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Islam is so peaceful...

jsandjsand Posts: 646
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
Another wonderful "honor" killing - this time a 6-year old is killed:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/20/nhonour20.xml

Two men murdered a six-year-old girl by setting fire to her house to warn her brother off a relationship he was having, a court heard yesterday.



Proceed with the typical apologist nonsense.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    I hope those men are held accountable...here is some more senseless violence for you:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/wtae/20060920/lo_wtae/9896050;_ylt=AgY8UO74U.y07lDJ8md9G8jp5hsC;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

    my point: senseless violence happens...it happens with reason and without...but , sadly, it happens...no excuse makes it ok...be it religion, drugs, mental illness, or just plain evil...

    question: do you think all those who follow Islam are violent murderers....? please note the word "all"...
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    Who's gonna apologize these men? The problem is not islam, the problem is the men and what they think. The whole honour thing is more cultural than religious anyway. If some people set fire to houses to warn others off "bad relationships" well lock them up! They're criminal and more than a bit out of touch.

    (edit) as for islam being peaceful, I guess that would depend on the circumstances. Sitting in a quiet room reading the holy book sounds and looks peaceful to me. ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    inmytree wrote:
    I hope those men are held accountable...here is some more senseless violence for you:

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/wtae/20060920/lo_wtae/9896050;_ylt=AgY8UO74U.y07lDJ8md9G8jp5hsC;_ylu=X3oDMTA5aHJvMDdwBHNlYwN5bmNhdA--

    my point: senseless violence happens...it happens with reason and without...but , sadly, it happens...no excuse makes it ok...be it religion, drugs, mental illness, or just plain evil...

    question: do you think all those who follow Islam are violent murderers....? please note the word "all"...

    How does the incident you posted have any comparison? "Honor killings" are committed in the name of Islam. The incident I cite is not isolated -there's a pattern here.

    To answer your question, I do not think that all those who follow Islam are violent. I do think that all those who stringently adhere to the Quaran - fundamentalists - have a very high likelihood to become radicalized and commit violent acts.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    jsand wrote:
    How does the incident you posted have any comparison? "Honor killings" are committed in the name of Islam. The incident I cite is not isolated -there's a pattern here.
    The relevance is crazy people doing crazy shit, while you seem stuck on the excuse they used.
    To answer your question, I do not think that all those who follow Islam are violent. I do think that all those who stringently adhere to the Quaran - fundamentalists - have a very high likelihood to become radicalized and commit violent acts.
    But boy, you dont say that very often. Or your definition of fundamentalist islam goes far beyond what I would say. I will agree that fundamentalism is dangerous.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    jsand wrote:
    How does the incident you posted have any comparison? "Honor killings" are committed in the name of Islam. The incident I cite is not isolated -there's a pattern here.

    To answer your question, I do not think that all those who follow Islam are violent. I do think that all those who stringently adhere to the Quaran - fundamentalists - have a very high likelihood to become radicalized and commit violent acts.


    This specific killing and the article you quoted doesnt even mention Islam... how can you say this was done in the name of Islam... you dont know the background well enough!!
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    OutOfBreath wrote:
    I will agree that fundamentalism is dangerous.

    Peace
    Dan

    If you agree with me on that, then why view this reprehensible incident as a mere "criminal" act? It goes beyond that. Violent reactions to relationships, violent reactions to the Pope's words, violent reactions to cartoons...There's a pattern. Viewing it as merely criminal, or as just a few crazy people, doesn't get to the heart of the matter. Do you realize that the protests against the Pope and the cartoons began on Fridays? That's when Mosque lets out. This hatred is being ingrained - it's taught by clerics.
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    dunkman1974 wrote:
    This specific killing and the article you quoted doesnt even mention Islam... how can you say this was done in the name of Islam... you dont know the background well enough!!

    Honor killing is based on Islam - although it is not exclusive to it. Look at the guys' names and do the math.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    jsand wrote:
    How does the incident you posted have any comparison? "Honor killings" are committed in the name of Islam. The incident I cite is not isolated -there's a pattern here.

    um, I was looking at the larger picture of senseless violence, here is what I said for reference:
    me wrote:
    my point: senseless violence happens...it happens with reason and without...but , sadly, it happens...no excuse makes it ok...be it religion, drugs, mental illness, or just plain evil...

    I'm unsure how else to say it....
    jsand wrote:
    To answer your question, I do not think that all those who follow Islam are violent. I do think that all those who stringently adhere to the Quaran - fundamentalists - have a very high likelihood to become radicalized and commit violent acts.

    I agree with you for once....what do you suggest...? how should it be addressed...? should the religion of islam be banned..? we can sit here all day and point out senseless act of violence based on every reason under the sun, including religion....but at the end of the day, it's still happening....I happen to think until open dialog begins on all sides, this sort of thing will continue...refusing to speak to each other adds to the problem, rather that helping....
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    jsand wrote:
    Honor killing is based on Islam. No need for any more background.

    from wikipedia "... In Europe, honor killings have mostly been reported within some Muslim and Sikh communities"

    how do you know these people werent Sikh's???

    and the holocaust was based opon ideas by Nazis... doesnt mean every German person was ecstatic about it does it!
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    inmytree wrote:
    I happen to think until open dialog begins on all sides, this sort of thing will continue...refusing to speak to each other adds to the problem, rather that helping....

    While I would prefer dialogue, I don't see that happening. This fundamentalist ideology does not permit compromise.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    jsand wrote:
    Honor killing is based on Islam - although it is not exclusive to it. Look at the guys' names and do the math.


    nice edit there ;)

    ok..i'l check the names.... oh wait... why should I? just because they sound 'foreign' then they must be Muslims... how do you know they are not Sikhs, or Hindus? Honor killing happens in these religions also?
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    jsand wrote:
    Look at the guys' names and do the math.


    Hussain Ahmed, a 26-year-old dentist, and Daryll Tuzzio,


    ok Hussain Ahmed sounds Pakistani or whatever.. so he could be a follower of many religions with that name and background.... and wow oh wow Clueso... the other guy is called Daryll Tuzzio ... a half English half Italian name!!! hardly conclusive proof is it?
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    The real appauling thing is that this just brings down a modern society and takes one big step back in the "assimilate" department.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • lalalalaaaaaaaalalalalaaaaaaaa Posts: 2,445
    You don't think that all those who follow Islam are violent, but the title of your thread is "Islam is so peaceful", which is obviously sarcasm for "Islam is violent". It's an incorrect generalization, simple as that. I could post the story about John Salvi shooting up an abortion clinic and say "Christianity is so peaceful", and it'd be exactly analogous to what you just did. And both threads would have exactly the same value: ZERO.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    jsand wrote:
    If you agree with me on that, then why view this reprehensible incident as a mere "criminal" act? It goes beyond that.
    No it doesn't. And it IS criminal. Just as murders and vandalism generally are.
    Violent reactions to relationships, violent reactions to the Pope's words, violent reactions to cartoons...There's a pattern.
    It can certainly be construed that way if you base your world on the sensationalist press.
    Viewing it as merely criminal, or as just a few crazy people, doesn't get to the heart of the matter.
    No, most criminals have motives, grudges, past history, unique circumstances and so on surrounding their crimes, especially violent ones.
    Do you realize that the protests against the Pope and the cartoons began on Fridays? That's when Mosque lets out. This hatred is being ingrained - it's taught by clerics.
    Some probably. I heard somewhere that the "widespread" nature of the rioting to the pope's comments were a bit overblown. But no matter how many and where, you are bound to hear it on the evening news.

    By the way, talking of "honour killings" I recently read some interesting articles concerning how you can compare "honour killings" with "family tragedies" (typically, the husband killing his family, and then himself) and asked why this wasn't spoken of in the same way. That is also violence towards women, most often, even given the difference that th eperpetrator also offs himself. How widespread is this phenomenon? Apart from shock articles, and some tragic incidences the last decade it seems to be very much limited. We have murders all the time. Why must we look at islam when a muslim does the killing? That is my question. That these particular people have a pretty messed up version of the world, and what must be done in regards to "offenses", sure. Is it islam's fault? No. Is there some cultural backdrop to this? Maybe. But even so, they ARE extreme even for that.

    And interestingly, noone in the article talks of islam. That's because the honour thing is not of islam, but prevalent in countries who also happen to be muslim. And, they may occur in our own societies, although we dont label them as such.

    You are way too quick to go at the throat of islam or muslims every chance you get. And if, in a case, something somewhere is/is related to muslims/islam, you never fail to highlight it ahead of anything else that might be of importance.

    So, to sum up:
    Honour killings is not of Islam
    Honour killing as phenomenon is very overrated
    Honour killings are connected to culture first and foremost. Just like circumcitions.
    Honour killings occurs in our societies too. Only labelled jealousy or "family tragedy" instead.

    Tragic case. Lock them up good for arson and murder. And schedule them a psychiatrist while you're at it.

    In conlusion, yes fundamentalism is dangerous, and I will oppose it at any turn. At the same time, it is important to see and think clearly what is and is not about or of fundamentalism, and avoid gross mis-labelling that affects other non-fundamentalists. And these days hate for muslims sits way too loose and with little or no justification apart from a big sensationalist headline. Rabid anti-fundamentalism can be a fundamentalism in itself.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    jsand wrote:
    While I would prefer dialogue, I don't see that happening. This fundamentalist ideology does not permit compromise.

    "I don't see that happening" and then you go on to blame "fundanmentalist ideology"....you see, that's the problem....I'd be willing to bet that those on the other side are saying the same thing....

    I think there is no harm in reaching out to the other side...but until that happens, nothing will change...

    I asked: what do you suggest...? how should it be addressed...? should the religion of islam be banned..?

    I'm curious as to your thoughts....
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    wikipedia wrote:
    Honor killing as a cultural practice or religious practice
    Sharif Kanaana, professor of anthropology at Birzeit University states that honor killing is:

    A complicated issue that cuts deep into the history of Arab society... What the men of the family, clan, or tribe seek control of in a patrilineal society is reproductive power. Women for the tribe were considered a factory for making men. The honor killing is not a means to control sexual power or behavior. What's behind it is the issue of fertility, or reproductive power.
    An Amnesty International statement adds:

    The mere perception that a woman has contravened the code of sexual behavior damages honor. The regime of honor is unforgiving: women on whom suspicion has fallen are not given an opportunity to defend themselves, and family members have no socially acceptable alternative but to remove the stain on their honor by attacking the woman. [16]
    [edit]
    In countries with Islamic law
    Honor killings are stereotypically seen by some as an (exclusively) Islamic phenomenon. [17] There is no specific mention of honor killing in the Qur'an or Hadiths. An honor killing, in Islamic definitions, refers specifically to extra-legal punishment by the family against the woman, and is technically forbidden by the Sharia (Islamic law). Some Islamic religious authorities and Muslims, disagree with extra-legal punishments such as honor killing and prohibit it, since they consider the practice to be a cultural issue. [18] They believe that since certain pre-Islamic cultures have influence over a number of Muslims, murderers of females use Islam to justify honor killing, even though there is no support for the act in the religion itself. However, honor killings cannot always be punished according to many interpretations of Islamic law, as murders are a type of "qisas" ("retaliation") crime. This means that the deceased's family should be offered the choice of capital punishment or "diya" ("blood money") and no execution can take place without them opting for death. Because a relative(s) is responsible for the honor killing, it is unlikely that the deceased's family will punish one of their own for the crime. [19]

    Traditional interpretations of Islamic law (or Sharia) prescribe severe punishments for zina, or extramarital sex, by both men and women. This is not a new practice; it has been around since ancient times and has been practiced by other religions and cultures as well. Premarital sex could be punished by up to 100 lashes, while adultery is punishable by the death penalty i.e. stoning. The act of sexual penetration must, however, be attested by at least four male Muslim witnesses of good character, the accused has a right to testify in court, the suspect's word or testimony is required to hold the most weight in the eyes of the judge(s), punishments are reserved to the legal authorities and the law states that false accusations are to be punished severely. [20] [21] The former regulations also make some Muslims believe (whether or not they regard pre and extramarital sex as sinful), that the process' goal was to eventually abolish the physical penalties relating to acts of fornication and adultery, that were already present within many societies around the world when Islamic teachings first arose. According to this view, the principles are so rigorous in their search for evidence, that they create the near impossibility of being able to reach a verdict that goes against the suspect in any manner. [22]

    The execution of the Saudi Arabian princess Misha'al is an example of an honor killing, in which the execution did not follow any Islamic religious court proceeding, but was ordered directly by her grandfather.

    Interpretations of these rules vary. Some Arabs regard it as their right under both tradition and Sharia (by the process of urf), though this contradicts the views of many Islamic scholars (fuqaha). Ayatollah Ali Khamenei of Iran has condemned the practice as "un-Islamic", though punishment under Iranian law remains lenient. In certain (Sufi influenced) Muslim regions like Indonesia, which has the largest Muslim population in the world, honor killings are little known, as also in parts of West Africa with majority-Muslim populations and many other Muslim countries. [23] According to Sheikh Atiyyah Saqr, former head of the al-Azhar University Fatwa Committee (one of the oldest and most prestigious in the Muslim world):

    Like all other religions, Islam strictly prohibits murder and killing without legal justification. Allah, Most High, says, “Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.” (An-Nisa’: 93) The so-called “honor killing” is based on ignorance and disregard of morals and laws, which cannot be abolished except by disciplinary punishments. [24]
    This opinion makes a clear distinction between "hudud" crimes, which have specified legal penalty in Islamic law, and "ta`zir" offenses, which can have a discretionary punishment decided by the judge. Honor killings are ta'zir crimes, not hudud ones meaning that any punishment is culturally defined.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honour_killing

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Scratchin a LetterScratchin a Letter Posts: 2,303
    jsand wrote:
    Another wonderful "honor" killing - this time a 6-year old is killed:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/20/nhonour20.xml

    Two men murdered a six-year-old girl by setting fire to her house to warn her brother off a relationship he was having, a court heard yesterday.



    Proceed with the typical apologist nonsense.
    This thread is ridiculous. honour killings happen within many religions and sects, there is no need to stir up more of your race-hate and bigotry. "look at the names and do the math"? oh they must be muslim because they have an unusual name.
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    inmytree wrote:
    "I don't see that happening" and then you go on to blame "fundanmentalist ideology"....you see, that's the problem....I'd be willing to bet that those on the other side are saying the same thing....

    I think there is no harm in reaching out to the other side...but until that happens, nothing will change...

    I asked: what do you suggest...? how should it be addressed...? should the religion of islam be banned..?

    I'm curious as to your thoughts....

    I disagree with your opinion that there is no harm in reaching out to the other side. In my opinion, reaching out to fundamentalists, who believe that those who do not adhere to Islam are "infidels," emboldens them further. They perceive this as weakness. It is a slippery slope.

    I do not think the religion of Islam should be banned. However, I don't think these radicals should be coddled, either. To be honest, I don't know what the solution is, other than moderates making a real concerted effort to control what is going on. Groups like CAIR (the counsel on american islamic relations) claim to be moderate, but do not condemn the actions of those who commit violence in the name of Islam. Instead, CAIR and other such groups reverse the scenario and claim that the west is "Islamophobic." HNow about addressing the cause of that phobia by speaking out against terrorism, without any hedging? That would be a start.
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    Scratchin a Letter wrote:
    This thread is ridiculous. honour killings happen within many religions and sects, there is no need to stir up more of your race-hate and bigotry. "look at the names and do the math"? oh they must be muslim because they have an unusual name.

    Oh, please. My "race-hate and bigotry"?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Andrea Yeats drowned her kids in her bathtub because she wanted them to be with God and Jesus. Is than an indictment on the whole of Christianity?
    NO. All it says is that there are nuts out there that use religion as an excuse for their insanity. All it proves is that there are nuts out there.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • jsandjsand Posts: 646
    Cosmo wrote:
    Andrea Yeats drowned her kids in her bathtub because she wanted them to be with God and Jesus. Is than an indictment on the whole of Christianity?
    NO. All it says is that there are nuts out there that use religion as an excuse for their insanity. All it proves is that there are nuts out there.

    If there were thousands of Andrea Yeats-like incidents happening around the world, would you think differently? People on this board love to counter the argument that there is a problem in Islam by posting about an isolated incident, such as this one. If you show me that thousands of Christians are doing the same thing, then you have a point.
  • rebornFixerrebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    These revenge killings ... Barbaric behavior indeed. I am not sure if the source is something about Middle Eastern culture in general (which of course is influenced by Islam), or something specific to Islam itself. Islam may be used as a justification for a culturally-sanctioned practice that has other roots. Then again, I don't doubt that Islam is one of the factors that serves to keep these cultures extremely chauvinist.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    jsand wrote:
    If there were thousands of Andrea Yeats-like incidents happening around the world, would you think differently? People on this board love to counter the argument that there is a problem in Islam by posting about an isolated incident, such as this one. If you show me that thousands of Christians are doing the same thing, then you have a point.
    ...
    That is not my point. My point is that these people are insane and neither one of them has anything to do with religion.
    You are the one that is saying that since these men did this... and since they are Muslim... then, all of Islam is like this.
    If you follow YOUR logic... then the same would apply to Andrea Yeates.
    ...
    My point is that neither is true and you are incorrect in your assessment.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • darkcrowdarkcrow Posts: 1,102
    this is a poor poor attempt at an example... honour killings are cultural not religious. they are not exclusive to islam, hindus and tamils do it to, and i would know as i am indian (although born in britian etc).
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  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    jsand wrote:
    If there were thousands of Andrea Yeats-like incidents happening around the world, would you think differently? People on this board love to counter the argument that there is a problem in Islam by posting about an isolated incident, such as this one. If you show me that thousands of Christians are doing the same thing, then you have a point.

    According to the wikipedia-thingy I referenced, there are perhaps 5000 a year that can be based in honour-killing (That is conjecture and worst-case, not fact). And, a lot of it occurs elsewhere than in islamic countries. India, as has been mentioned have a dark history on such things including also widow-burning and so on. Also, how many of the husbands who murder their wives in "western" societies can be accused and suspected of the same?

    You have failed to provide evidence of the muslim nature of this, hence your starting accusation (headline) is without merit. If you wanna attack middle-eastern/indian macho culture and an age-old patriarchy, then go ahead. But the issue isn't about islam. It's about honour which is culturally based and stands strong in some parts of the world still.

    You often seem to equate muslims/arabs/middle eastern culture when they are seperate entities and dont always coincide. And dont be surprised if you are accused of race-hate, as your posts are invariably about one thing and one thing only. You know what I mean. If you really have a balanced view, you fail consistently to show it. As here, where islam is nowhere at the forefront of the issue, but you parade it as the main reason behind anyway.

    And even if you think there's a difference of numbers, you dont answer the question whether people killing their kids for god is worthy of a look on christianity, which would be consistent with your accusation against islam here.

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    jsand wrote:
    Another wonderful "honor" killing - this time a 6-year old is killed:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/20/nhonour20.xml

    Two men murdered a six-year-old girl by setting fire to her house to warn her brother off a relationship he was having, a court heard yesterday.



    Proceed with the typical apologist nonsense.

    Shall we post the crimes in the Unites States to show what kind of person you are?

    KIDNAP GIRL KEPT IN BUNKER FOR 10 DAYS
  • CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
    Wait a minute, you still don't have any proof that these guys were Muslims, other than the argument "look at their names"... and you're still making excuses. Next time you choose to generalise an entire religion and its people on a few incidents make sure it's actually about that religion.
    Racism isn't the right word... but it's the first that comes to mind.
    THANK YOU, LOSTDAWG!


    naděje umírá poslední
  • dunkmandunkman Posts: 19,646
    Collin wrote:
    Wait a minute, you still don't have any proof that these guys were Muslims, other than the argument "look at their names"... and you're still making excuses. Next time you choose to generalise an entire religion and its people on a few incidents make sure it's actually about that religion.
    Racism isn't the right word... but it's the first that comes to mind.


    as it was me he directed the "look at the names and do the math" comment at... i'm slightly annoyed he hasnt responded to it... surely debating means you are able to put your hands up and say "you know what.. i got it wrong"

    One of the guys names was of Asian origin but the other guys name was English/Italian... and so i have done the maths and come to the conclusion that the guys were fucking nutters... their religion didnt enter the equation
    oh scary... 40000 morbidly obese christians wearing fanny packs invading europe is probably the least scariest thing since I watched an edited version of The Care Bears movie in an extremely brightly lit cinema.
  • OpenOpen Posts: 792
    jsand wrote:
    Another wonderful "honor" killing - this time a 6-year old is killed:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/09/20/nhonour20.xml

    Two men murdered a six-year-old girl by setting fire to her house to warn her brother off a relationship he was having, a court heard yesterday.



    Proceed with the typical apologist nonsense.

    Christianity is so peaceful...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrea_Yates


    I feel really sorry for you.
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