If Africa were white...

Fifthelement

Perhaps the OP was trying to invoke the "A Time to Kill" summation. "Close your eyes . . . Now imagine that little girl was white." Not sure if that was her intent, but honestly that was the first thing that came to my mind.

Pax!

Bwalker545

No defiantly not sitting in an exam for it.
Wrote a 10 page paper on the perpetrators of the Bosnian Genocide, and my final is a take home essay, "Which of the six genocides we have studied has had the greatest effect on you and why?"
Not exactly a right or wrong answer.
Genocide is very clearly not an african issue. Genocide has happened to every race on nearly every continent. It a horrible ugly thing, but like the article says its not something that is impossible to understand, its just REALLY hard on your psyche and grasp of humanity when you start to see...

Heineken Helen

Fifthelement wrote:

There are some good points in this post but I think you have to go back further than just the last twenty-five years or so (the first Live-Aid) to put what happens now in Africa and other post-Colonial countries in perspective. I think part of the problem that Western countries have with aid to third-world countries is the fact that when many of these former countries were decolonized the colonists left them without any sustainable infrastructures (I don't mean buildings or things) but left the indigenous peoples without a way of continuing on (not that many of them wanted the reminders of their servitude). Many of the native inhabitants of post-Colonial countries reduced themselves to the us versus them i.e. Hutus versus Tutsi mentality (just as their colonists originally encouraged) it was, and often continues to be, a way of undermining meaningful growth by western standards. Many of these countries are run by corrupt regimes, warlords if you will. Any aid that does come from the UN and other agencies is often left to rot in port or sold to the highest bidders. The 'little' people often do not receive aid. Collective guilt by former colonists or a perceived white paternalistic attitude further erodes serious efforts at combating endemic death and disease in third-world countries.

Just my 2 cents.

Great topic HH.

P.S. Romeo Dallaire is a great man who couldn't deal with what he saw happening. He was forced into retirement due to severe depression brought on by his experiences in Africa. His book is an amazing wake-up call.

good post... but those of you refusing to believe that race is the... or one of the main reasons... why do you think the collective 'we' reacted in such a different manner to Bosnia? I'm now 200 pages into the book and Dallaire had informed the UN months before it all kicked off... about what was going to happen! And with pretty solid information... and yet they kept cutting his funding, removing levels of his responsibility and most of the time not even replying to his reports

Heineken Helen

harmless_little_f*** wrote:

I don't think it's a race issue, we are equally apathetic to extreme poverty in Britain and Europe... Bosnia and other parts of Eastern Europe for example. The problem is larger; we find it convenient to ignore things which aren't happening on our doortstep. Indeed, sometimes we're willfully ignoring poverty which is on our own doorsteps by the way we choose to live.

that is a good point. I guess also it's EASIER to help those who are closer. I would find it impossible to allow somebody I know, even through association, to go homeless.

I don't know though... it seems pretty clear from reading the book that, whether or not it's a race issue, the Rwandan's were definitely considered lesser people than the Bosnians. What other reason could there be?

Heineken Helen

prljmngrl wrote:

genocide is not strictly a "black" issue. I think the OP was being prejudistic in such an assumption.

where did I say it IS just a black thing? The point I'm making is that the white genocides get treated quicker and more efficiently than any of them in Africa.

harmless_little_f***

Heineken Helen wrote:

that is a good point. I guess also it's EASIER to help those who are closer. I would find it impossible to allow somebody I know, even through association, to go homeless.

I don't know though... it seems pretty clear from reading the book that, whether or not it's a race issue, the Rwandan's were definitely considered lesser people than the Bosnians. What other reason could there be?

To be honest, I'm not sure the advertising companies help much either... We're encouraged to believe that we can do something for Eastern europe. We can visit, we can help in orphanages, we can have a gap year/travel break and help with economic collapse.... an answer is within our grasp.

As far as Africa goes, we're told that 'Just your 50p a month will feed and clothe a family for a year'... 'This year, why not buy a goat instead of a cake'... and we're left thinking 'That's not real help, I'm powerless.'

even flow?

If Africa were white there would be no problems? Didnt' the whites try and make South Africa theirs? I remember a few problems.

Heineken Helen

even flow? wrote:

If Africa were white there would be no problems? Didnt' the whites try and make South Africa theirs? I remember a few problems.

that's not what I'm talking about and you know it

cornnifer

even flow? wrote:

If Africa were white there would be no problems? Didnt' the whites try and make South Africa theirs? I remember a few problems.

i guaranfuckingtee you if Africa were white we (U.S. and much of the rest of the world) would have intervened in Darfur a long fucking time ago. There's no way around that.

rebornFixer

Don't be so sure ... Yugoslavs are largely white, and not that much was done there. Perhaps more than in Africa, but not much more.
Its a more complicated situation that just race, although I am sure the latter is one factor.

sourdough

I think people's idea of Africa is one of helplessness and therefore apathy. It becomes another Africa being Africa story where we are bombarded with one crisis after another.

Right now we have:

The deadliest war since WWII in the Congo (5 million dead)
a 20 year civil war in North Uganda
the genocide in Darfur
mass chaos and anarchy in Somolia
the AIDS and murder capital of the world in South Africa
political instability and mass killings in Kenya
Inflation of 165000% (can you imagine!!!) and an election being stolen in Zimbabwe

This PLUS the mass famine that is taking place and starvation/AIDS throughout.

I am going to Uganda this summer to work at an aid clinic there and get so upset with the amount of indifference here. People are tired of hearing about Africa. It is so abstract that it may as well exist on another planet. Really how much can any of us who haven't been there really empathize with the situation. Most people can't but what is worse is that most people have given up on trying.

One of the more politically incorrect truths is that Africans have just done a shitty job of governing themselves and the poplulation is very compliant. Corrupt leaders and a compliant population breed a disasterous combination. The world HAS provided and forgeiven billions of dollars of debt already and yet crooked governments have squandered aid, money and resources. As much as people like to point the finger at the rich countries for not doing enough, we have to point the finger at Africa itself for squandering opportunities it has been given.

rebornFixer

sourdough wrote:

One of the more politically incorrect truths is that Africans have just done a shitty job of governing themselves and the poplulation is very compliant. Corrupt leaders and a compliant population breed a disasterous combination. The world HAS provided and forgeiven billions of dollars of debt already and yet crooked governments have squandered aid, money and resources. As much as people like to point the finger at the rich countries for not doing enough, we have to point the finger at Africa itself for squandering opportunities it has been given.

Agreed. This is one of those times were we need to be a bit un-PC and acknowledge ALL the factors that play into a bad situation. This is clearly one of them.

sourdough

My question for those following this thread and agree that there is something that needs to be done is...

If we are serious that the problems in Africa are of the most urgent and disasterous that the world faces, what are you doing as an individual to address it?

I'm tired of talk and no action.

JOEJOEJOE

sourdough wrote:

My question for those following this thread and agree that there is something that needs to be done is...

If we are serious that the problems in Africa are of the most urgent and disasterous that the world faces, what are you doing as an individual to address it?

I'm tired of talk and no action.

People are too busy maxing out their credit cards or earmarking their economic stimulus checks to go see PJ in NYC!...why worry about starving or oppressed people?

Did you see the bit on The Daily Show where the made a comedic parallel between the food shortage in India, and the so-called "Rice shortage" in the U.S.? Rob Riggle was at a Costco, and he, with great concern on his face, pointed out that you can only buy 4 large bags of rice per day, then they cut away to Aasif Mandvi, who is greenscreened in front of a building in India, where he is reporting on their REAL food shortage. The look of amazement on his face in response to Rob Riggle was funny, but it did make a good point about putting our "problems" into perspective.

To answer your question, after seeing this documentary http://www.thedevilcameonhorseback.com/, I got DVDs of it, and gave it to some of my celebrity clients in the hope that they would champion the cause, since everyone seems to listen to them!

To simply sit back and say that things would get more attention if the people were white is just plain apathetic!

beachdweller

Heineken Helen wrote:

there would be none of the problems there are now! I just started reading 'shake hands with the devil' by Romeo Dallaire, the UN force commander during the Rwandan conflict. The introduction describes a three year old child covered in dust with flies all over the sores on his body just wandering the road, walking over rotten bodies, that kinda thing. I realised that obviously nowhere did the author say the kid was black... so I tried to pretend he was white... suddenly the book turned into a post apocolyptic fantasy horror! It just wasn't believeable when the kid was white at all. Why is it so easy to take these things in when they're talking about Africa? He explains why he found it impossible to get any help from anybody... cos everybody was focussed on what was going on in the Balkans.

Are we really that fucking shallow? :mad:

I think the plan is to continue to let them destroy themselves from within, and then we'll have cheap land for condo's...now I don't actually believe there is a conspiracy like this, but the problem is, if there was, I wouldn't be surprised...I think that alone shows how kcufed up we are as a species.

Urban Hiker

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

People are too busy maxing out their credit cards or earmarking their economic stimulus checks to go see PJ in NYC!...why worry about starving or oppressed people?


To simply sit back and say that things would get more attention if the people were white is just plain apathetic!

Truly. Americans at the very least are too busy with STUFF to look around. The same shit is happening around the world. Ethnic disputes in one place, gang rivalries in another.