Manufacturing Dissent - Who has seen this documentary about Michael Moore

Kel Varnsen

I think the thing that bugs me the most about Moore, even more than the "facts" that he makes up are the ambush style interviews he does. I saw Bowling for Columbine where he used this technique a bunch of times; confronting people on the street when they totally weren’t prepared to talk to him. I know a lot of times these people probably wouldn’t give him an interview, but even so it totally comes across as hostile. Plus it seems that the whole point of this is to try and get the person to say “no comment” or “I don’t know” and run away (which he totally portrays as a bad thing and makes it look like these people are hiding soemthing). When in reality if some guy with a camera confronts you on the street and starts asking you things you are not 100% sure about of course you are not going to give him an answer.

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

I disagree with his support of Clinton and the Clintonian Health Reform ideal, but I love the guy's work. He does more, in his fashion, to inform the public than anyone else in America.

if someone tells the public lies; how can that be considered INFORMING the public? moore has done more to mislead the public that anyone else.

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

if someone tells the public lies; how can that be considered INFORMING the public? moore has done more to mislead the public that anyone else.

I don't know what that disinformation might be. Let me put it another way. His documentaries get people talking about things we should be talking about.

gue_barium

binger wrote:

Whose purpose does he really serve? He who does not unite, divides. Simple as that.

Why do you take his films personally?

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

I don't know what that disinformation might be. Let me put it another way. His documentaries get people talking about things we should be talking about.

his films detract from reality and give the sheep who believe his babble the wrong perspective. we do need to talk about healthcare but we need to stay within reality. for example; millions of people now believe you can pull into cuba and get healthcare. in reality; you are imprisoned. if you're in cuba legally but not a citizen; you go to a seperate hospital for non-citizens and you pay for services. cuban hospitals require you to provide your own linens and food. none are air conditioned. he also failed to reviel that cuban doctors earn the equivilant of $20USD per month.
so without giving the public the facts; the public wonders why a little island can provide free healthcare while a mighty nation cannot. if american doctors would agree to earning only $20/month we'd have free healthcare. that was moores message.
my best friend is italian and living in toffia. she's been suffering with back problems for years and hasn't been on the board because she can no longer sit at her pc. in the states they'd install a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are still having her put wedges in her shoes trying to change the point her weight sits on her spine.
as with everything else in life; you get what you pay for.

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

his films detract from reality and give the sheep who believe his babble the wrong perspective. we do need to talk about healthcare but we need to stay within reality. for example; millions of people now believe you can pull into cuba and get healthcare. in reality; you are imprisoned. if you're in cuba legally but not a citizen; you go to a seperate hospital for non-citizens and you pay for services. cuban hospitals require you to provide your own linens and food. none are air conditioned. he also failed to reviel that cuban doctors earn the equivilant of $20USD per month.
so without giving the public the facts; the public wonders why a little island can provide free healthcare while a mighty nation cannot. if american doctors would agree to earning only $20/month we'd have free healthcare. that was moores message.
my best friend is italian and living in toffia. she's been suffering with back problems for years and hasn't been on the board because she can no longer sit at her pc. in the states they'd install a dorsal column stimulator but the italian doctors are still having her put wedges in her shoes trying to change the point her weight sits on her spine.
as with everything else in life; you get what you pay for.

The problem is that people like you look for "personal" truths in what is in fact, facts presented to you in such a way to create dialogue on the subject at hand. It engages people to use their critical thinking skills. But if your critical thinking only lies within the realm of what your Daddy says to be true, then you may have trouble grasping that.

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

The problem is that people like you look for "personal" truths in what is in fact, facts presented to you in such a way to create dialogue on the subject at hand. It engages people to use their critical thinking skills. But if your critical thinking only lies within the realm of what your Daddy says to be true, then you may have trouble grasping that.

the film was fictional. all his films are. they do not contain enough truth and by tricking the public into believing his babble; he makes a lot of money from the people he fools. if his intent was to bring the true healthcare crisis to light; it would have addressed the real problems keeping the us from having socialized medicine. for example; if we took the 14 million illegals in america and dropped them into any country; that country's healthcare system would fold.

gue_barium

onelongsong wrote:

the film was fictional. all his films are. they do not contain enough truth and by tricking the public into believing his babble; he makes a lot of money from the people he fools. if his intent was to bring the true healthcare crisis to light; it would have addressed the real problems keeping the us from having socialized medicine. for example; if we took the 14 million illegals in america and dropped them into any country; that country's healthcare system would fold.

There is no trickery, unless you're looking for trickery. There are no out-and-out lies, say, as there were in the Bush administrations excuse for war. Moore always stands by his facts. It's the in-between that's got you puzzled.

onelongsong

gue_barium wrote:

There is no trickery, unless you're looking for trickery. There are no out-and-out lies, say, as there were in the Bush administrations excuse for war. Moore always stands by his facts. It's the in-between that's got you puzzled.

CNN and HEADLINE NEWS both ran specials showing the trickery in sicko. both sent crews to canadian clinics and interviewed those waiting for hours to be seen. someone here posted a link to lawsuits brought against the canadian healthcare system. one involved someone waiting for a hip replacement and another concerning a movement to allow free enterprise medicine in addition to the socialized medicine program. this would allow those who could afford better medicine; access to it. another person posted a link to a story which claimed a dog can get a hip replacement faster than a human could in canada. the original poster mentioned a documentary pointing out the trickery.
what ever happened to hillary-care? during the clinton era hillary had this wonderful idea to bring free healthcare to all americans. that idea fizzled when the real problems were brought to light.

Ahnimus

Well, I know Sicko was full of shit because I researched some of the claims in the film. I did discover some interesting facts about Cuban health care and the relationship with the U.S. Especially concerning hurrican Katrina. But nothing that supported the claims in Sicko. And I know from personal experience with the Canadian Health Care system that Sicko's claims were false.

But this raises a good point. How are we to trust this film, or that film or the next film. None of these documentaries or shockumentaries ever provide citations or sources for their information, any pans of newspaper clippings or government documents tend not to reveal enough to aquire them one's self. I've seen several Alex Jones documentaries and subsequently tried to independantly locate the documents provided in the films, to my dismay this proved to be impossible in many cases.

The only way to know for sure what is going on is to do it yourself.

onelongsong

Ahnimus wrote:

Well, I know Sicko was full of shit because I researched some of the claims in the film. I did discover some interesting facts about Cuban health care and the relationship with the U.S. Especially concerning hurrican Katrina. But nothing that supported the claims in Sicko. And I know from personal experience with the Canadian Health Care system that Sicko's claims were false.

But this raises a good point. How are we to trust this film, or that film or the next film. None of these documentaries or shockumentaries ever provide citations or sources for their information, any pans of newspaper clippings or government documents tend not to reveal enough to aquire them one's self. I've seen several Alex Jones documentaries and subsequently tried to independantly locate the documents provided in the films, to my dismay this proved to be impossible in many cases.

The only way to know for sure what is going on is to do it yourself.

the source was clearly imagination and the motivation was to bash the bush administration. that is the films purpose. i too looked into it with the same results as you. all bs.
thanks for backing me up ryan.

jlew24asu

onelongsong wrote:

the source was clearly imagination and the motivation was to bash the bush administration. that is the films purpose. i too looked into it with the same results as you. all bs.
thanks for backing me up ryan.

I completely agree with you as well. its amazing the praise moore gets around here.

Ahnimus

onelongsong wrote:

the source was clearly imagination and the motivation was to bash the bush administration. that is the films purpose. i too looked into it with the same results as you. all bs.
thanks for backing me up ryan.

No prob, I'm backing up what I consider to be truth, or the best interpretation of facts. I like documentary films and enjoyed all of Moore's films, but you gotta do the research yourself. It always comes down to that. All of these film makers have an agenda, Moore's is most definately political.

Byrnzie

angelica wrote:

I find his "slant" and his treatment of people to be vicious at times.

Like when?

Byrnzie

onelongsong wrote:

moore has done more to mislead the public that anyone else.

Fascinating. I suppose that this is exactly how we should regard anyone who criticizes those in power, right? They're fat, hateful bags of shit who should be condemned for their efforts.

810wmb

Byrnzie wrote:

Fascinating. I suppose that this is exactly how we should regard anyone who criticizes those in power, right? They're fat, hateful bags of shit who should be condemned for their efforts.

not all, just this slobbering pouch of puss

Byrnzie

810wmb wrote:

not all, just this slobbering pouch of puss

I wonder who'd win in a smackdown contest though: Michael Moore or Rush Limbaugh?