excitement and hope. And these people are called Republicans...
Of course, that's just my opinion.
I guess the same could be said for Ron Paul and Democrats. There are many Ron Paul supporters who won't be voting McCain out of principle as well.
And why should the republicans be so excited if Nader is so 'irrelevant' and only gets 400 odd views on youtube?
It seems like you guys want it both ways. You say how Nader isn't a factor and then turn around and claim he can cost the Dems the election.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
My comment about the unreasonable man clip was sincere. I am quite shocked that it has not received more exposure. They need more people with your passion on their campaign team to get the word out there abook.
Well thank you. I am trying and hopefully will be doing lots of volunteer work in NC and other surrounding states.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde