Why do parents feel they have to kill their kids?

Heineken Helen

This is one thing that has always puzzled me... cases of parents killing their kids and then taking their own lives. Do they feel they're better off out of this life?

There's a case in Ireland at the moment of a husband and wife who apparently planned it all between them... he killed her and the two daughters (3 & 5) and then hung himself :( . The details are still coming out but the alarm was raised on Friday when the 4 of them visited an undertakers and actually ordered 4 coffins, including 2 for kids and specified what they wanted the kids to be buried in... explaining that they were just worried in case they were killed in a car crash that everything would be covered. The undertaker figured it out though because when they were saying what they wanted the kids to be buried in, they mentioned clothes they only make for kids. So she called the guards who then seem to have fucked it up a bit... they told the UNDERTAKER that she should call the local priest as they had mentioned him :rolleyes: so SHE called the priest who called into the family and left, reporting to the guards that everything seemed fine.

Monday morning the 4 bodies were found :(

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0424/enniscorthy.html

So WHY do parents do this? This comes two years after a woman in the same area went to the social services asking for help on a Saturday and was told to come back Monday :eek: . In the meantime she killed herself and 2 of her 3 daughters :(

mammasan

I chalk it up to some people being really fucked up in the head. I have three boys and I would never ever hurt them. I can't even begin to image doing anything to them. You have to be seriously screwed up to do something like that.

josevolution

whoa that really is sick i can't see anything being that bad to take the life of the kids no way ,i could never even entertain the thought of my 2 kids dying like that by my hands .........

dunkman

i cant read stories like this... i read your first two lines and that was enough for me :(

hippiemom

Maybe they think they're doing the kids a favor by getting them out of this horrible world. I mean, they always kill themselves too, so they obviously think it's a terrible place. Maybe in their twisted minds they feel like they're doing the best thing.

That's all I can figure, but what do I know ... there's no force on earth that could make me even hurt my kids, much less kill them.

Heineken Helen

hippiemom wrote:

Maybe they think they're doing the kids a favor by getting them out of this horrible world. I mean, they always kill themselves too, so they obviously think it's a terrible place. Maybe in their twisted minds they feel like they're doing the best thing.

That's all I can figure, but what do I know ... there's no force on earth that could make me even hurt my kids, much less kill them.

That's the way I see it too... I mean the neighbours are saying they were GREAT parents and did everything for the kids.

It's a sad family story though, his father died last year and his brother committed suicide a month ago . He's suffers from hereditary blindness... and the kids have it too and most of his siblings.

You would have to REALLY crack up to do something like that but I can't say I've seen a story before where the two parents planned it between them :eek: :(

chadwick

hippiemom wrote:

Maybe they think they're doing the kids a favor by getting them out of this horrible world. I mean, they always kill themselves too, so they obviously think it's a terrible place. Maybe in their twisted minds they feel like they're doing the best thing.

That's all I can figure, but what do I know ... there's no force on earth that could make me even hurt my kids, much less kill them.

with all due respect to your post, i must point out something i feel need be.
this world, this earth, is not horrible.
man-kind is the horrible beast that ruins beauty.
this globe is not horrible.
thats all i gotta say.

JaneNY

Heineken Helen wrote:

That's the way I see it too... I mean the neighbours are saying they were GREAT parents and did everything for the kids.

It's a sad family story though, his father died last year and his brother committed suicide a month ago . (

If a brother committed suicide too, maybe mental illness runs in the family. Because that's really the only reason I can think of. Sad story in any case.

gaz

Heineken Helen wrote:

This is one thing that has always puzzled me... cases of parents killing their kids and then taking their own lives. Do they feel they're better off out of this life?

There's a case in Ireland at the moment of a husband and wife who apparently planned it all between them... he killed her and the two daughters (3 & 5) and then hung himself :( . The details are still coming out but the alarm was raised on Friday when the 4 of them visited an undertakers and actually ordered 4 coffins, including 2 for kids and specified what they wanted the kids to be buried in... explaining that they were just worried in case they were killed in a car crash that everything would be covered. The undertaker figured it out though because when they were saying what they wanted the kids to be buried in, they mentioned clothes they only make for kids. So she called the guards who then seem to have fucked it up a bit... they told the UNDERTAKER that she should call the local priest as they had mentioned him :rolleyes: so SHE called the priest who called into the family and left, reporting to the guards that everything seemed fine.

Monday morning the 4 bodies were found :(

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0424/enniscorthy.html

So WHY do parents do this? This comes two years after a woman in the same area went to the social services asking for help on a Saturday and was told to come back Monday :eek: . In the meantime she killed herself and 2 of her 3 daughters :(

This is actually Gaz's wife, but having heard about this on monday I just couldn't quite get it out of my head. To see the two little white coffins being brought away in the hearse on the news actually brought tears to my eyes. As a mother of two little boys of almost the same age as those kids I cannot comprehend what would make both parents come to such a drastic solution.
Coming from an area thats close to where this happened I feel that suicide seems to be the answer a lot of people choose. The rate of suicide in the south east of Ireland seems to me to be huge. only last week a man in his mid twenties jumped off a cliff only 5 miles away, and in the small village in Kilkenny I originally come from someone regularly commits suicide. I dont get it, is it something down here that people dont feel they can't ask for help?
This is more tragic though. I know it may not be politically correct but if they wanted to kill themselves, let them, but to suffocate your own children seems kinda selfish to me, like they wanted out but were feeling guilty about leaving their kids behind. It's just sick to me.

justam

Heineken Helen wrote:

This is one thing that has always puzzled me... cases of parents killing their kids and then taking their own lives. Do they feel they're better off out of this life?

There's a case in Ireland at the moment of a husband and wife who apparently planned it all between them... he killed her and the two daughters (3 & 5) and then hung himself :( . The details are still coming out but the alarm was raised on Friday when the 4 of them visited an undertakers and actually ordered 4 coffins, including 2 for kids and specified what they wanted the kids to be buried in... explaining that they were just worried in case they were killed in a car crash that everything would be covered. The undertaker figured it out though because when they were saying what they wanted the kids to be buried in, they mentioned clothes they only make for kids. So she called the guards who then seem to have fucked it up a bit... they told the UNDERTAKER that she should call the local priest as they had mentioned him :rolleyes: so SHE called the priest who called into the family and left, reporting to the guards that everything seemed fine.

Monday morning the 4 bodies were found :(

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0424/enniscorthy.html

So WHY do parents do this? This comes two years after a woman in the same area went to the social services asking for help on a Saturday and was told to come back Monday :eek: . In the meantime she killed herself and 2 of her 3 daughters :(

I wonder the same thing when I read stories like these. I think "Fine, be a coward and kill yourself, but why drag your whole family along?"

There was a father in own city that shot his whole family with a rifle a few years ago. He should have saved everyone some grief and killed himself first. :mad:

There must be some crazy logic to it...as if they feel like they own the children so they can dispose of them? It makes me really angry though.

hippiemom

chadwick wrote:

with all due respect to your post, i must point out something i feel need be.
this world, this earth, is not horrible.
man-kind is the horrible beast that ruins beauty.
this globe is not horrible.
thats all i gotta say.

I didn't say that I thought that, only that it's what I think the parents in this case were thinking ... their own lives were so miserable, maybe they thought they were doing the right thing, sparing their kids from all that misery to come.

chadwick

hippiemom wrote:

I didn't say that I thought that, only that it's what I think the parents in this case were thinking ... their own lives were so miserable, maybe they thought they were doing the right thing, sparing their kids from all that misery to come.

i understand hippie.
i wasnt really putting you in check.
just adding to yours.
yea those parents are quite miserable.

Ahnimus

Perhaps they realized there is no God and killed themselves and the children because society is all fucked up with God on the brain.

Although, I don't presume to know and I don't think any of us will fully understand it, or else we'd do it ourselves.

gaz

hippiemom wrote:

I didn't say that I thought that, only that it's what I think the parents in this case were thinking ... their own lives were so miserable, maybe they thought they were doing the right thing, sparing their kids from all that misery to come.

Maybe in some way they believed that by doing this they would all have a better life together somewhere else. A better place, you know? I dunno, I just feel that no matter how messed up you are, or however much you feel that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, to not only kill your two kids, but actually sit down with your partner and plan it, and visit an undertaker, and even pick out the clothes you wanted them buried in is way past comrehension to me.
They must have felt somehow what they were doing was logical. Theres arguments now going on here as to whether the health services did enough and whether it could have been prevented, but I think they would have done it when they got a chance regardless.

hippiemom

gaz wrote:

Maybe in some way they believed that by doing this they would all have a better life together somewhere else. A better place, you know? I dunno, I just feel that no matter how messed up you are, or however much you feel that there is no light at the end of the tunnel, to not only kill your two kids, but actually sit down with your partner and plan it, and visit an undertaker, and even pick out the clothes you wanted them buried in is way past comrehension to me.
They must have felt somehow what they were doing was logical. Theres arguments now going on here as to whether the health services did enough and whether it could have been prevented, but I think they would have done it when they got a chance regardless.

Yeah, these two were pretty far gone. Of course we can't understand it ... I'd be more than a little worried if anyone said this made perfect sense to them.

small town beck

I was just reading about this on the BBC. Sad..so very sad and I will not ever understand what makes people do such things. I have a hard enough time wrapping my mind around violence as it is let alone something of this nature :(

gaz

hippiemom wrote:

Yeah, these two were pretty far gone. Of course we can't understand it ... I'd be more than a little worried if anyone said this made perfect sense to them.

Thats so true. As parents you do all you can to protect and make sure your kids are safe and then you hear about something like this and it kinda makes me feel angry that anyone can have kids and it doesn't matter how fucked up you are.
As I said before though there is a serious suicide problem in this part of the country and its not getting any better. I think theres kinda an attitude of 'just get on with it, stop feeling sorry for yourself' here. Psychological problems don't seem to be considered a 'real' illness.

hippiemom

gaz wrote:

Thats so true. As parents you do all you can to protect and make sure your kids are safe and then you hear about something like this and it kinda makes me feel angry that anyone can have kids and it doesn't matter how fucked up you are.
As I said before though there is a serious suicide problem in this part of the country and its not getting any better. I think theres kinda an attitude of 'just get on with it, stop feeling sorry for yourself' here. Psychological problems don't seem to be considered a 'real' illness.

In 2001 (the last year I found statistics for in my 30-second search) there were 16,037 murders in the U.S. .... and 30,622 suicides. Why this isn't perceived as a huge problem is a mystery to me.

Brain of J.Lo

hippiemom wrote:

In 2001 (the last year I found statistics for in my 30-second search) there were 16,037 murders in the U.S. .... and 30,622 suicides. Why this isn't perceived as a huge problem is a mystery to me.

I had no idea it was that widespread. That is frightening and sad.

dunkman

my wee girls are 3 & 5 and i cant even smack them... they make me laugh so much i cry... they are my life.

i wouldnt even bury that fucker regardless of his mental state... i'd leave him to rot in a paedophiles garden

small town beck

dunkman wrote:

my wee girls are 3 & 5 and i cant even smack them... they make me laugh so much i cry... they are my life.

i wouldnt even bury that fucker regardless of his mental state... i'd leave him to rot in a paedophiles garden

That first line was so sweet, dunk Your girls are lucky to have you..

dunkman

small town beck wrote:

Your girls are lucky to have you..

thats very sweet... but its i look at in reverse. I'm very lucky to have them...

i'm just their silly daddy... they have no idea how much they mean to me

upina2001

dunkman wrote:

thats very sweet... but its i look at in reverse. I'm very lucky to have them...

i'm just their silly daddy... they have no idea how much they mean to me

I feel the same way, bro. I have a 4 yr old daughter, and she makes me happier than anything in the world. (except when PJ comes to town)

small town beck

dunkman wrote:

thats very sweet... but its i look at in reverse. I'm very lucky to have them...

i'm just their silly daddy... they have no idea how much they mean to me

I know but still it is so sweet. I hope some day I have my own and am lucky enough to find a man with your point of view Just the way you put it was so nice.

I have a nephew and to watch him grow and be amazed by the world really moves me. The little things he says or when he puts his head on my shoulder he just melts my heart. I can't EVEN imagine someone hurting him.

dunkman

small town beck wrote:

I know but still it is so sweet. I hope some day I have my own and am lucky enough to find a man with your point of view Just the way you put it was so nice.

oh sorry beck i meant it as a thank you.. thanks very much, i thought what you said was lovely

I have a nephew and to watch him grow and be amazed by the world really moves me. The little things he says or when he puts his head on my shoulder he just melts my heart. I can't EVEN imagine someone hurting him.

just watching them play around with things and their own made up wee words... beautiful!!!

my wee one said tonight she had a "baby rexasoris".. it was a toy dinosaur

small town beck

dunkman wrote:

oh sorry beck i meant it as a thank you.. thanks very much, i thought what you said was lovely



just watching them play around with things and their own made up wee words... beautiful!!!

my wee one said tonight she had a "baby rexasoris".. it was a toy dinosaur

Oh don't be sorry I didn't take it the wrong way. Thanks.

Baby rexasoris.. classic My little nephew calls elephants elabas.. I LOVE hearing him say that. I mean he is ony fifteen months and I am already convinced he is brilliant

musicismylife78

what makes kids kill kids?

What makes office workers go off the handle and murder everyone?

If we say we will never know why this happens, then we will never know. Plain and simple.

I think in my mind, these killings will continue as long as civilization stands. We are what we create. if we create a world with guns, violence, rape and murder, why are we suprised and shocked that violence and murder occurs? Why are we shocked kids are killing other kids in a blaze of gunfire?

More and more people are getting fed up with society, with the system, with civilization. More and more people are hoping to find the "place where no cars go".

As Derrick Jensen brilliantly puts it...

At what point do you consider this an apocalypse? What do you need to have happen for you to do something? Will the death of the last polar bear wake you up? Will the death of the last spotted owl wake you up?

At what point do you actually do something?

At what point do you say, "90 percent of people spend most of their waking hours doing jobs they hate, and cancer rates and other diseases of civilization is through the roof"

At what point is this not the work of a crazy psycho or crazed lone nut?

The original poster should have asked, why in society do we tacitly accept the deaths of children and adults as the price we have to pay living in a free society?

somebodyelsessky2020

psychotic is the only word that comes to mind...

boxwine_in_hell

Because they're selfish pricks that obviously shouldn't have kids in the first place?

Ahnimus

I don't mean to come off aggressive. You know? Guys, I'm just trying to share what I've learned.

Psychosis i.e. "Psychotic" is not what most people think. Usually they are thinking of Psychopathy. Psychosis affects a lot of people.

"...most people have unusual and reality-distorting experiences at some point in their lives, without being impaired or even distressed by these experiences. For example, many people have experienced hallucinations, and some have even found inspiration or religious revelation in them.[4] As a result, it has been argued that psychosis is not fundamentally separate from normal consciousness, but rather, is on a continuum with normal consciousness.[5] In this view, people who are clinically found to be psychotic, may simply be having particularly intense or distressing experiences (see schizotypy). There are superficial forms of psychosis, for example the kind of "intentional psychosis" that Hamlet suffered in the Shakespeare play."

Psychopathy on the other hand.

"...is currently defined in psychiatry and clinical psychology as a condition characterized by lack of empathy [1] [2] or conscience, and poor impulse control [3] [4] or manipulative behaviors.[5] It is a term derived from the Greek psyche (soul, breath hence mind) and pathos (to suffer), and was once used to denote any form of mental illness, often being confused with psychosis."

I think they were more than likely psychopaths. Or they really loved their children and rationalized some reason they shouldn't live. Which would make sense if they had some strong ideological convictions, like.. murder ourselves during the next meteor shower and we will ascend to heaven.. that kind of thinking has got lot's of people killed, including children. I suppose then that would be some extreme psychosis. Either condition is probably pretty rare, but in billions of people your going to have a lot of stories to tell. This doesn't surprise me at all.

Heineken Helen

gaz wrote:

This is actually Gaz's wife, but having heard about this on monday I just couldn't quite get it out of my head. To see the two little white coffins being brought away in the hearse on the news actually brought tears to my eyes. As a mother of two little boys of almost the same age as those kids I cannot comprehend what would make both parents come to such a drastic solution.
Coming from an area thats close to where this happened I feel that suicide seems to be the answer a lot of people choose. The rate of suicide in the south east of Ireland seems to me to be huge. only last week a man in his mid twenties jumped off a cliff only 5 miles away, and in the small village in Kilkenny I originally come from someone regularly commits suicide. I dont get it, is it something down here that people dont feel they can't ask for help?
This is more tragic though. I know it may not be politically correct but if they wanted to kill themselves, let them, but to suffocate your own children seems kinda selfish to me, like they wanted out but were feeling guilty about leaving their kids behind. It's just sick to me.

Hi Gaz's wife you need to get a username and post more often

It's just completely incomprehensible... I suppose we really cannot even begin to understand how and why someone could do this but it's just so sad. To plan everything out so meticulously between them

I really don't know what can be done though... I think if somebody's suicidal they're going to do it. The ones who send cries for help are the ones who want to be helped - some don't. It's like they feel this is naturally what comes next.

It's ironic that now her family won't allow her and the kids be buried with him... despite all the plans they laid out. I just don't understand how they thought they'd get away with (which they did) going into a funeral home and making all the plans making it almost obvious what was going to happen. Why didn't they just leave a note with all the details? There would have been no suspicion then in the first place and nobody else would have got dragged into it.

I do feel though that the only one who took it seriously and did everything she could was the undertaker. Fair play to her... it's just a shame nobody listened.

It's also emerged that her parents were worried about her because he was very controlling... and they had asked on several occasions that the authorities keep an eye on the family. So they can't say they weren't aware of any 'situation'.