Galloway = stupid terror apologist

rebornFixer

even flow? wrote:

You did make it to the bottom of the cartoon, no? A little deeper then Jews buying weapons and using them on civilians.

Israel uses weapons on civilians, and its a total shitstorm. Much of the rest of the world does it, and you can hear the crickets.

even flow?

reborncareerist wrote:

Israel uses weapons on civilians, and its a total shitstorm. Much of the rest of the world does it, and you can hear the crickets.

Skip the Israel rhetoric and get to the part of the money.

OutOfBreath

reborncareerist wrote:

Israel uses weapons on civilians, and its a total shitstorm. Much of the rest of the world does it, and you can hear the crickets.

You know that's the game in town. Exchange Israel for Iraq, and weapons with WMDs, it's basically the same. Just had to point out that.

Otherwise Israel has become a conflict with a lot of attention and coverage. Too bad for Israel that can't do anything as bad as others get away with without a shitstorm. They can whine about that if they want, doesn't mean that what they at times do is acceptable. Others being worse is always a bad defense, is it implies you dont really have one.

That being said, I feel some of the Israel critics around here go a bit too much over the top with their accusations and sentiments.

Peace
Dan

rebornFixer

OutOfBreath wrote:

You know that's the game in town. Exchange Israel for Iraq, and weapons with WMDs, it's basically the same. Just had to point out that.

Otherwise Israel has become a conflict with a lot of attention and coverage. Too bad for Israel that can't do anything as bad as others get away with without a shitstorm. They can whine about that if they want, doesn't mean that what they at times do is acceptable. Others being worse is always a bad defense, is it implies you dont really have one.

That being said, I feel some of the Israel critics around here go a bit too much over the top with their accusations and sentiments.

Peace
Dan

Yes, I know that others doing the same or worse is a bad defense. I am not justifying the bombing of Lebanon, I think that the bombing was about the worst thing the Israelis have done since the state's inception.

And yes evenflow?, I know ... Money is obviously an issue.

FinsburyParkCarrots

reborncareerist wrote:

How so?
For someone so obsessed with language usage, you sure are hiding behind it now.

They united the Arab world against Israel, and they're still standing. Whereas the Israeli and Lebanese governments are mortally weakened. That plain enough for you?

http://www.invbiznews.com/wordpress/?p=424

rebornFixer

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

They united the Arab world against Israel, and they're still standing. Whereas the Israeli and Lebanese governments are mortally weakened. That plain enough for you?

http://www.invbiznews.com/wordpress/?p=424

Still standing is not the standard way to define victory in military terms, although I do like this new approach ... You cannot ever lose a war if you redefine the terms of victory.


As for your first point ... Hmm. I would counter that a) the Arab world has long been united against Israel, well before this war started and b) certain Arab governments still have diplomatic ties with Israel, despite what happened in Lebanon. Olmert's government may be mortally weakened, but Israel as a whole is not.

FinsburyParkCarrots

reborncareerist wrote:

Still standing is not the standard way to define victory in military terms, although I do like this new approach ... You cannot ever lose a war if you redefine the terms of victory.


As for your first point ... Hmm. I would counter that a) the Arab world has long been united against Israel, well before this war started and b) certain Arab governments still have diplomatic ties with Israel, despite what happened in Lebanon. Olmert's government may be mortally weakened, but Israel as a whole is not.

For an army, funded by the world's biggest superpower, not to be able to wipe out a little gaggle of hoodlums, is a major defeat. To say, "we've wiped out two thirds of them", when it's obvious that this isn't the case and that people are queuing up to join, well, if that's not a defeat, I don't know what is. When the bombardment from the other side doesn't deplete appreciably, that's a defeat. Politically, it's a defeat, too.

My first point really considers the conflict as going on for far longer than this recent set of events. Decades.

Israel will never be weakened. It's got hundreds of US-supplied nukes. But yes, its government has taken a whupping.

rebornFixer

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

For an army, funded by the world's biggest superpower, not to be able to wipe out a little gaggle of hoodlums, is a major defeat. To say, "we've wiped out two thirds of them", when it's obvious that this isn't the case and that people are queuing up to join, well, if that's not a defeat, I don't know what is. When the bombardment from the other side doesn't deplete appreciably, that's a defeat. Politically, it's a defeat, too.

My first point really considers the conflict as going on for far longer than this recent set of events. Decades.

Israel will never be weakened. It's got hundreds of US-supplied nukes. But yes, its government has taken a whupping.

Well, they did wipe out several hundred for sure ... These fighters are easily replaced, granted. "Little gaggle of hoodlums" is unfortunately not an accurate assessment. It it was, the war would have been over in a week.
If you want to define defeat as not realizing the goal of completely destroying Hezbollah, then yes, Israel lost. Setting this as the goal probably set the stage for defeat before the war even began, however. If the goal has been set as giving Hezbollah a spanking, followed by a UN deployment on the border, then they could have declared a victory of sorts.

jsand

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

a little gaggle of hoodlums

That statement is on par with the Palestinian "resistance" being described as nothing more than throwing a few rocks.

Ridiculous.

FinsburyParkCarrots

You're missing the irony again. Second time in the thread.

I'm not saying that they're a gaggle of hoodlums myself, or akin to a few street protestors throwing rocks. I accept reports of the international funding Hizbollah is said to receive, and its level of paramilitary and political organisation. I'm saying that with a vastly disproportionate degree of military power, and given the alleged superiority of MOSSAD intelligence, the Israeli government seemed to venture into the conflict, believing that a wholesale strike against the southern Lebanese infrastructure would inevitably dwarf resistance, regardless of whether Hizbollah were using the civilian population as shields. The logic of such an attack was, well, it's unfortunate and immoral that Hizbollah are hiding behind civilians, but our objective is to deplete Hizbollah and that's that. This sort of attitude underestimated the extent of Hizbollah power and resistance. The war was lost on an assertion that, if as much damage was done before any ceasefire, Hizbollah resistance would have been appreciably weakened. But it's likely it's strengthened.

Okay, Galloway's rhetoric is goading and gloating, to many people, regardless of whether they are pro-Zionist or a "supporter", to use a horrible word, of neither side in the combat. Many people might find his talk distasteful, and driven by a need for sensationalist publicity. However, he represents a voice that raises points about who really did benefit from the war. In terms of who makes the money to rebuild southern Lebanon, it's possible Hizbollah will reap the rewards there. It's a sad and inevitable outcome - or more likely, a pretext - of any conflict, that somebody benefits monetarily.

Commy

FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:

I take it, you all saw this, a few weeks back:

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=9071731896689197790&q=george+galloway

nice link Fins.


"it is false to say that most people think Hizbollah is a terrorist group, and in fact more accurate to say that most people think Israel is a terrorist state."

I particularly like that line..