What is wrong with the government...

chopitdown

"Republicans should be uniting" to defeat the Democrats, implored former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, rather than stressing their differences with one another.

I saw this on cnn.com and this is something I know has been eluded to on this board and in every day conversations. Notice he didn't say republicans should be uniting to help the country (and no democrat has said that either)...he inferred (from the quote at least) that we should be uniting to defeat the democrats...it's all about beating the other team. When will the gov't and those in it realize they serve us and we don't serve them? When will they quit the attitude of "we can spend it and we can make the public give us more money?"

Jeanie

chopitdown wrote:

"Republicans should be uniting" to defeat the Democrats, implored former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, rather than stressing their differences with one another.

I saw this on cnn.com and this is something I know has been eluded to on this board and in every day conversations. Notice he didn't say republicans should be uniting to help the country (and no democrat has said that either)...he inferred (from the quote at least) that we should be uniting to defeat the democrats...it's all about beating the other team. When will the gov't and those in it realize they serve us and we don't serve them? When will they quit the attitude of "we can spend it and we can make the public give us more money?"

When the public insists that they do chopit.

chopitdown

Jeanie wrote:

When the public insists that they do chopit.

i agree...it's funny though...if you (generic you) talk to the public and take a survey most will agree that we need to have people looking out for the best interest of the country but they will continue to vote for the same popular person b/c I honestly believe people are scared of too much change. We'll take just enough change to have it not mean a damn thing... but we'll all feel great about ourselves for accomplishing "so much". It wouldn't be a pj thread without the gratuitous PJ quote...everything has changed, absolutely nothings changed.

Jeanie

chopitdown wrote:

i agree...it's funny though...if you (generic you) talk to the public and take a survey most will agree that we need to have people looking out for the best interest of the country but they will continue to vote for the same popular person b/c I honestly believe people are scared of too much change. We'll take just enough change to have it not mean a damn thing... but we'll all feel great about ourselves for accomplishing "so much". It wouldn't be a pj thread without the gratuitous PJ quote...everything has changed, absolutely nothings changed.

I think the difficult thing is to recognize change as it is happening chopit.

For instance, many people voted in the current administration in America. And at the time, many people in America didn't even vote, they were so apathetic. So to many in the world, that could be taken as tacit agreement with the policies of the current administration.
However we now see that MANY people world wide are standing up and saying that they do not support the war in Iraq, to such an extent that the American government is finally making arrangements to withdraw. So many Americans have stepped out of their lounge rooms and protested. They have used whatever platform is available to them to denounce the war and/or the current administration and as they have continued, other people have joined them. For instance Eddie and the PJ boys have been very vocal about educating people about the benefits of voting as well as their abhorence of the war almost since the inaguration of the current President. All of these things take time. People do come to change but it mostly happens slowly. But it does happen. It's just much clearer in retrospect most of the time.

I love that lyric. It's so encompassing. Everything changes and nothing changes. Guess it all depends on the perspective on the day right?

RolandTD20Kdrummer

the government has stopped loving us....were all just modern day cotton pickers for the massa Bush plantation...

chopitdown

Jeanie wrote:

I think the difficult thing is to recognize change as it is happening chopit.

For instance, many people voted in the current administration in America. And at the time, many people in America didn't even vote, they were so apathetic. So to many in the world, that could be taken as tacit agreement with the policies of the current administration.
However we now see that MANY people world wide are standing up and saying that they do not support the war in Iraq, to such an extent that the American government is finally making arrangements to withdraw. So many Americans have stepped out of their lounge rooms and protested. They have used whatever platform is available to them to denounce the war and/or the current administration and as they have continued, other people have joined them. For instance Eddie and the PJ boys have been very vocal about educating people about the benefits of voting as well as their abhorence of the war almost since the inaguration of the current President. All of these things take time. People do come to change but it mostly happens slowly. But it does happen. It's just much clearer in retrospect most of the time.

I love that lyric. It's so encompassing. Everything changes and nothing changes. Guess it all depends on the perspective on the day right?

that's a very good point, sometimes the change is slow (relative to how some would like it) and consequently difficult to see until the change has already occurred. And I do think you are correct that more people are wanting to make a change and more people are becoming disillusioned and hopefully we will get change the next time around. I guess I see a few candidates who I really think can make a difference and who people are excited about NOW, but prob won't be supportive of later (I would LOVE to be wrong on that claim) and we'll just be back to where we started. I guess it's also easier to complain about something and offer the "obvious" solution, when in fact it isn't my career on the line. I would love to look back on this time in history and see it as a time when america and the world really started turning the corner and embarked on something new. Not nec something that's utopic and not possible but something that is real and tangible and do-able.

chopitdown

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

the government has stopped loving us....were all just modern day cotton pickers for the massa Bush plantation...

i think it's actually the reupl-ocrat plantation...they're all the same they just get their money from different places.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

chopitdown wrote:

i think it's actually the reupl-ocrat plantation...they're all the same they just get their money from different places.

Actually yeap...that's about the size of it. My fingers are bleeding...and I'm getting a nasty sunburn...

mammasan

Of course they don't care about what is best for this country. Both parties only realy have their best interests at heart.

Bu2

And I'll just add this comment: Obama definitely criticizes the Bush Admin on a regular basis while he's campaigning, but he has been one of the few candidates thus far who has pointed fingers at any other candidate, R or Dem. He doesn't push the Dem side in his books nor in his speeches, overly much (which you can't say about most of the other Dems) -- he seeks more to bring unity and bipartisanship. He is the most openminded of the many candidates (R or Dem) out there, with Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Chuck Hagel being excepted.

Jeanie

chopitdown wrote:

that's a very good point, sometimes the change is slow (relative to how some would like it) and consequently difficult to see until the change has already occurred. And I do think you are correct that more people are wanting to make a change and more people are becoming disillusioned and hopefully we will get change the next time around. I guess I see a few candidates who I really think can make a difference and who people are excited about NOW, but prob won't be supportive of later (I would LOVE to be wrong on that claim) and we'll just be back to where we started. I guess it's also easier to complain about something and offer the "obvious" solution, when in fact it isn't my career on the line. I would love to look back on this time in history and see it as a time when america and the world really started turning the corner and embarked on something new. Not nec something that's utopic and not possible but something that is real and tangible and do-able.

I don't know that we'll be "back to where we started" chopit. Things may be similar but they won't be the same. That's the nature of change I think.
It's all cyclical but I think things do move forward.
I'd love for it to be utopia but that's just me being fantastical, however for all that human nature and politics disappoints me, I have to say that people, ordinary people have had some very real impacts in making positive change in the world. Ultimately I would hope that would triumph. Certainly it is something we can aspire to.

Jeanie

Bu2 wrote:

And I'll just add this comment: Obama definitely criticizes the Bush Admin on a regular basis while he's campaigning, but he has been one of the few candidates thus far who has pointed fingers at any other candidate, R or Dem. He doesn't push the Dem side in his books nor in his speeches, overly much (which you can't say about most of the other Dems) -- he seeks more to bring unity and bipartisanship. He is the most openminded of the many candidates (R or Dem) out there, with Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and Chuck Hagel being excepted.

Thanks bu. To be honest I've not being paying too much attention to your candidates there. As far as I can see any change away from your current administration would have to be a bonus. However, regardless of Obama's "success" or "failure" the very nature of his campaign would have to serve as a beacon for others to emulate? Well one can only hope right?

Bu2

Jeanie wrote:

Thanks bu. To be honest I've not being paying too much attention to your candidates there. As far as I can see any change away from your current administration would have to be a bonus. However, regardless of Obama's "success" or "failure" the very nature of his campaign would have to serve as a beacon for others to emulate? Well one can only hope right?

we can have the audacity to hope.

*had to throw that one in, wink wink*

Jeanie

Bu2 wrote:

we can have the audacity to hope.

*had to throw that one in, wink wink*

Well call me audacious then!

Bu2

Jeanie wrote:

Well call me audacious then!

after looking at the competitions' websites, Obama garners the most meetups, grass roots support, and - for lack of a better word - electricity.

Jeanie

Bu2 wrote:

after looking at the competitions' websites, Obama garners the most meetups, grass roots support, and - for lack of a better word - electricity.

That's a good thing then bu. Because we are all energy really.

Electricity would be an attractant.

chopitdown

Jeanie wrote:

I have to say that people, ordinary people have had some very real impacts in making positive change in the world. Ultimately I would hope that would triumph. Certainly it is something we can aspire to.

I agree wholeheartedly

Jeanie

chopitdown wrote:

I agree wholeheartedly

See chopit? Reckon there's more of us in agreement than in disagreement.

That's gotta, eventually, have a positive impact on the world.

If we can all remember that well worn catch phrase:

"Think globally, act locally"