"truth"...does it divide our coutnry??

chopitdown

i wish i could spell...Country

"I love how no one here has any idea of the actual truth, yet those who think they may have had them are the idiots."

this quote from another thread helped prompt me to start this one. I've been thinking a lot about this lately...why is everyone at each others throat about each and every issue?

Does it come down to the notion of "truth"? I put truth in quotes b/c we live in a time where people say, "i have my truth and you have your truth" and the implications is that both are ultimately right. Truth to me is something that can't change and is something that is either A. right or B. false. We are taught that we each as individuals hold "truth" and it is ours. I tend to disagree. I believe that there is overarching truth and it doesn't change. I believe that we all here have opinions, which are a far cry from truth. I think everyone gets defensive based on differences in opinion which aren't truth, they may be important (i won't deny that). Yes, the opinions are held tightly and are important but remember that for most things they are just opinion. I think the overuse of the word truth (and demagog ) and the thought of equating opinion with truth is something that has caused such a split. I hope this comes across the way i want it to.

know1

I think people confuse "truth" with "perspective" or "opinion" too much.

farfromglorified

"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other wrong, but the middle is always evil. The man who is wrong still retains some respect for the truth, if only by accepting the responsibility of choice. But the man in the middle is the knave who blanks out the truth in order to pretend that no choice or value exist, who is willing to sit out the course of any battle, willing to cash in on the blood of the innocent or crawl on his belly to the guilty, who dispenses justice by condemning both the robber and the robbed to jail, who solves conflict by ordering the thinker and the fool to meet each other halfway. In any compromise between food and poison, it is only death that can win. In any compromise between good and evil, it is only evil that can profit. In the transfusion of blood which drains the good to feed the evil, the compromiser is the transmitting rubber tube.

You, who are half rational, half coward, have been playing a con-game with reality, but the victim you have conned is yourself. When men reduce their values to the approximate, then evil acquires the force of an absolute, when loyalty to an unyielding purpose is dropped by the virtuous, its picked up by scoundrels - and you get the indecent spectacle of a cringing, bargaining, traitorous good and a self-righteously uncompromising evil."

- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

denverfan

know1 wrote:

I think people confuse "truth" with "perspective" or "opinion" too much.

what the fuck is "truth?" Things are so manipulated....From the begining of time manipulation has taken place..who knows what's true anymore!

farfromglorified

denverfan wrote:

what the fuck is "truth?"

That which exists.

Things are so manipulated....From the begining of time manipulation has taken place..who knows what's true anymore!

The people who understand that you cannot manipulate something that does not exist.

chopitdown

denverfan wrote:

what the fuck is "truth?" Things are so manipulated....From the begining of time manipulation has taken place..who knows what's true anymore!

truth is what may or may not be known but is what really happened or is totally 100% accurate or correct. Our opinions are our views / takes of what happened / issues, but they aren't necessarily correct.

Idris

chopitdown wrote:

i wish i could spell...Country

"I love how no one here has any idea of the actual truth, yet those who think they may have had them are the idiots."

this quote from another thread helped prompt me to start this one. I've been thinking a lot about this lately...why is everyone at each others throat about each and every issue?

Does it come down to the notion of "truth"? I put truth in quotes b/c we live in a time where people say, "i have my truth and you have your truth" and the implications is that both are ultimately right. Truth to me is something that can't change and is something that is either A. right or B. false. We are taught that we each as individuals hold "truth" and it is ours. I tend to disagree. I believe that there is overarching truth and it doesn't change. I believe that we all here have opinions, which are a far cry from truth. I think everyone gets defensive based on differences in opinion which aren't truth, they may be important (i won't deny that). Yes, the opinions are held tightly and are important but remember that for most things they are just opinion. I think the overuse of the word truth (and demagog ) and the thought of equating opinion with truth is something that has caused such a split. I hope this comes across the way i want it to.

and that is the 'Truth'... :ugeek:

It is said, when the ego is truly let go, then we can see things as they truly are, the truth...but maybe that's just a lie? We should try it, see if it works.
:P

brianlux

This post looks like an old one but seems as relevant as ever. The point that I noticed right off here is about posters being at each others throats. There certainly is a lot of vigorous debate on this site and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's just too bad the banter doesn't alway remain civil. Food for thought.

Idris

brianlux wrote:

This post looks like an old one but seems as relevant as ever. The point that I noticed right off here is about posters being at each others throats. There certainly is a lot of vigorous debate on this site and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's just too bad the banter doesn't alway remain civil. Food for thought.

yeah brotha The truth is always relevant, :P
--
Sometimes uncivilized debate/banter is healthy, sometimes we see more truth in that kind of conversation, as people are not hiding under (often) perceived civility. They are letting loose, seeing what's what.

But we also need to be able to take a step back. Then move forward. Lose the destructive ego, who cares if we fall down, who cares if we make a mistake..Learn from it, get back up.

arthurdent

I think we need less "truth" and more facts.

Godfather.

Idris wrote:

brianlux wrote:

This post looks like an old one but seems as relevant as ever. The point that I noticed right off here is about posters being at each others throats. There certainly is a lot of vigorous debate on this site and I don't think that's a bad thing. It's just too bad the banter doesn't alway remain civil. Food for thought.

yeah brotha The truth is always relevant, :P
--
Sometimes uncivilized debate/banter is healthy, sometimes we see more truth in that kind of conversation, as people are not hiding under (often) perceived civility. They are letting loose, seeing what's what.

But we also need to be able to take a step back. Then move forward. Lose the destructive ego, who cares if we fall down, who cares if we make a mistake..Learn from it, get back up.

XLNT POST !

Godfather.

Godfather.

arthurdent wrote:

I think we need less "truth" and more facts.

when we talk politics the "truth" is like snipe hunting "very little is really known to be fact which is why opinions clash, but all in all it a good time to learn from each other and have a good laugh sometimes.
reminds me of an old Black Sabbath song "hole in the sky".

Godfather.

Idris

arthurdent wrote:

I think we need less "truth" and more facts.

A fact is a fact, it is true, It's 'a thing done'. Of course Moral realism, objective reality etc Get's brought up. Which is probably a good thing.

Great minds in history have spoken about 'The Truth', spoken in great detail. About the balance. The harmony of truth.

Truth, the ultimate reality, is a place. Very real, a state of mind,a state of being...To be Truly in the truth. Clear. Open. Pure, truth.

Some quotes on 'The Truth' and 'Reality by some great minds throughout history. All speaking about the same constant.

Familiarity breeds contempt. How accurate that is. The reason we hold truth in such respect is because we have so little opportunity to get familiar with it.
-Mark Twain

All of us contain Music & Truth, but most of us can't get it out.
- Mark Twain

A man is never more truthful than when he acknowledges himself as a liar.
- Mark Twain

If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything
-Mark Twain

Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.
-Mark Twain

That which is false troubles the heart, but truth brings joyous tranquility.
-Rumi

When the remedy you have offered only increases the disease, then leave him who will not be cured, and tell your story to someone who seeks the truth.
-Rumi

You think the shadow is the substance.
-Rumi

Only by much searching and mining are gold and diamonds obtained, and man can find every truth connected with his being if he will dig deep into the mine of his soul.
-Rumi

“All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”
-Rumi

“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
-Oscar Wilde

The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge.
-Plato

Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth .. And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth?
-Plato

"The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction."
-Mahatma' Mohandas Gandhi

Buddha, Jesus, etc etc...so many people, so much information for us. all speaking about the same thing. It's really all brilliant. But of course that would be the case, it is a perfect balance :ugeek:
---

One of my favorite quotes...

Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing,
there is a field.
I'll meet you there.

-Rumi

arthurdent

Idris wrote:

---

One of my favorite quotes...

and one of mine:

Archeology is the search for fact- not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.

Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.

Idris

arthurdent wrote:

Idris wrote:

---

One of my favorite quotes...

and one of mine:

Archeology is the search for fact- not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.

Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.

Yes Brotha!...and what did Indy see when he found the facts?...He saw 'The Truth'.

:ugeek:

Idris

great speech, (means so much, today..yesterday)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

If you're really truthful with yourself, it's a wonderful guidance
-Charlie Chaplin

Despair is a narcotic. It lulls the mind into indifference.
-Charlie Chaplin

brianlux

Idris wrote:

great speech, (means so much, today..yesterday)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

If you're really truthful with yourself, it's a wonderful guidance
-Charlie Chaplin

Despair is a narcotic. It lulls the mind into indifference.
-Charlie Chaplin

Awesome, thanks Idris. I was just talking about this film with a good friend. Made my day to see this again!

Idris

brianlux wrote:

Idris wrote:

great speech, (means so much, today..yesterday)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4

If you're really truthful with yourself, it's a wonderful guidance
-Charlie Chaplin

Despair is a narcotic. It lulls the mind into indifference.
-Charlie Chaplin

Awesome, thanks Idris. I was just talking about this film with a good friend. Made my day to see this again!

Yeah bro cool, it's some powerful words, a great film. Mr Charlie Chaplin knew about the reality, and something interesting, this was his first major speaking film. Plus at the time it came out, right at the Nazi tipping point.

'A Christmas Carol' is another piece of work I just got through again today, man it's so good. Scrooge awakening to the 'reality'.

oh and les miserables! Victor Hugo...! Another 'enlightened' thinker, have you ever seen the TV show 'Lost'? One of the Characters 'Hurley' awakens to 'the truth' during the series, anyway he is named after Victor Hugo.

And the theme of Lost was 'truth', 'Dharma' etc.

That show had some good writing, deep meanings. The whole deal with Potentiality. Same things we all go through, the choices, the doors we open.

Following a balance, like Charlie had a choice, to remain silent, or speak the truth from his heart. Keeping in mind that it was 1940!

my bad, I kinda ramble sometimes...

kenny olav

"We hold these truths to be self-evident!"

When you are born as an American, you are taught right away to believe that certain philosophical truths are 'self-evident', mainly that we are created equal by a Creator who wants us to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Certain scientific truths like evolution are not necessarily considered self-evident, but you can 'believe' in them if you wish. The birth of America was clearly a breech birth.

RW81233

I think there may be a "true" thing that happened but that there exist multiple ways to understand that moment. So when an official "truth" does come out one must always ask who's truth, why does it count more, to what ends does it exist and so on. Get your hands on this if you can http://csc.sagepub.com/content/4/2/137.abstract

he still stands

‎"All things are subject to interpretation; whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth."

-Friedrich Nietzsche