were the Japanese worse than the Nazis?

dunkman

I watched a documentary last night on CH4 and it was showing the brutality of the Japanese during WW2 especially towards the Chinese... so i was having a read of some websites this morning and looking for info on the Asian Holocaust and the Japanese were cruel fuckers it transpires... maybe even more so than the Nazis... who are probably more infamous in their mindless slaughter and collecting of gold teeth and hair.

even the death tolls are quite disturbing in terms of volume:-
It may be pointless to try to establish which World War Two Axis aggressor, Germany or Japan, was the more brutal to the peoples it victimised. The Germans killed six million Jews and 20 million Russians [i.e. Soviet citizens]; the Japanese slaughtered as many as 30 million Filipinos, Malays, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Indonesians and Burmese, at least 23 million of them ethnic Chinese. Both nations looted the countries they conquered on a monumental scale, though Japan plundered more, over a longer period, than the Nazis. Both conquerors enslaved millions and exploited them as forced labourers — and, in the case of the Japanese, as [forced] prostitutes for front-line troops. If you were a Nazi prisoner of war from Britain, America, Australia, New Zealand or Canada (but not Russia) you faced a 4 % chance of not surviving the war; [by comparison] the death rate for Allied POWs held by the Japanese was nearly 30 %.[1]

siochan

the japanese where indeed sadistic bastards during that period of time ....... as a legacy of their actions (to my knowledge) they aren't allowed to have a structured military ever again....... or something to that effect.

i've read some horrific things about what was done to the Chinese by the japanese ....

but that seems to be the way of our world - Not that it is the right way of course !

IndianSummer

true. the japanese counterpart of the SS was the "unit 61 " or something like that, which was into extermination of captured civilians.

the other deaths they inflicted were in combat.

so yes, they are no better than the nazis. and no less cruel.

brain of c

oh, no.

there goes tokyo.......
.

dunkman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfort_Women

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Soldier%27s_House


both would capture women and then have these women used as sex slaves for soldiers... the Japanese appear to be worse in that they transported these women into front line situations...

IndianSummer

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

Byrnzie

I would say it's pretty relative really. The Japanese treatment of Allied prisoners of war was indeed terrible. In terms of sheer numbers however, the Nazi's killed a lot more. But then Stalin starved about 20 million of his own people to death between 1929 and 1933.
The rape of Nanking by the Japanese army in 1937 is remarkable for the sheer savagery of the military, although was the clinical destruction of the Jews by the Nazi's any less savage in it's own peculiar way? It's hard to say.

IndianSummer

must read -


http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/japan.html

dunkman

Byrnzie wrote:

In terms of sheer numbers however, the Nazi's killed a lot more.

that was my mis-perception about all of this... the docu last night was suggesting otherwise

The Japanese military's use of forced labour, by Asian civilians and POWs also caused many deaths — more than 100,000 in the case of the Burma Railway alone. The Geneva Convention exempted POWs of sergeant rank or higher from manual labour, and stipulated that prisoners performing work should be provided with extra rations and other essentials. During World War II such rules were largely respected in German POW camps, except in the case of Soviet POWs. However, Japan was not a signatory at the time, and Japanese forces did not follow the convention

IndianSummer

dunkman1974 wrote:

However, Japan was not a signatory at the time, and Japanese forces did not follow the convention[/i]

then we cant say they broke rules.

Byrnzie

dunkman1974 wrote:

that was my mis-perception about all of this... the docu last night was suggesting otherwise

Did they suggest any figures?

dunkman

IndianSummer wrote:

then we cant say they broke rules.

nope we cant... but then its quite apparent that the killing of people for fun and the enslaving of others for sexual favours shouldnt really have fuckin rules anyway... any human being should know that it is wrong!

dunkman

Byrnzie wrote:

Did they suggest any figures?

not that i can remember but the historian chappie was suggesting the death toll in China to be far more than the holocaust... and even then Japan fucked over most of Korea and surrounding nations as well..

one of the actual artefacts they had last night was a Japanese 'news flyer' type of thing that was showing the faces of two officers who were competing against each other to see who could kill 100 chinese civilians first :eek:

this was performed by them duelling with the chinese guy in a sword fight... obviously these guys were highly trained nutjobs and thusly one of them had a total of 89 and the other guy needed to catch up as he was on 70-something... but there they were , smiling from the front of a Japanese military newspaper/flyer... how deranged is that!!

siochan

dunkman1974 wrote:

not that i can remember but the historian chappie was suggesting the death toll in China to be far more than the holocaust... and even then Japan fucked over most of Korea and surrounding nations as well..

one of the actual artefacts they had last night was a Japanese 'news flyer' type of thing that was showing the faces of two officers who were competing against each other to see who could kill 100 chinese civilians first :eek:

this was performed by them duelling with the chinese guy in a sword fight... obviously these guys were highly trained nutjobs and thusly one of them had a total of 89 and the other guy needed to catch up as he was on 70-something... but there they were , smiling from the front of a Japanese military newspaper/flyer... how deranged is that!!

Fucked up things are done in times of war - human beings I don't think are built to be killing machines .......... But when people are trained to be just that surely the mental balance is tipped .......

I find it extremely disturbing that anyone could put on a uniform and kill under the guise of some twisted nationlistic/ imperialistic ideal ...... I stated a few days ago in another thread somewhere - can't remember where ........ you'd think that with all these disgusting acts of the human race's past we'd have learned from our mistakes........

pretty dumb race aint we.........

brain of c

With a purposeful grimace and a terrible sound
He pulls the spitting high tension wires down

Helpless people on a subway train
Scream bug-eyed as he looks in on them

He picks up a bus and he throws it back down
As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town

Oh no, they say hes got to go
Go go godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes tokyo
Go go godzilla, yeah

Rinji news o moshiagemasu!
Rinji news o moshiagemasu!
Godzilla ga ginza hoomen e mukatte imasu!
Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai!
Daishkyu hinan shite kudasai!

Oh no, they say hes got to go
Go go godzilla, yeah
Oh no, there goes tokyo
Go go godzilla, yeah

History shows again and again
How nature points up the folly of men
Godzilla!

IndianSummer

siochan wrote:

pretty dumb race aint we.........

you will notice that the 4 greatest criminal peoples in the world are (in no particular order)

germanic man,
mongolian (as in from mongolia, i dont mean mongoloid),
arab-turkic
hispanic (latin american genocide and all).


pretty much all the greatest genocides in the world, barring the self inflicted commie carnages (like soviets on soviets or cambodians on cambodia), had these types on one or both sides of the war.

siochan

IndianSummer wrote:

you will notice that the 4 greatest criminal peoples in the world are (in no particular order)

germanic man,
mongolian (as in from mongolia, i dont mean mongoloid),
arab-turkic
hispanic (latin american genocide and all).


pretty much all the greatest genocides in the world, barring the self inflicted commie carnages (like soviets on soviets or cambodians on cambodia), had these types on one or both sides of the war.

Regardless of origins ....... we're all Humans

UpHereInMyTree500

I believe the Japanese were equally as cruel as the Nazi's but Japan was more determined then Germany to be a superpower at the time. Japan's 'New Order' was nothing more than an attempt to control East Asia, even though Tojo Hideki claimed the 'New Order' or 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' was a plan to unite East Asia and free it from Western ideals. At the time Japan was ruthless and if it wasn't for the oil embargo Japan may have well have taken over East Asia. The Battle of Midway was an extremely close battle and had that battle gone Japan's way East Asia was doomed. Japan's atrocities started during the second Sino-Japanese War where they raped and pillaged countless numbers of Chinese people. This attitude continued until they were defeated in World War 2.

BUT

It can be argued that the West forced Japan to take on an expansionist attitude. When Commodore Matthew Perry forcibly opened up Japan's shores to the Western World in the mid 1800's, Japan had to change in order to survive. Japan is only a small area of land compared to the Western superpowers and expansion was seen as a way of survival.

IndianSummer

UpHereInMyTree500 wrote:

I believe the Japanese were equally as cruel as the Nazi's but Japan was more determined then Germany to be a superpower at the time. Japan's 'New Order' was nothing more than an attempt to control East Asia, even though Tojo Hideki claimed the 'New Order' or 'Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere' was a plan to unite East Asia and free it from Western ideals. At the time Japan was ruthless and if it wasn't for the oil embargo Japan may have well have taken over East Asia. The Battle of Midway was an extremely close battle and had that battle gone Japan's way East Asia was doomed. Japan's atrocities started during the second Sino-Japanese War where they raped and pillaged countless numbers of Chinese people. This attitude continued until they were defeated in World War 2.

BUT

It can be argued that the West forced Japan to take on an expansionist attitude. When Commodore Matthew Perry forcibly opened up Japan's shores to the Western World in the mid 1800's, Japan had to change in order to survive. Japan is only a small area of land compared to the Western superpowers and expansion was seen as a way of survival.

can you supply links or material about the
1) oil embargo
2) battle of midway
thanks.

A Surprise Left

The main difference is the Germans today are ashamed of what they did and fully admit in their education system the wrongs of the Nazi error. The Japanese meanwhile try to pretend they weren't so bad.

UpHereInMyTree500

IndianSummer wrote:

can you supply links or material about the
1) oil embargo
2) battle of midway
thanks.

umm i dont know of any sites...but the oil embargo happened after the Japanese invaded French Indonesia in mid 1941. The Americans, who were also involved in the Japanese occupation of China, told the Japanese to withdraw their troops from Japan but they didnt. The Americans stopped the oil supply to Japan. Japan relied heavily on this oil supply. Japan's naval fleet would only last a further year without oil. Japan needed a way to get oil and they could get some oil from Indonesian areas but they needed the American oil. They attacked Pearl Harbour in the hope that it would scare the Americans into reinstating the flow of oil.


I dont know much about Midway sorry, I only know it was close