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Superdome!?!

ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
edited September 2006 in A Moving Train
On MNF they just said that it cost $185 million to renovate that stadium...where are our priorities again?
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  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    This is a good point...

    All the Wal Mart posts here should be replaced by NFL posts...the greediest sons of bitches in the country. Billionaires dupe the public into funding their palaces....this is not capitalism. Build it yourself...The NFL is a joke, they hike up cable rates because of their idiotic NFL channel, black out games for people that live hundreds of miles from the stadium...they can't hire competent officials, and they hire hacks to analyze the games.

    I seriously can't believe such a joke of an organization is as popular as it is.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    It's also one of the most successful even though it follows a 'huh' communist or socialist model of money sharing. You are right it should be on here just as much as Wal-Mart.
  • sonicreducersonicreducer Posts: 713
    people need their fix,... it's too bad no one is cool enough to get people fixed on something more productive than distracting high school athletes from an education.


    totally overgeneralized, but you get the picture,...
    you're a real hooker. im gonna slap you in public.
    ~Ron Burgundy
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    sonicreducer wrote:
    people need their fix,... it's too bad no one is cool enough to get people fixed on something more productive than distracting high school athletes from an education.


    totally overgeneralized, but you get the picture,...

    Yeah, that's not the point I'm making. I think sports is important for some kids...but there are obivous problems and corruption, but playing sports is a really good learning experience for some.

    in terms of the NFL, I resent the league...and I've been following it since I was five. I've decided to stop buying Bills tickets since I paid for upgrades to the stadium through taxes. My parents live 200 miles from Buffalo, but can't watch the games if they aren't sold out. blah...i have to stop otherwise I'm going to start sounding WAYYYY too much like my grandfather ;)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    ryan198 wrote:
    On MNF they just said that it cost $185 million to renovate that stadium...where are our priorities again?

    The superdome also brings in a lot of business and money to the city. So I agree it sounds bad to spend that much to fix the superdome and not concentrate on other areas of the city, but you have to keep in mind the money the superdome generates for the city, through not only football, but conventions and things of that nature
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    dg1979us wrote:
    The superdome also brings in a lot of business and money to the city. So I agree it sounds bad to spend that much to fix the superdome and not concentrate on other areas of the city, but you have to keep in mind the money the superdome generates for the city, through not only football, but conventions and things of that nature
    I have a BA in Sport Management and an MA in Sport Commerce and Culture and in every recent peer reviewed research article the city rarely, at BEST, makes any money off a stadium, particularly in the way the owners get tax cuts, public subsidies, etc. It's an extreme fallacy that a sporting stadium is a good thing for a city, especially in the recent past.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    ryan198 wrote:
    I have a BA in Sport Management and an MA in Sport Commerce and Culture and in every recent peer reviewed research article the city rarely, at BEST, makes any money off a stadium, particularly in the way the owners get tax cuts, public subsidies, etc. It's an extreme fallacy that a sporting stadium is a good thing for a city, especially in the recent past.


    Does that take into consideration the tourists who will stay in hotels, go to restaurants, go shopping etc? New Orleans was a pretty big tourist town, and the Superdome has the saints obviously, usually gets a superbowl every 5 or 6 years or so, hosts college basketball tournaments including the final 4 every few years, the sugar bowl every year. The superdome isnt your average stadium. There arent any other stadiums in the country that hold the type of sporting events like the superdome did. And I would suspect that these events bring in a lot of tourists into the city. I dont have any type of statistics Im just making a guess, but I cant see a city always wanting these types of huge events if they werent good for the city.
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    dg1979us wrote:
    Does that take into consideration the tourists who will stay in hotels, go to restaurants, go shopping etc? New Orleans was a pretty big tourist town, and the Superdome has the saints obviously, usually gets a superbowl every 5 or 6 years or so, hosts college basketball tournaments including the final 4 every few years, the sugar bowl every year. The superdome isnt your average stadium. There arent any other stadiums in the country that hold the type of sporting events like the superdome did. And I would suspect that these events bring in a lot of tourists into the city. I dont have any type of statistics Im just making a guess, but I cant see a city always wanting these types of huge events if they werent good for the city.
    You would think that it would work for the public good, that's the common belief anyway, but in reality the town doesn't really get much out of it except for a few seasonal jobs. The people who really make the money are the owners of the stadiums, the shops, etc. So, in effect, very few people make a whole bunch of money and the people who paid for it, the taxpayers, get not so much.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    ryan198 wrote:
    I have a BA in Sport Management and an MA in Sport Commerce and Culture and in every recent peer reviewed research article the city rarely, at BEST, makes any money off a stadium, particularly in the way the owners get tax cuts, public subsidies, etc. It's an extreme fallacy that a sporting stadium is a good thing for a city, especially in the recent past.

    I would be interested in reading those articles....They would give me ammunition. I can't see how the "tourist attractions" of these stadiums overcome taxpayer expense...REGRESSIVE taxes on top of it.

    I am VERY pro-capitalist, but the NFL is not capitalist. Instead, you have billionaire owners manipulating people into paying for their buisinesses. It's disgusting that cigarette and aclohol taxes go towards building these sports palaces.

    What's worse, is that they can't hire competent officials.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    ryan198 wrote:
    You would think that it would work for the public good, that's the common belief anyway, but in reality the town doesn't really get much out of it except for a few seasonal jobs. The people who really make the money are the owners of the stadiums, the shops, etc. So, in effect, very few people make a whole bunch of money and the people who paid for it, the taxpayers, get not so much.

    But the tax payers are also the local business owners and workers who benefit from the tourists and such. I certainly think you are probably right about most stadiums, but like I said, there is not another venue in the country that gets as many huge sporting events as the Superdome.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I would be interested in reading those articles....They would give me ammunition. I can't see how the "tourist attractions" of these stadiums overcome taxpayer expense...REGRESSIVE taxes on top of it.

    I am VERY pro-capitalist, but the NFL is not capitalist. Instead, you have billionaire owners manipulating people into paying for their buisinesses. It's disgusting that cigarette and aclohol taxes go towards building these sports palaces.

    What's worse, is that they can't hire competent officials.

    The superdome is used for much more than just the NFL though.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    dg1979us wrote:
    But the tax payers are also the local business owners and workers who benefit from the tourists and such. I certainly think you are probably right about most stadiums, but like I said, there is not another venue in the country that gets as many huge sporting events as the Superdome.

    I don't know about you, but I go to the Big easy for some hurricains and....*use your imagination*...not for the saints. New Orleans has plenty of other attractions that bring in the tourist dollars, and they aren't funded by taxpayers.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I don't know about you, but I go to the Big easy for some hurricains and....*use your imagination*...not for the saints. New Orleans has plenty of other attractions that bring in the tourist dollars, and they aren't funded by taxpayers.

    I dont disagree but if you dont think the final four, superbowl, Sugar bowl etc generate shit loads of tourists then your crazy.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    dg1979us wrote:
    I dont disagree but if you dont think the final four, superbowl, Sugar bowl etc generate shit loads of tourists then your crazy.

    I'm interested in seeing those articles because we can debate this allnight, but i'm interested in the facts, do taxpayers actually see a profit, or a deficit? ryan seems to know the field, and scientific research always trumps opinions :)
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    If you can get to the library or you are in college and have an online resource called Ebsco then find SportDiscuss... type in a search for camdenization or Friedman, Andrews, Silk (200x) (I believe it was in Sociology of Sport Journal) they talk about how the resurgance of Baltimore through sport/harbor renovation is just a clever trick to show that the city has revitalized even though it hasnt. At the end of that they'll have a ton of references which can lead you to the right places. If you don't find it by tommorow I'll post again on this thread...nice talking to everyone again.
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I'm interested in seeing those articles because we can debate this allnight, but i'm interested in the facts, do taxpayers actually see a profit, or a deficit? ryan seems to know the field, and scientific research always trumps opinions :)

    But I think Ryan was talking about stadiums in general, and the superdome is not your average stadium.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    dg1979us wrote:
    But I think Ryan was talking about stadiums in general, and the superdome is not your average stadium.


    I think if there's a profit to be had, private investors would be knocking down the door. Don't see why the public needs to fund this kind of stuff.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I think if there's a profit to be had, private investors would be knocking down the door. Don't see why the public needs to fund this kind of stuff.


    Well Im not totally disagreeing and I certainly understand the point that perhaps other areas should be rebuilt before an entertainment venue. But, if that venue provides revenue to the city because of the tourists and people it attracts, who will also spend money in other areas of the city then I dont necessarily see that as a bad thing. New Orleans isnt going to recover if it has no way of generating income. And I would suspect the tourist industry was a large part of the economy.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    dg1979us wrote:
    Well Im not totally disagreeing and I certainly understand the point that perhaps other areas should be rebuilt before an entertainment venue. But, if that venue provides revenue to the city because of the tourists and people it attracts, who will also spend money in other areas of the city then I dont necessarily see that as a bad thing. New Orleans isnt going to recover if it has no way of generating income. And I would suspect the tourist industry was a large part of the economy.

    Like I said, we could debate this all night. My guess is that Bourbon street is the main attraction in NO. and they don't depend on taxpayer dollars. I just think that private business should build their own homes.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    ryan198 wrote:
    If you can get to the library or you are in college and have an online resource called Ebsco then find SportDiscuss... type in a search for camdenization or Friedman, Andrews, Silk (200x) (I believe it was in Sociology of Sport Journal) they talk about how the resurgance of Baltimore through sport/harbor renovation is just a clever trick to show that the city has revitalized even though it hasnt. At the end of that they'll have a ton of references which can lead you to the right places. If you don't find it by tommorow I'll post again on this thread...nice talking to everyone again.

    Ill check it out..thanks. I'm sure we have access here. definately of personal interest.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • dg1979usdg1979us Posts: 568
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Like I said, we could debate this all night. My guess is that Bourbon street is the main attraction in NO. and they don't depend on taxpayer dollars. I just think that private business should build their own homes.

    Im not denying that bourbon street is the main attraction. But the nites leading up to the sugar bowl or superbowl you probably have40- 50,000 tourists who are going to spend there money on bourbon street, or somewhere else in the city.
  • Purple HawkPurple Hawk Posts: 1,300
    dg1979us wrote:
    Im not denying that bourbon street is the main attraction. But the nites leading up to the sugar bowl or superbowl you probably have40- 50,000 tourists who are going to spend there money on bourbon street, or somewhere else in the city.

    I understand, I just would like to see the numbers.
    And you ask me what I want this year
    And I try to make this kind and clear
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
    Cuz I don't need boxes wrapped in strings
    And desire and love and empty things
    Just a chance that maybe we'll find better days
  • tybirdtybird Posts: 17,388
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    Like I said, we could debate this all night. My guess is that Bourbon street is the main attraction in NO. and they don't depend on taxpayer dollars. I just think that private business should build their own homes.
    The Saints don't own the Superdome.......I believe that it is publicly owned.
    All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
  • even flow?even flow? Posts: 8,066
    For all the white people that will be filling the seats, it better get fixed. It will give those displaced people who now don't call New Orleans home a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside knowing that their football team has a stadium to call home again.

    On on the bright side. If the place floods again, they will have a nice shiney palace to retreat too.
    You've changed your place in this world!
  • farfromglorifiedfarfromglorified Posts: 5,696
    ryan198 wrote:
    On MNF they just said that it cost $185 million to renovate that stadium...where are our priorities again?

    Probably in the same place yours were while you were watching MNF.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    ryan198 wrote:
    On MNF they just said that it cost $185 million to renovate that stadium...where are our priorities again?


    before you go crazy on that, over 150 billion has already been spent down there by various government and private entities just trying to rebuild infrastructure, (infrastructure they needed before the F'ing storm but that's another story and on Trailers and paying contractors etc. etc. etc.

    Benson is ok, let me temper myself first, because there are some really bad ones.... Benson makes a case as the worst owner in the NFL. They have a GREAT fanbase down there, but many I've spoken to said they'd help that A hole pack if he wants to move the team to San Antonio. He overcharges the hell out of the fans for really bad end zone upper deck seats (for a couple years they were 10 bucks in Atlanta I believe they are in the 70 dollar range in NO which is ridiculous. The result is they don't sell out games, and that loses the TV revenue as well, Benson is pissed there aren't more corporations in NO that he can sell luxury boxes to. Not only that, the city essentially gave them the new land in Meterie(sp) for the new facility just as the old one mysteriously burned down leaving Benson to collect that money.

    Essentially, the Saints are a diversion, having been down there helping the cleanup effort, they deserve a freaking break. They sold out the basketball games and they've sold out the Saints games too. It's important sometimes for the psyche to have that semblence of normalcy, or point to rally around. Atlanta is the perfect team to come in on monday because we've always had a friendly rivalry with our neighbors to the south. Billions are being spent elsewhere, 185 million is a drop in the bucket when you think about the interest it brings to the region with the NFL (Reggie Bush, Deuce McCalister etc) and then Bowl Games like the Sugar Bowl that bring in millions and millions of tourist dollars that cross pollinate, people see how great down town NO is and they want to come back. Ultimately, some difficult decisions are being made about reconstruction, I don't fault them one bit for making over a 37 year old stadium, it was due anyway. Nagin's folly just made it a necessity. Thousands of jobs depend simply on the Sugar Bowl coming into town

    Maybe one day they will get a decent Owner in that town, but that's about as rare as a good politican in those parts.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    I don't know if I'm the best person to comment on this, because I'm not really much of a football fan - casual at best. But, as mentioned by a number of people here already, the Superdome is more than just a stadium for the Saints. We've got the Sugar Bowl, the Super Bowl is here every few years (we've hosted more Super Bowls than any other city), the Endymion Mardi Gras party, and a host of other tertiary events.

    To be honest, while 185 million sounds like a lot - and it is - it's a little less than I thought it would be. The Superdome is old, and I figured with standard renovations on top of storm damage, we'd be paying either way. Hell, tearing it down would have cost a lot too.

    Plus, it looks cool.

    As a side note, I worked the loading dock for the NFL the last time the Super Bowl was here. While I didn't get to see the game, I did get in free for the Friday night concert (Sting, No Doubt, etc. - and all the Free Drinks I could handle) and the pre-game brunch (buffet style with standard breakfast fare along side pasta, lobster, salmon, steak, ice sculptures, living statues, and all the Free Drinks I could handle). They also set me up with some pretty decent Super Bowl memorabilia like tote bags, ball caps, and, oh yeah, a veritable warehouse full of unused booze (did I mention all the Free Drinks I could handle?). I must say, it was one of the best jobs I ever had, temporary though it was. Almost made a hard core football fan outta me.

    So, I can attest to first hand observation of all the money this thing can generate. Or maybe my vision was a little skewed. I seem to remember there being lots of booze, maybe.
  • 1970RR1970RR Posts: 281
    Purple Hawk wrote:
    I'm interested in seeing those articles because we can debate this allnight, but i'm interested in the facts, do taxpayers actually see a profit, or a deficit? ryan seems to know the field, and scientific research always trumps opinions :)
    Try these, although subject is the baseball stadium in DC I think it would apply to all stadiums:
    http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp89.pdf

    http://www.reason.com/sullum/111204.shtml
  • ryan198ryan198 Posts: 1,015
    farfromglorified wrote:
    Probably in the same place yours were while you were watching MNF.
    I watch monday night football because it is my job to watch sports and evaulate it from a critical standpoint, not because I stand to make millions of dollars off of it.
  • jlew24asujlew24asu Posts: 10,118
    ryan198 wrote:
    I watch monday night football because it is my job to watch sports


    damn I need that job
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