Cho Seung-Hui's play "Richard McBeef"

Tom K

If you are interested, here's a short play.. Sorry if this is in bad taste but I found it interesting. I'm not sure how credible the smoking gun is, so I'm not sure if this is legit.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0417071vtech1.html

OneLove

I wouldn't know how credible this is either, but I wanted to add something to this thread anyway.

The shooter lived just a few miles from me, and atleast 5 of the victoms went to high school here in NoVa with him. There is a who slew of reporters outside of the family of the shooters home right now. And, to make things worse, I was just watching the evening news (local) where they literally spelled out his families HOME address.

There is alot to be said about what happened yesterday, and I totally understand the curiosity & distain that people feel for the shooter. Having a lot of my best friends as VaTech alumni, and having been there countless times myself, I can understand the shock everyone has gone through.

I guess I just don't want anyone to loose sight of the fact that the shooter has a grieving mother tonite as well, people who loved him. Read what you want, discuss freely, but don't make it a spectacle of hollywood proportions. There are so many real lives affected, thats all.

Tom K

OneLove wrote:

I guess I just don't want anyone to loose sight of the fact that the shooter has a grieving mother tonite as well, people who loved him. Read what you want, discuss freely, but don't make it a spectacle of hollywood proportions. There are so many real lives affected, thats all.

Thanks for adding to the thread OneLove. You def. make some great points. It's very hard not to be curious about someone who would commit such a great atrocity, and I think it helps in the healing process when people discuss issues such as this one. Being a friend of VT alum. or just being a college student like I am, a massacre like this effects many, if not all, people.

somebodyelsessky2020

no doubt this is a pretty disturbing play. how did this get out? the news anchors were trying to get info on these plays all day and haven't been able to.

mammasan

i dont mean to sound disrespectfull of the dead, but those plays sucked. If these plays are indeed his, this kid was some sick twisted individual. Pedophilia, ass-raping, etc... just plain sick.

Brain of J.Lo

As a writer and an artist, it bothers the hell out of me that they are making his work public right now. While this guy was obviously terribly disturbed, I don't really think it's appropriate (or necessary) to use examples of his creative writing to illustrate "how messed up" he was, etc...

Brain of J.Lo

OneLove wrote:

I guess I just don't want anyone to loose sight of the fact that the shooter has a grieving mother tonite as well, people who loved him.

amen to that. it is tragic all around...even for the person who is responsible.

mammasan

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

As a writer and an artist, it bothers the hell out of me that they are making his work public right now. While this guy was obviously terribly disturbed, I don't really think it's appropriate (or necessary) to use examples of his creative writing to illustrate "how messed up" he was, etc...

I disagree. I think this shows that there was a pattern of irrationale behavior, including his writing. If you notice most fo these school shooters have a similiar pattern and build up till they completely snap. Make this unformation available to the pyblic may help prevent future incidents.

Brain of J.Lo

mammasan wrote:

I disagree. I think this shows that there was a pattern of irrationale behavior, including his writing. If you notice most fo these school shooters have a similiar pattern and build up till they completely snap. Make this unformation available to the pyblic may help prevent future incidents.

It's quite possible and very probable that this play indicates something bigger going on in his world. But I can tell you from experience that disturbing writing and/or artwork is omnipresent in a college setting, and I feel comfortable saying that not every creator of disturbing work is expressing their own psychosis. A lot of amateur writers or artists go for shock value over substance, because it's easy. Anyone who has taken a workshop knows this.

More importantly, I just don't think it's appropriate for the public to view this piece of writing is proof of some underlying mental health issue. I don't think it's helpful for anyone when the public is playing armchair psychologist.

Overall, I just think it sets a bad precedent to point to a person's art as an example of poor mental health.

mammasan

Brain of J.Lo wrote:

It's quite possible and very probable that this play indicates something bigger going on in his world. But I can tell you from experience that disturbing writing and/or artwork is omnipresent in a college setting, and I feel comfortable saying that not every creator of disturbing work is expressing their own psychosis. A lot of amateur writers or artists go for shock value over substance, because it's easy. Anyone who has taken a workshop knows this.

More importantly, I just don't think it's appropriate for the public to view this piece of writing is proof of some underlying mental health issue. I don't think it's helpful for anyone when the public is playing armchair psychologist.

Overall, I just think it sets a bad precedent to point to a person's art as an example of poor mental health.

I agree that a person's writing alone should not be a factor in determining a person's mental health. I myself have written some dark short stories and I am not about to go on a shooting spree. When you add the writings to other reported incidents, like stalking and setting his dorm room on fire, you see a clear pattern developing. It's my opinion that knowing the warning signs, and if you think about it most of these school shooters exhibited very similiar warning signs, is our best defense against these type of attacks.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

what combination of chemical imbalance in the brain leads to this I'll never know...

sweet adeline

that play really did suck. he probably got a B- on it though.

OneLove

mammasan wrote:

I agree that a person's writing alone should not be a factor in determining a person's mental health. I myself have written some dark short stories and I am not about to go on a shooting spree. When you add the writings to other reported incidents, like stalking and setting his dorm room on fire, you see a clear pattern developing. It's my opinion that knowing the warning signs, and if you think about it most of these school shooters exhibited very similiar warning signs, is our best defense against these type of attacks.

Maybe thats the lesson here. There was a pattern it would seem where this boy was crying out for help. For whatever reasons, that may be the first of the tragedies that occured yesterday.

You won't ever see anything positive said about this guy, and perhaps thats the way it should be. Wether this short story was written by the shooter or not, the mental anguish this guy obvsiously felt was repeated countless times over as a result.

soulsinging

that kid can't write for shit. how the fuck did he even get into a college? he writes like a 7th grader who thinks poop jokes are still comedy gold.

soulsinging

OneLove wrote:

Maybe thats the lesson here. There was a pattern it would seem where this boy was crying out for help. For whatever reasons, that may be the first of the tragedies that occured yesterday.

You won't ever see anything positive said about this guy, and perhaps thats the way it should be. Wether this short story was written by the shooter or not, the mental anguish this guy obvsiously felt was repeated countless times over as a result.

i dont think he was crying out for help. he was disturbed and needed serious medical treatment. they tried to help him, but they were rebuffed. though i have no idea why he was still there after the fires and stalking. i have a friend who was told not to return to her school for months after a suicide attempt so that she could get counseling.

somebodyelsessky2020

yeah the writing is pretty primitive for a 23 y.o. it sounds like a 1st grader wrote it. i take it the stepfather was fat and he might have been molested by someone at some point in his life.

PaperPlates

Art is a reflection of life, and twisted art is therefore a reflection of a twisted life. As usual, many signs pointed to this person being an unstable person, but political correctness prevented preventing this. Sad, really.

Byrnzie

OneLove wrote:

I wouldn't know how credible this is either, but I wanted to add something to this thread anyway.

The shooter lived just a few miles from me, and atleast 5 of the victoms went to high school here in NoVa with him. There is a who slew of reporters outside of the family of the shooters home right now. And, to make things worse, I was just watching the evening news (local) where they literally spelled out his families HOME address.

There is alot to be said about what happened yesterday, and I totally understand the curiosity & distain that people feel for the shooter. Having a lot of my best friends as VaTech alumni, and having been there countless times myself, I can understand the shock everyone has gone through.

I guess I just don't want anyone to loose sight of the fact that the shooter has a grieving mother tonite as well, people who loved him. Read what you want, discuss freely, but don't make it a spectacle of hollywood proportions. There are so many real lives affected, thats all.

I watched the interview with his room-mates on CNN earlier and it looks like he really had some heavy problems, bordering on psychosis. His room-mates seemed to be pretty sound, and spoke of how they tried to be accommodating to him, despite his obvious social problems and blatant strangeness. Seem like he was a a bomb just waiting to go off. Seems like everyone was a bit wary of him after his stalking of girls and taking pictures of everyone e.t.c. Shame something wasn't done to reign him in/help him earlier. Sounds like, despite the fact that he lived on campus, he had no friends and hardly ever left his room except to attend lectures, which is a bit odd. I mean, how do you manage that when surrounded by 2000 other students? Sounds like he wasn't given much encouragement or opportunity to fit in.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

After reading the entire "play", all I can think of is that this kid almost certainly suffered some form of sexual abuse as a child.

The parents and family history should be investigated.

sponger

Just watched the ABC News story on Yahoo. "Richard McBeef" is an actual writing of his.

catefrances

sorry, but that writing did nothing for me. and i'm talking style over content.

mammasan

PaperPlates wrote:

Art is a reflection of life, and twisted art is therefore a reflection of a twisted life. As usual, many signs pointed to this person being an unstable person, but political correctness prevented preventing this. Sad, really.

No political correctness is not to blame here. This has nothing to do with the university being too PC. The university, in my opinion, just failed to act. The kid was stalking another student and he set fire to his dorm room. Those two incidents are grounds for suspencion if not expulsion from the school. Yet they did next to nothing. You would think that after the whole Seton Hall University dorm fires from a few years back they would have done more to this kid than just send him for some counceling.

bryn_cmbs

you can read another one his plays here:

http://news.aol.com/virginia-tech-shootings/cho-seung-hui/_a/mr-brownstone-title-page/20070417141309990001

Tom K

The more I read about this student, the more I feel that the university dropped the proverbial ball. He was clearly distrurbed. This student was admitted to a mental health facility in Dec. 05, there were many allegations of stalking and other abnormal sexual behavior, he was kicked out of classes, and attempted to light his dorm room on fire. Reading his work should have def. sent up a flag for the university and VT should have took more drastic action. The question I'll pose is:

If the student was a white male, would the university have taken different action?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

Tom K wrote:

The more I read about this student, the more I feel that the university dropped the proverbial ball. He was clearly distrurbed. This student was admitted to a mental health facility in Dec. 05, there were many allegations of stalking and other abnormal sexual behavior, he was kicked out of classes, and attempted to light his dorm room on fire. Reading his work should have def. sent up a flag for the university and VT should have took more drastic action. The question I'll pose is:

If the student was a white male, would the university have taken different action?

They were probably hoping he'd drop out and go work somewhere like Wal-Mart like all the other students that fall through the cracks in the US.

mammasan

Tom K wrote:

The more I read about this student, the more I feel that the university dropped the proverbial ball. He was clearly distrurbed. This student was admitted to a mental health facility in Dec. 05, there were many allegations of stalking and other abnormal sexual behavior, he was kicked out of classes, and attempted to light his dorm room on fire. Reading his work should have def. sent up a flag for the university and VT should have took more drastic action. The question I'll pose is:

If the student was a white male, would the university have taken different action?

No and I don't think race is an issue nor is it even relevant.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

The dumb fuck ate far too many cereal bars...

soulsinging

Tom K wrote:

The more I read about this student, the more I feel that the university dropped the proverbial ball. He was clearly distrurbed. This student was admitted to a mental health facility in Dec. 05, there were many allegations of stalking and other abnormal sexual behavior, he was kicked out of classes, and attempted to light his dorm room on fire. Reading his work should have def. sent up a flag for the university and VT should have took more drastic action. The question I'll pose is:

If the student was a white male, would the university have taken different action?

i doubt it. my guess is they were worried about liability and being sued on some sort of first amendment grounds.

hippiemom

I read both of these plays last night. I'm apalled that these, on top of his other bizarre behavior, didn't elicit more of a response from the university.

Also, content aside, they look like they were written by a 12 year-old. In fact, if one of my kids had written something of that quality when they were 12, I wouldn't have allowed them to turn it in. Either this guy was very gifted in some other field of study, or the admissions standards at V-Tech are extremely low.

tybird

somebodyelse'ssky wrote:

. how did this get out? .

Apparently the other students in the class that the play was written in had copies...one works at AOL, that's how they got the copy according to this morning's paper.

OneLove

Tom K wrote:

The more I read about this student, the more I feel that the university dropped the proverbial ball. He was clearly distrurbed. This student was admitted to a mental health facility in Dec. 05, there were many allegations of stalking and other abnormal sexual behavior, he was kicked out of classes, and attempted to light his dorm room on fire. Reading his work should have def. sent up a flag for the university and VT should have took more drastic action. The question I'll pose is:

If the student was a white male, would the university have taken different action?

I honestly don't think that race played a role here. It just seems to be so completely unrelated. Having been to VA tech and knowing many who graduated from there, I can tell you that this campus is pretty well diversified. The campus is nearly idylic (spelling?), everyone just seemed to get along for the most part.

Soulsinging seemed to pick up on my "cry for help" comment earlier. Perhaps that was an unclear statement, no, the author wasn't literally saying "i need help", but often in situations like these people do things that will attract attention to themselves, ie attempting to set their dorm room on fire, etc.

Could the university have done more? Hard to say, if he was reccomended of offered help and he refused, they would have been in a bind to make him get help. Had he commited crimes before? Sounds like he may have, perhaps that was a missed opportunity too.

I have a really hard time blaming the university for this. Parents, loved ones, friends, the shooter himself, all of these people played a role in this persons life, for better or worse. Society as a whole has failed if people can get to the point that this man did.

You simply cannot force someone to get help. I know this first hand, the legal red tape that exists in my state of VA, and pretty much everywhere else makes it near impossible to make someone get help for issues that they aren't interested in helping themselves with.

By the time this person got to VA tech, it seems that it may have been late in the game, if you know what I mean. He had most likely already had years of trouble. I wonder what his high school & elementary school teachers thought. Chances are there were warning signs even back then.

I belive that there is a much larger lesson to be learned here. We all have opportunities in life to lift people up, rather than beat them down. I hope that I will be open enough to remember this the next time I am faced with a situation in which I have just that opportunity.