In order to have a happy and balanced society I believe it starts with providing universal health care and giving everyone a feeling that they will be properly taken care of and looked after by their country no matter what happens.
Only until this societal reality is established can real growth begin imo.
This "me first....fuck the other guy" mentality is ass backwards Chachi.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
No, the premiums would NOT have to stay the same, because we would no longer be paying insurance company advertising costs, profits to stockholders, etc. Instead of dozens of CEOs making millions per year, there would be one. Each hospital wouldn't have to employ an entire office building full of people to decipher the different paperwork and requirements of each insurer because it would be the same across the board. These things and more would reduce the cost of providing a nerve conduction test.
I can't really see that happening. When has anything that was supposed to translate to a reduction in cost ever actually meant a reduction in cost for the average person?
Shareholders, ceo's, all the advertising people, will still all want their money. I can't see any of them taking a pay cut or finding less money to fund the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed being a suitable outcome for them.
Nope, as far as I can see, it'll cost the same, probably more.
You only have to look at the government initiative here in Australia to get everyone onto private health insurance. The government offered a rebate, said that more people paying for private health would eventually lower the premiums and with the influx of people moving off the public system things would be better for everyone. But that's not what happened. Private premiums are going up and less things are covered under the premiums. The public system is still completely groaning from lack of government funding and too many people that need it. And the fat cats keep getting richer.
Yup, too much money to be made for some folk in health. There's no way it's ever going to cost less.
Am I just oversimplifying comprehensive health care with the steps below, or am I missing something?
1. A government department takes the place of for profit insurance companies.
2. Everyone above X income level pays a monthly premium. Like we currently do, the employer and worker usually split this cost however the company decides. In theory, the monthly premium would be around what we currently pay.
3. When you go to a doctor, you present your insurance card like you currently do. Doctors get reimbursed at a predetermined set rate for each visit/procedure.
4. Patients pay a small copay like we currently do
5. Things like cosmetic surgery or elective procedures typically aren't covered, or covered at a percentage rate depending on the procedure.
It would basically work the same as it does now, but the profits that an insurance company currently make, get's put back in the system to help cover those who can't afford healthcare.
I don't work in the industry so maybe this is too simple and I am missing something that could put us back in the same mess now, but it just seems simple to me... Any thoughts?
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
giving everyone a feeling that they will be properly taken care of and looked after by their country no matter what happens.
I'm sure the government agrees with you - as long as we can give them that "feeling" that's all that matters. Of course, we tried that with the miserable failure of a program called Social Security. It hasn't worked in the past.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
No, the premiums would NOT have to stay the same, because we would no longer be paying insurance company advertising costs, profits to stockholders, etc. Instead of dozens of CEOs making millions per year, there would be one. Each hospital wouldn't have to employ an entire office building full of people to decipher the different paperwork and requirements of each insurer because it would be the same across the board. These things and more would reduce the cost of providing a nerve conduction test.
the "profits" the insurance companies now enjoy would quickly be eaten up by the extra 280 million people that would be brought into the program. when my sister had cancer her treatments and surgeries exceeded 1/2 million. add the scripts and co-pays plus the doctors visits and we're close to $1 million for each cancer patient. if 25% of the population has cancer; that could be $70 million put out for 25% of the population.
part of the cost of a nerve conduction test is the cost of the equipment. next is a trained tech to perform the procedure. we all know the government likes paperwork and will do everything possible to make sure the test is needed; (as medicare does now) and make sure the person taking the test is elligible and in fact that person. getting authorization from medicare is harder to do than any insurance company. my best friend is an office manager for a doctor and i hear about it a couple times a week.
i also know someone that received medicaid for her children. going to the "clinic" was a sickening experience for her. they never saw the same doctor twice and each visit gave only minutes with the doctor.
medicaid is the model by which socialized medicine will be formed. take a look at that.
Am I just oversimplifying comprehensive health care with the steps below, or am I missing something?
1. A government department takes the place of for profit insurance companies.
2. Everyone above X income level pays a monthly premium. Like we currently do, the employer and worker usually split this cost however the company decides. In theory, the monthly premium would be around what we currently pay.
3. When you go to a doctor, you present your insurance card like you currently do. Doctors get reimbursed at a predetermined set rate for each visit/procedure.
4. Patients pay a small copay like we currently do
5. Things like cosmetic surgery or elective procedures typically aren't covered, or covered at a percentage rate depending on the procedure.
It would basically work the same as it does now, but the profits that an insurance company currently make, get's put back in the system to help cover those who can't afford healthcare.
I don't work in the industry so maybe this is too simple and I am missing something that could put us back in the same mess now, but it just seems simple to me... Any thoughts?
once again; taxpayers are paying for those that don't pay taxes. you're also putting a CAP on a doctors earnings. this is not communism. in america; a person is allowed to make and KEEP what they earn. my pain management doctor became a good friend when i started selling him horses and other animals. he plans to work his tail off for 10 years and then retire. he sees 40 patients a day and he'll be able to do it. this is what america is. put a cap on doctors earnings and you'll see medical schools empty.
medicaid is the model by which socialized medicine will be formed. take a look at that.
Why? Why do you assume that? Again I ask you, why the negativity towards America? Why do you think we are incapable of looking at the 160+ other countries in the world that provide care for all their citizens, looking at what works best and what doesn't work so well, and coming up with a brand new system?
None of the candidates who have thus far proposed a health care plan is saying "Let's expand Medicaid to cover everyone," so I don't know where you get the idea that anyone is planning to do that. I would most definitely not be in favor of that. I believe we are capable of much more.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
the "profits" the insurance companies now enjoy would quickly be eaten up by the extra 280 million people that would be brought into the program. when my sister had cancer her treatments and surgeries exceeded 1/2 million. add the scripts and co-pays plus the doctors visits and we're close to $1 million for each cancer patient. if 25% of the population has cancer; that could be $70 million put out for 25% of the population.
You're paying for them NOW, just more inefficiently than you might be under another system!
Cancer patients do not go untreated in this country. Yes, those who are poor are made to jump through hoops to get care, but they do get it, and you pay for it. Those who are privately insured get care more easily, and everyone who is insured by the same company helps to pay for it. It's wasteful to have dozens of public and private organizations providing duplicate services, each with it's own set of rules and paperwork that must be navigated. It requires many thousands of employees, and rest assured that at some level you are paying for all of them. It could and should be handled more efficiently, resulting in reduced costs.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I'm sure the government agrees with you - as long as we can give them that "feeling" that's all that matters. Of course, we tried that with the miserable failure of a program called Social Security. It hasn't worked in the past.
What I've found is that pretty much every country that can make it work, likes it, and cant imagine changing it for any reason.
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
In Canada we know there is a desperate need for more private practice and delivery of health care. We just have to make sure that the private care is still paid for by the government at the prescribed rate. Hopefully the system will allow for doctors to charge a premium to be paid by the patient for premium service.
“One good thing about music,
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
You're paying for them NOW, just more inefficiently than you might be under another system!
Cancer patients do not go untreated in this country. Yes, those who are poor are made to jump through hoops to get care, but they do get it, and you pay for it. Those who are privately insured get care more easily, and everyone who is insured by the same company helps to pay for it. It's wasteful to have dozens of public and private organizations providing duplicate services, each with it's own set of rules and paperwork that must be navigated. It requires many thousands of employees, and rest assured that at some level you are paying for all of them. It could and should be handled more efficiently, resulting in reduced costs.
the american cancer society paid my sisters bills. they work off donations and grants.
edit: how many people or organizations donate money to the government?
Why? Why do you assume that? Again I ask you, why the negativity towards America? Why do you think we are incapable of looking at the 160+ other countries in the world that provide care for all their citizens, looking at what works best and what doesn't work so well, and coming up with a brand new system?
None of the candidates who have thus far proposed a health care plan is saying "Let's expand Medicaid to cover everyone," so I don't know where you get the idea that anyone is planning to do that. I would most definitely not be in favor of that. I believe we are capable of much more.
because the 160+ other countries don't have the freedoms americans have. castro can take 90% of what a person has and thus he has the money to provide healthcare services. other countries have much higher tax structures. no matter how you look at it; the public has to pay. since everyone is not covered now; adding more people means we have to pay more to include them. medicaid is the best system we've come up with to date. if a better idea came along; we'd use it. you can't cap earnings in america. if you tell me i can't sell my product for what i want; i won't produce the product or i'll sell it overseas. i can also ship it overseas and package it there making it an import. and not subject to price regulations. i don't care who promises you universal healthcare; it won't happen in america.
because the 160+ other countries don't have the freedoms americans have. castro can take 90% of what a person has and thus he has the money to provide healthcare services. other countries have much higher tax structures. no matter how you look at it; the public has to pay. since everyone is not covered now; adding more people means we have to pay more to include them. medicaid is the best system we've come up with to date. if a better idea came along; we'd use it. you can't cap earnings in america. if you tell me i can't sell my product for what i want; i won't produce the product or i'll sell it overseas. i can also ship it overseas and package it there making it an import. and not subject to price regulations. i don't care who promises you universal healthcare; it won't happen in america.
I'm not talking about Cuba, I'm talking about Canada, Australia, Europe, where they DO have the freedoms we have. Yes, their taxes are higher, but they don't pay medical insurance premiums. If my taxes were raised $5,000 per year to cover a universal insurance plan, I'd still be saving money becuase private health insurance costs more than that .... and we could do it without increasing taxes by that much, so my savings would be even bigger.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
I'm not talking about Cuba, I'm talking about Canada, Australia, Europe, where they DO have the freedoms we have. Yes, their taxes are higher, but they don't pay medical insurance premiums. If my taxes were raised $5,000 per year to cover a universal insurance plan, I'd still be saving money becuase private health insurance costs more than that .... and we could do it without increasing taxes by that much, so my savings would be even bigger.
i hope you're right. my meds are $2623.00/month without insurance. they have been since my surgery 25 years ago. prior to 2 years ago they were higher but we dropped one Rx. they've been working on universal healthcare since the 70's from what i remember. all the great minds have come up with so far is medicaid; but i do hope you're right.
on another note; i keep my money offshore because every other country's taxes are much higher than the us. that's what my lawyer says anyway.
i hope you're right. my meds are $2623.00/month without insurance. they have been since my surgery 25 years ago. prior to 2 years ago they were higher but we dropped one Rx. they've been working on universal healthcare since the 70's from what i remember. all the great minds have come up with so far is medicaid; but i do hope you're right.
on another note; i keep my money offshore because every other country's taxes are much higher than the us. that's what my lawyer says anyway.
The great minds have come up with much better ideas than Medicaid, but there aren't a lot of great minds passing legislation in D.C. ... the politicians have thus far always fucked it up, so Medicaid is what we wound up with for the poor. Medicare is actually very cost-efficient and doesn't have many of the problems that Medicaid has, in part because we in this country don't have the same desire to punish the elderly the way we seem to enjoy punishing the poor. It's certainly not a perfect system, but it is proof that we can do better than Medicaid, because we do it every day. I believe that we can also do better than Medicare. We don't lack the resources, what we've lacked has been the political will. The people need to DEMAND this of their representatives ... the only way the political will for an efficient and equitable system will ever exist is if we demand it and make it clear that our representatives in government will be seeking other employment if they don't provide it. And you're right, Medicaid for all would be a travesty, our reps need to know that is not what we're demanding.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
Comments
Only until this societal reality is established can real growth begin imo.
This "me first....fuck the other guy" mentality is ass backwards Chachi.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
I can't really see that happening. When has anything that was supposed to translate to a reduction in cost ever actually meant a reduction in cost for the average person?
Shareholders, ceo's, all the advertising people, will still all want their money. I can't see any of them taking a pay cut or finding less money to fund the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed being a suitable outcome for them.
Nope, as far as I can see, it'll cost the same, probably more.
You only have to look at the government initiative here in Australia to get everyone onto private health insurance. The government offered a rebate, said that more people paying for private health would eventually lower the premiums and with the influx of people moving off the public system things would be better for everyone. But that's not what happened. Private premiums are going up and less things are covered under the premiums. The public system is still completely groaning from lack of government funding and too many people that need it. And the fat cats keep getting richer.
Yup, too much money to be made for some folk in health. There's no way it's ever going to cost less.
*~You're IT Bert!~*
Hold on to the thread
The currents will shift
1. A government department takes the place of for profit insurance companies.
2. Everyone above X income level pays a monthly premium. Like we currently do, the employer and worker usually split this cost however the company decides. In theory, the monthly premium would be around what we currently pay.
3. When you go to a doctor, you present your insurance card like you currently do. Doctors get reimbursed at a predetermined set rate for each visit/procedure.
4. Patients pay a small copay like we currently do
5. Things like cosmetic surgery or elective procedures typically aren't covered, or covered at a percentage rate depending on the procedure.
It would basically work the same as it does now, but the profits that an insurance company currently make, get's put back in the system to help cover those who can't afford healthcare.
I don't work in the industry so maybe this is too simple and I am missing something that could put us back in the same mess now, but it just seems simple to me... Any thoughts?
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
I'm sure the government agrees with you - as long as we can give them that "feeling" that's all that matters. Of course, we tried that with the miserable failure of a program called Social Security. It hasn't worked in the past.
the "profits" the insurance companies now enjoy would quickly be eaten up by the extra 280 million people that would be brought into the program. when my sister had cancer her treatments and surgeries exceeded 1/2 million. add the scripts and co-pays plus the doctors visits and we're close to $1 million for each cancer patient. if 25% of the population has cancer; that could be $70 million put out for 25% of the population.
part of the cost of a nerve conduction test is the cost of the equipment. next is a trained tech to perform the procedure. we all know the government likes paperwork and will do everything possible to make sure the test is needed; (as medicare does now) and make sure the person taking the test is elligible and in fact that person. getting authorization from medicare is harder to do than any insurance company. my best friend is an office manager for a doctor and i hear about it a couple times a week.
i also know someone that received medicaid for her children. going to the "clinic" was a sickening experience for her. they never saw the same doctor twice and each visit gave only minutes with the doctor.
medicaid is the model by which socialized medicine will be formed. take a look at that.
once again; taxpayers are paying for those that don't pay taxes. you're also putting a CAP on a doctors earnings. this is not communism. in america; a person is allowed to make and KEEP what they earn. my pain management doctor became a good friend when i started selling him horses and other animals. he plans to work his tail off for 10 years and then retire. he sees 40 patients a day and he'll be able to do it. this is what america is. put a cap on doctors earnings and you'll see medical schools empty.
None of the candidates who have thus far proposed a health care plan is saying "Let's expand Medicaid to cover everyone," so I don't know where you get the idea that anyone is planning to do that. I would most definitely not be in favor of that. I believe we are capable of much more.
Cancer patients do not go untreated in this country. Yes, those who are poor are made to jump through hoops to get care, but they do get it, and you pay for it. Those who are privately insured get care more easily, and everyone who is insured by the same company helps to pay for it. It's wasteful to have dozens of public and private organizations providing duplicate services, each with it's own set of rules and paperwork that must be navigated. It requires many thousands of employees, and rest assured that at some level you are paying for all of them. It could and should be handled more efficiently, resulting in reduced costs.
What I've found is that pretty much every country that can make it work, likes it, and cant imagine changing it for any reason.
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
(\__/)
( o.O)
(")_(")
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
the american cancer society paid my sisters bills. they work off donations and grants.
edit: how many people or organizations donate money to the government?
because the 160+ other countries don't have the freedoms americans have. castro can take 90% of what a person has and thus he has the money to provide healthcare services. other countries have much higher tax structures. no matter how you look at it; the public has to pay. since everyone is not covered now; adding more people means we have to pay more to include them. medicaid is the best system we've come up with to date. if a better idea came along; we'd use it. you can't cap earnings in america. if you tell me i can't sell my product for what i want; i won't produce the product or i'll sell it overseas. i can also ship it overseas and package it there making it an import. and not subject to price regulations. i don't care who promises you universal healthcare; it won't happen in america.
i hope you're right. my meds are $2623.00/month without insurance. they have been since my surgery 25 years ago. prior to 2 years ago they were higher but we dropped one Rx. they've been working on universal healthcare since the 70's from what i remember. all the great minds have come up with so far is medicaid; but i do hope you're right.
on another note; i keep my money offshore because every other country's taxes are much higher than the us. that's what my lawyer says anyway.