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MT Book Club December 2nd

Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
edited October 2005 in A Moving Train
Anyone interested in discussing:

Arc of Justice
A Saga of Race, Civil Rights, and Murder in the Jazz Age
by Kevin Boyle
ISBN: 0-8050-7933-5

http://www.henryholt.com/searchnn.htm

in this forum on December 2nd? I'm willing to discuss Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States : 1492-Present if more people are interested in that as a book club discussion. I hope that we could have an active political book club discussion in this forum, as it seems that many people here read a lot. In the poetry forum there is another book club which may read the same titles over time, but has so far focused on fiction. Anyone up for a MT Book Club?
There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
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Comments

  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    Bibliobella wrote:
    Anyone interested in discussing:

    Arc of Justice
    A Saga of Race, Civil Rights, and Murder in the Jazz Age
    by Kevin Boyle
    ISBN: 0-8050-7933-5

    http://www.henryholt.com/searchnn.htm

    in this forum on December 2nd? I'm willing to discuss Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States : 1492-Present if more people are interested in that as a book club discussion. I hope that we could have an active political book club discussion in this forum, as it seems that many people here read a lot. In the poetry forum there is another book club which may read the same titles over time, but has so far focused on fiction. Anyone up for a MT Book Club?

    I would be, if the book topics weren't restricted to leftist platforms.

    But, I highly doubt anyone in here would be up for reading someone like Milton Friedman.
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    saveuplife wrote:
    I would be, if the book topics weren't restricted to leftist platforms.

    But, I highly doubt anyone in here would be up for reading someone like Milton Friedman.
    I'd be happy to read something from the right, but I've given Friedman a shot in the past and he put me straight to sleep. Nothing against him, economics just isn't my thing.

    If we had a group of people that participated on a regular basis, I'm sure we'd be reading books from a variety of perspectives.

    Bibliobella, I think this is a good idea, I'm in :)
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    saveuplife wrote:
    I would be, if the book topics weren't restricted to leftist platforms.

    But, I highly doubt anyone in here would be up for reading someone like Milton Friedman.


    Economics and more economics with you, eh? ;)

    All in good humour my man.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Sure, why not. I'm in
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,445
    I'll wait for the movie.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    saveuplife wrote:
    I would be, if the book topics weren't restricted to leftist platforms.

    But, I highly doubt anyone in here would be up for reading someone like Milton Friedman.
    The first title won the National Book Award. I thought it would be a good start since it looks like many people think it's well written. It has very good reviews from the New York Times to Salon.com. The second seems to be one that many people on this board at least have heard about. Political differences could make for a fast paced book club discussion. I must admit, I don't usually discuss political issues with people who have different views than me, so this could be a learning opportunity . . . or a stomach ache. I tried to read Amartya Sen's books because he won the Nobel Prize in Economics, but I couldn't understand them. So is Arc of Justice ok?
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • daystar143daystar143 Posts: 367
    I'm in if you all will approve of a somewhat moderate lefty. (That ought to be confusing).
    The Daystar

    "But --you say that Dreams have no power here? Tell me, Lucifer Morningstar...Ask yourselves, all of you...What power would hell have if those here imprisoned were not able to Dream of Heaven?" Dream speaking to Lucifer as written by Neil Gaiman.
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    Unless someone has read "Arc of Justice" and is ready to lead the discussion December 2nd, I'm going to postpone this discussion until January 6th. This is the first Friday in January. I've started the book. So far it looks like the author can write suspense. It's a true story.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • toronado10toronado10 Posts: 239
    Bibliobella wrote:
    Unless someone has read "Arc of Justice" and is ready to lead the discussion December 2nd, I'm going to postpone this discussion until January 6th. This is the first Friday in January. I've started the book. So far it looks like the author can write suspense. It's a true story.

    why not discuss chapters of the book instead of the whole book?
    Take time to see the sky,
    Find shapes in the clouds.
    Hear the murmur of the wind
    and touch the cool water.
    Walk softly,
    we are intruders,
    tolerated briefly
    In an infinite universe.
  • OutOfBreathOutOfBreath Posts: 1,804
    saveuplife wrote:
    I would be, if the book topics weren't restricted to leftist platforms.

    But, I highly doubt anyone in here would be up for reading someone like Milton Friedman.

    Milton "the devil" Friedman? No way! ;)

    Peace
    Dan
    "YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death

    "Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    toronado10 wrote:
    why not discuss chapters of the book instead of the whole book?
    If you are willing to lead the discussion, by all means go ahead. I've only been to book clubs where an entire book is discussed. However, discussing a chapter at a time may be better for message boards. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a better idea, actually. Anyone else have thoughts on this?
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Bibliobella wrote:
    Anyone interested in discussing:

    Arc of Justice
    A Saga of Race, Civil Rights, and Murder in the Jazz Age
    by Kevin Boyle
    ISBN: 0-8050-7933-5

    http://www.henryholt.com/searchnn.htm

    in this forum on December 2nd? I'm willing to discuss Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States : 1492-Present if more people are interested in that as a book club discussion. I hope that we could have an active political book club discussion in this forum, as it seems that many people here read a lot. In the poetry forum there is another book club which may read the same titles over time, but has so far focused on fiction. Anyone up for a MT Book Club?


    i would love to discuss anything Zinn... anytime...anywhere :)
  • TweenerTweener Posts: 2
    I'm already in the middle of Chomsky's Hegemy or Survival....
    I'd be interested in doing this after I"m finished that one though. It sounds like a good idea, particularly if we could read books from both sides of the political spectrum.
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    December 2nd is on then - the discussion will focus on the Prologue and Chapter 1 which ends on page 43. See you then.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Just ordered the book, so I'll be there.

    Btw, it's only $10.20 at Amazon.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    http://www.nytimes.com/ref/readersopinions/reading-group-picks.html

    If you register there's a book discussion that happened, and a review of the book.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    First let's focus on the writing. I think Kevin Boyle does a very good job of creating a mood. Just by knowing the number of KKK in Detroit at the time, Ossian's personal experiences and witnessing of violence we get a feel for what a scary time this must be for Ossian and his family. However, Gladys' attitude is just. They have every right to live in a nice home that they can afford as anyone else.

    It's similar to "The Lovely Bones" in that the main point of violence of the story happens quickly, and we have the rest of the book for resolution. It is not designed so that half the book is build up to the main point of violence of the story. What do you think of the writing so far?
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • soulsingingsoulsinging Posts: 13,202
    i dont have the book but i'll look into picking it up. i just wanted to throw in the fact that this guy teaches at my alma mater... this book was all over campus news when it was released and everyone was pretty excited to see it gaining such national attention. i kinda wish id taken a class with him.
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    soulsinging wrote:
    i dont have the book but i'll look into picking it up. i just wanted to throw in the fact that this guy teaches at my alma mater... this book was all over campus news when it was released and everyone was pretty excited to see it gaining such national attention. i kinda wish id taken a class with him.
    Did you hear positive or negative reviews on your campus? Did the ones who discussed the book think they learned something, and that the writing was on target or that the author was full of fluff?
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ms. Haiku wrote:
    First let's focus on the writing. I think Kevin Boyle does a very good job of creating a mood. Just by knowing the number of KKK in Detroit at the time, Ossian's personal experiences and witnessing of violence we get a feel for what a scary time this must be for Ossian and his family. However, Gladys' attitude is just. They have every right to live in a nice home that they can afford as anyone else.

    It's similar to "The Lovely Bones" in that the main point of violence of the story happens quickly, and we have the rest of the book for resolution. It is not designed so that half the book is build up to the main point of violence of the story. What do you think of the writing so far?
    I bought the book and had planned to participate in this, but my older daughter is staying with me unexpectedly this week and I haven't had the time I thought I would to sit and read. I'll try to catch up over the weekend.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    hippiemom wrote:
    I bought the book and had planned to participate in this, but my older daughter is staying with me unexpectedly this week and I haven't had the time I thought I would to sit and read. I'll try to catch up over the weekend.
    Sounds good. It's suspenseful so it goes pretty quick, at least the first 43 pages.
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
  • hippiemomhippiemom Posts: 3,326
    Ms. Haiku wrote:
    First let's focus on the writing. I think Kevin Boyle does a very good job of creating a mood. Just by knowing the number of KKK in Detroit at the time, Ossian's personal experiences and witnessing of violence we get a feel for what a scary time this must be for Ossian and his family. However, Gladys' attitude is just. They have every right to live in a nice home that they can afford as anyone else.

    It's similar to "The Lovely Bones" in that the main point of violence of the story happens quickly, and we have the rest of the book for resolution. It is not designed so that half the book is build up to the main point of violence of the story. What do you think of the writing so far?
    The writing is quite good. I agree, Boyle does an excellent job of setting the mood. He includes a surprising degree of detail for a historical account. I haven't checked the footnotes as I'm reading, but it's clear that this is exhaustively researched.

    I'm impressed by the courage shown by Dr. Ossian and Gladys, and particularly by their friends who volunteered to help them. I'm curious to see what the justification was for the shooting. It doesn't seem as though they were in immediate danger (although it was surely a terrifying situation), and the men doing the shooting had to know what the response would be to them killing a white man.
    "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." ~ MLK, 1963
  • Ms. HaikuMs. Haiku Posts: 7,265
    Finally finished the book. I would strongly recommend it not only because it gives a look into the race relations and subsequent social implications of Detroit in the 1920s, but also because it questions what is the most important part of a legal case. Truth is not the most important part, and truth can be harrassed away. Legal knowledge is of course important, but the theatrics of the lawyers along with the media play a large role in the outcome. It is a book about civil rights for all Americans, and in particular African Americans in 1920s Detroit. There is discussion of other important civil rights cases going on in the country at that time. There is discussion of KKK and other hate related groups and what they were up to during that time. The focus in on the one trial where 11 people were tried because they defended themselves against a rock-throwing mob, and one of the mob was killed.

    Kevin Boyle is obviously impressed by how Clarence Darrow charmed the nation, and the jury in particular. The story became "gripping" once Boyle introduced Darrow into it. There was a faster flow. The entire book is great. I trusted the research, I did not feel manipulated by the author. I like how the author progressed from the incident, to Ossian's life, to Detroit politics/social issues, to the trial, with an emphasis on the personalities of the lawyers. It is well written, very well formulated. Just like I expected what happened in the 1920's, Darrow's prominence usurped the primary person of the book, Ossian Sweet. Very interesting how the change occured. However, given how "liberal" Darrow was in 1920, he was still affected by his surroundings, and he still thought of unquestioned parameters when it came to basic civil rights for African Americans. So even the "Great Defender" of 1920 who lost and won cases, would by today's standards hopefully be considered too conservative for a defender of civil rights. I'd give it a 5/5 and i don't even like to read non-fiction.

    Any other well-written historically significant non-fiction books you suggest I read? Anyone ever read When Smoke Ran Like Water? http://www.whensmokeranlikewater.com/media_coverage/reviews.htm
    There is no such thing as leftover pizza. There is now pizza and later pizza. - anonymous
    The risk I took was calculated, but man, am I bad at math - The Mincing Mockingbird
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