Genetics of Homosexuality

NoK

onelongsong wrote:

no disrespect intended; but does this mean homosexuality is an illness again?

If you consider having green eyes an illness...

onelongsong

NoK wrote:

If you consider having green eyes an illness...

the question was posed because if homosexuality can be cured; that makes it an illness; thus from a legal standpoint; gays wouldn't have; for example; the right to wed.
if you still don't get it; i was asking what the legal ramifications of this study could be and how that would effect our current society.

puremagic

For Fruit Flies, Gene Shift Tilts Sex Orientation

By ELISABETH ROSENTHAL,
International Herald Tribune
Published: June 3, 2005

When the genetically altered fruit fly was released into the observation chamber, it did what these breeders par excellence tend to do. It pursued a waiting virgin female. It gently tapped the girl with its leg, played her a song (using wings as instruments) and, only then, dared to lick her - all part of standard fruit fly seduction.

The observing scientist looked with disbelief at the show, for the suitor in this case was not a male, but a female that researchers had artificially endowed with a single male-type gene.

That one gene, the researchers are announcing today in the journal Cell, is apparently by itself enough to create patterns of sexual behavior - a kind of master sexual gene that normally exists in two distinct male and female variants.

In a series of experiments, the researchers found that females given the male variant of the gene acted exactly like males in courtship, madly pursuing other females. Males that were artificially given the female version of the gene became more passive and turned their sexual attention to other males.

"We have shown that a single gene in the fruit fly is sufficient to determine all aspects of the flies' sexual orientation and behavior," said the paper's lead author, Dr. Barry Dickson, senior scientist at the Institute of Molecular Biotechnology at the Austrian Academy of Sciences in Vienna. "It's very surprising.

"What it tells us is that instinctive behaviors can be specified by genetic programs, just like the morphologic development of an organ or a nose."

The results are certain to prove influential in debates about whether genes or environment determine who we are, how we act and, especially, our sexual orientation, although it is not clear now if there is a similar master sexual gene for humans.

Still, experts said they were both awed and shocked by the findings. "The results are so clean and compelling, the whole field of the genetic roots of behavior is moved forward tremendously by this work," said Dr. Michael Weiss, chairman of the department of biochemistry at Case Western Reserve University. "Hopefully this will take the discussion about sexual preferences out of the realm of morality and put it in the realm of science."

He added: "I never chose to be heterosexual; it just happened. But humans are complicated. With the flies we can see in a simple and elegant way how a gene can influence and determine behavior."

The finding supports scientific evidence accumulating over the past decade that sexual orientation may be innately programmed into the brains of men and women. Equally intriguing, the researchers say, is the possibility that a number of behaviors - hitting back when feeling threatened, fleeing when scared or laughing when amused - may also be programmed into human brains, a product of genetic heritage.

"This is a first - a superb demonstration that a single gene can serve as a switch for complex behaviors," said Dr. Gero Miesenboeck, a professor of cell biology at Yale.

Dr. Dickson, the lead author, said he ran into the laboratory when an assistant called him on a Sunday night with the results. "This really makes you think about how much of our behavior, perhaps especially sexual behaviors, has a strong genetic component," he said.

All the researchers cautioned that any of these wired behaviors set by master genes will probably be modified by experience. Though male fruit flies are programmed to pursue females, Dr. Dickson said, those that are frequently rejected over time become less aggressive in their mating behavior.

When a normal male fruit fly is introduced to a virgin female, they almost immediately begin foreplay and then copulate for 20 minutes. In fact, Dr. Dickson and his co-author, Dr. Ebru Demir of the Institute of Molecular Biotechnology, specifically chose to look for the genetic basis of fly sexual behavior precisely because it seemed so strong and instinctive and, therefore, predictable.

Scientists have known for several years that the master sexual gene, known as fru, was central to mating, coordinating a network of neurons that were involved in the male fly's courtship ritual. Last year, Dr. Bruce Baker of Stanford University discovered that the mating circuit controlled by the gene involved 60 nerve cells and that if any of these were damaged or destroyed by the scientists, the animal could not mate properly. Both male and female flies have the same genetic material as well as the neural circuitry required for the mating ritual, but different parts of the genes are turned on in the two sexes. But no one dreamed that simply activating the normally dormant male portion of the gene in a female fly could cause a genetic female to display the whole elaborate panoply of male fruit fly foreplay.

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They could the same results with humans who have a drug addiction or too much alcohol, without the genetic manipulation.

NoK

onelongsong wrote:

the question was posed because if homosexuality can be cured; that makes it an illness; thus from a legal standpoint; gays wouldn't have; for example; the right to wed.
if you still don't get it; i was asking what the legal ramifications of this study could be and how that would effect our current society.

I "get it". The word cured is wrong. Do you cure someone with green eyes if you alter the gene to get a brown phenotype?

Saying homosexuality can be cured is like saying heterosexuality can be cured. Unless science is able to determine that the reason homosexuality occurs is due to an ABNORMAL alternation in the gene, the word cured doesn't fit.

Scubascott

onelongsong wrote:

the question was posed because if homosexuality can be cured; that makes it an illness; thus from a legal standpoint; gays wouldn't have; for example; the right to wed.
if you still don't get it; i was asking what the legal ramifications of this study could be and how that would effect our current society.

Most human traits (maybe all) are genetically defined. Just because there is evidence that homosexuality has a genetic basis does not make it an illness. Many other human behaviours can be modified with drugs. That doesn't make them illnesses that need to be 'cured'.

Come Back in Black

Well its definitely not about being "cured". I can "cure" my lack of breasts by taking estrogen. It's not really a cure. It's an option. What this does is bring up a facinating discussion about choice. If they discovered a way to turn people back and forth then someone who was gay and was NOT completely happy to go through life in that way because of discrimination or other reasons could choose to try it. Of course this is something that should never be done involantarily or be forced upon by parents etc. It should be something that requires you to be an adult and undergo behavioral or mental testing just like a sex change requires before it can be performed. If people are willing to get their willies lopped off then surely there is someone who would consider this option. It's not about right or wrong. At least to me.

NoK

Come Back in Black wrote:

Well its definitely not about being "cured". I can "cure" my lack of breasts by taking estrogen. It's not really a cure. It's an option. What this does is bring up a facinating discussion about choice. If they discovered a way to turn people back and forth then someone who was gay and was NOT completely happy to go through life in that way because of discrimination or other reasons could choose to try it. Of course this is something that should never be done involantarily or be forced upon by parents etc. It should be something that requires you to be an adult and undergo behavioral or mental testing just like a sex change requires before it can be performed. If people are willing to get their willies lopped off then surely there is someone who would consider this option. It's not about right or wrong. At least to me.

Good point. But there will be people who argue that it will eventually get abused by others.

OutOfBreath

dontloseyourheat wrote:

It seems that science is getting closer and closer to identifying the cause of homosexuality.

Scientists in Chicago are currently studying groups of brothers that are both gay to try and determine the cause of their sexuality.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,302066,00.html



Another interesting topic is Childhood Gender Nonconformity. CGN is when a young child tends to behave as if they were a member of the opposite sex. This is especially interesting because these children do not understand sexuality. They are not fueled by sexual desire or the ability to comply to some "norm". They just simply behave differently

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/magazine/articles/2005/08/14/what_makes_people_gay/

No disrespect or anything, and I suppose the intentions of the research is fine enough.

However, I do get the vibe of early 1900s "How to stop kids masturbating" and the like. Morals, tradition and habits, dressed up as science. If they had had knowledge of genes and the like back then, you'd be sure they'd seek out the "masturbation gene" or something.

Peace
Dan

lalalalaaaaaaaa

steve_inhiding wrote:

No offense to anyone intended.

But who the fuck cares!! For gods sake, if you're gay you're gay!

I've many gay friends who are completely happy being who they are and have always said they were gay from the first day they could remember. If it's genes or upbringing, who really cares!! In fact, although homosexuality is against reproduction, I believe it clearly (in a utopian society) promotes acceptance. Just leave them the fuck alone!!!!

Again, sorry if I offended anyone with either language or ideas but this topic drives me nuts as it seems like such old news.

Cheers,
Steve

Right on. Genetics or no genetics...doesn't matter. They're not infringing on anyone else's rights by being gay.

steve_inhiding

It's also worth keeping in mind that from a darwinian sense, homosexuality should have died out millenia (sp?) ago. This is surely evidence of environmental factoring rather than genetic.

Cheers,
Steve

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I think the test results were a bit buggy...

Eliot Rosewater

steve_inhiding wrote:

No offense to anyone intended.

But who the fuck cares!! For gods sake, if you're gay you're gay!

I've many gay friends who are completely happy being who they are and have always said they were gay from the first day they could remember. If it's genes or upbringing, who really cares!! In fact, although homosexuality is against reproduction, I believe it clearly (in a utopian society) promotes acceptance. Just leave them the fuck alone!!!!

Again, sorry if I offended anyone with either language or ideas but this topic drives me nuts as it seems like such old news.

Cheers,
Steve

I think some of it may have to do with the religious right and their persecution of homosexuals. If science can prove that homosexuality isn't a "choice" and certainly not an "evil choice" then progress can be made toward true equality. At least that's the way I see it.

Eliot Rosewater

halv wrote:

When will they start doing studies to see what makes me straight? Of course they never will because hetero is perceived as "normal" by these people.
Ridiculous studies and a huge waste of resources, time and money.

I think it's fair to call heterosexuality "normal" based on the numbers and based on the logic of needed to reproduce to keep the species alive. But I don't think there's anything wrong at all with being something other than "normal." I'm just saying it kinda makes sense to study the minority to see why they're different.

steve_inhiding

I'd just like to clarify my initial rant.

I have no problems with people studying homosexuality. In fact I encourage it and am fasinated by it. By finding it's root we could perhaps finds roots to all sorts of important things.

I just find it intolerable when people view homosexuality as abnormal or unatural. I hope people see that I'm not as crazy as I perhaps first sounded, just passionate about this topic.

Cheers,
Steve

melodious

great fruit here...

(renewing my subscription to this thread)

thanks.

NoK

steve_inhiding wrote:

It's also worth keeping in mind that from a darwinian sense, homosexuality should have died out millenia (sp?) ago. This is surely evidence of environmental factoring rather than genetic.

Cheers,
Steve

First, many homosexual males cover up their true sexual preferences and have families and children in fear of persecution.

Second, genetics is more complex than "Parent" passes on to "Child". Consider homosexuality as a recessive trait in humans where one requires the two recessive alleles to be a homosexual. If you have the dominant allele and a recessive you are only a heterosexual carrier. Make sense?

steve_inhiding

NoK wrote:

First, many homosexual males cover up their true sexual preferences and have families and children in fear of persecution.

Second, genetics is more complex than "Parent" passes on to "Child". Consider homosexuality as a recessive trait in humans where one requires the two recessive alleles to be a homosexual. If you have the dominant allele and a recessive you are only a heterosexual carrier. Make sense?

Yeah, but this would surely die out very quickly, no? I see what you mean, but I can't see the reasons you've given being responsible soley for the existance of homsexuality throughout the existance of humans. In fact, I highly doubt there could be a genetic cause.

Personally, I feel that homosexuality it strongly environmental. If you believe in evolution, surely it must be.

ps. It's true I have limited understanding of genetics, but it just doesn't make sense to me any other way

pps. and I am related to Dawin himself!!!

RolandTD20Kdrummer

I wonder if somehow this will all lead to discovering a penis that can fly.

NoK

steve_inhiding wrote:

Yeah, but this would surely die out very quickly, no? I see what you mean, but I can't see the reasons you've given being responsible soley for the existance of homsexuality throughout the existance of humans. In fact, I highly doubt there could be a genetic cause.

Personally, I feel that homosexuality it strongly environmental. If you believe in evolution, surely it must be.

ps. It's true I have limited understanding of genetics, but it just doesn't make sense to me any other way

pps. and I am related to Dawin himself!!!

No it wouldn't die out at all. There are many recessive traits still circulating between us till this day.

You are entitled to your own view and its true social environment can play a big role in the outcome but there is no doubt genetics are involved.

It all leads back to the nature vs nurture argument. To rule out nature completely is as bad as ruling out nurture completely.

steve_inhiding

NoK wrote:

It all leads back to the nature vs nurture argument. To rule out nature completely is as bad as ruling out nurture completely.

Absolutely agree.

I hate it when I agree like this as it really snuffs out an argument

Perhaps it's an environmental factor that triggers a recessive gene. Or perhaps the "hetrosexual gene" is so dominant that there are few cases where it is overrided.

I still believe that environment plays a massive part in ones sexual orientation and that more importantly, it doens't make a f*cking difference as to whether you are a good person or not. (I know you weren't arguing for or against that!)

Still the research et al is fascinating to me and something definately worth mankinds' while