"truth"...does it divide our coutnry??
chopitdown
Posts: 2,222
i wish i could spell...Country
"I love how no one here has any idea of the actual truth, yet those who think they may have had them are the idiots."
this quote from another thread helped prompt me to start this one. I've been thinking a lot about this lately...why is everyone at each others throat about each and every issue?
Does it come down to the notion of "truth"? I put truth in quotes b/c we live in a time where people say, "i have my truth and you have your truth" and the implications is that both are ultimately right. Truth to me is something that can't change and is something that is either A. right or B. false. We are taught that we each as individuals hold "truth" and it is ours. I tend to disagree. I believe that there is overarching truth and it doesn't change. I believe that we all here have opinions, which are a far cry from truth. I think everyone gets defensive based on differences in opinion which aren't truth, they may be important (i won't deny that). Yes, the opinions are held tightly and are important but remember that for most things they are just opinion. I think the overuse of the word truth (and demagog
) and the thought of equating opinion with truth is something that has caused such a split. I hope this comes across the way i want it to.
"I love how no one here has any idea of the actual truth, yet those who think they may have had them are the idiots."
this quote from another thread helped prompt me to start this one. I've been thinking a lot about this lately...why is everyone at each others throat about each and every issue?
Does it come down to the notion of "truth"? I put truth in quotes b/c we live in a time where people say, "i have my truth and you have your truth" and the implications is that both are ultimately right. Truth to me is something that can't change and is something that is either A. right or B. false. We are taught that we each as individuals hold "truth" and it is ours. I tend to disagree. I believe that there is overarching truth and it doesn't change. I believe that we all here have opinions, which are a far cry from truth. I think everyone gets defensive based on differences in opinion which aren't truth, they may be important (i won't deny that). Yes, the opinions are held tightly and are important but remember that for most things they are just opinion. I think the overuse of the word truth (and demagog
) and the thought of equating opinion with truth is something that has caused such a split. I hope this comes across the way i want it to. make sure the fortune that you seek...is the fortune that you need
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...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
You, who are half rational, half coward, have been playing a con-game with reality, but the victim you have conned is yourself. When men reduce their values to the approximate, then evil acquires the force of an absolute, when loyalty to an unyielding purpose is dropped by the virtuous, its picked up by scoundrels - and you get the indecent spectacle of a cringing, bargaining, traitorous good and a self-righteously uncompromising evil."
- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
what the fuck is "truth?" Things are so manipulated....From the begining of time manipulation has taken place..who knows what's true anymore!
'If my fuckin' ex-wife told me to take care of her dog while her and her new boyfriend went to Honolulu, I'd tell her to go fuck herself." -The Dude
Whisky Drinker, Non-Hunter from Denver.
That which exists.
The people who understand that you cannot manipulate something that does not exist.
truth is what may or may not be known but is what really happened or is totally 100% accurate or correct. Our opinions are our views / takes of what happened / issues, but they aren't necessarily correct.
and that is the 'Truth'... :ugeek:
It is said, when the ego is truly let go, then we can see things as they truly are, the truth...but maybe that's just a lie? We should try it, see if it works.
:P
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
yeah brotha The truth is always relevant, :P
--
Sometimes uncivilized debate/banter is healthy, sometimes we see more truth in that kind of conversation, as people are not hiding under (often) perceived civility. They are letting loose, seeing what's what.
But we also need to be able to take a step back. Then move forward. Lose the destructive ego, who cares if we fall down, who cares if we make a mistake..Learn from it, get back up.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
XLNT POST !
Godfather.
when we talk politics the "truth" is like snipe hunting "very little is really known to be fact which is why opinions clash, but all in all it a good time to learn from each other and have a good laugh sometimes.
reminds me of an old Black Sabbath song "hole in the sky".
Godfather.
A fact is a fact, it is true, It's 'a thing done'. Of course Moral realism, objective reality etc Get's brought up. Which is probably a good thing.
Great minds in history have spoken about 'The Truth', spoken in great detail. About the balance. The harmony of truth.
Truth, the ultimate reality, is a place. Very real, a state of mind,a state of being...To be Truly in the truth. Clear. Open. Pure, truth.
Some quotes on 'The Truth' and 'Reality by some great minds throughout history. All speaking about the same constant.
Familiarity breeds contempt. How accurate that is. The reason we hold truth in such respect is because we have so little opportunity to get familiar with it.
-Mark Twain
All of us contain Music & Truth, but most of us can't get it out.
- Mark Twain
A man is never more truthful than when he acknowledges himself as a liar.
- Mark Twain
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything
-Mark Twain
Truth is the most valuable thing we have. Let us economize it.
-Mark Twain
That which is false troubles the heart, but truth brings joyous tranquility.
-Rumi
When the remedy you have offered only increases the disease, then leave him who will not be cured, and tell your story to someone who seeks the truth.
-Rumi
You think the shadow is the substance.
-Rumi
Only by much searching and mining are gold and diamonds obtained, and man can find every truth connected with his being if he will dig deep into the mine of his soul.
-Rumi
“All day I think about it, then at night I say it. Where did I come from, and what am I supposed to be doing? I have no idea. My soul is from elsewhere, I'm sure of that, and I intend to end up there.”
-Rumi
“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
-Oscar Wilde
The philosopher is in love with truth, that is, not with the changing world of sensation, which is the object of opinion, but with the unchanging reality which is the object of knowledge.
-Plato
Truthfulness. He will never willingly tolerate an untruth, but will hate it as much as he loves truth .. And is there anything more closely connected with wisdom than truth?
-Plato
"The Truth is far more powerful than any weapon of mass destruction."
-Mahatma' Mohandas Gandhi
Buddha, Jesus, etc etc...so many people, so much information for us. all speaking about the same thing. It's really all brilliant. But of course that would be the case, it is a perfect balance :ugeek:
---
One of my favorite quotes...
Out beyond ideas of wrong-doing and right-doing,
there is a field.
I'll meet you there.
-Rumi
and one of mine:
Archeology is the search for fact- not truth. If it's truth you're looking for, Dr. Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall.
Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.
Wash me in the blood of Rock & Roll
Yes Brotha!...and what did Indy see when he found the facts?...He saw 'The Truth'.
:ugeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcvjoWOwnn4
If you're really truthful with yourself, it's a wonderful guidance
-Charlie Chaplin
Despair is a narcotic. It lulls the mind into indifference.
-Charlie Chaplin
Awesome, thanks Idris. I was just talking about this film with a good friend. Made my day to see this again!
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Yeah bro cool, it's some powerful words, a great film. Mr Charlie Chaplin knew about the reality, and something interesting, this was his first major speaking film. Plus at the time it came out, right at the Nazi tipping point.
'A Christmas Carol' is another piece of work I just got through again today, man it's so good. Scrooge awakening to the 'reality'.
oh and les miserables! Victor Hugo...! Another 'enlightened' thinker, have you ever seen the TV show 'Lost'? One of the Characters 'Hurley' awakens to 'the truth' during the series, anyway he is named after Victor Hugo.
And the theme of Lost was 'truth', 'Dharma' etc.
That show had some good writing, deep meanings. The whole deal with Potentiality. Same things we all go through, the choices, the doors we open.
Following a balance, like Charlie had a choice, to remain silent, or speak the truth from his heart. Keeping in mind that it was 1940!
my bad, I kinda ramble sometimes...
When you are born as an American, you are taught right away to believe that certain philosophical truths are 'self-evident', mainly that we are created equal by a Creator who wants us to have life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Certain scientific truths like evolution are not necessarily considered self-evident, but you can 'believe' in them if you wish. The birth of America was clearly a breech birth.
-Friedrich Nietzsche
Some people may conclude that 30% of sheep are black.
Others might say that this random sampling of sheep, 3 of 10 are black.
Still, others will be more specific and conclude that 3 of the 10 sheep on this hillside are black.
The truth of the matter is that of the 10 sheep on the hillside, 3 of them are black... on the side that is visible to us.
...
In order to find the truth... you would have to get out and verify the facts... using different perspectives as a basis of your methodology.
Hail, Hail!!!
This reminds me of a film I saw several years ago in a sociology class. The film showed the exact same accident (which I believe was staged) from the perspective of three different film crews and editors. The three vantage points made the incident look like three different accidents.
Which also reminds me of the famous Akutagawa story, "In a Grove", which tells the story of the killing of a Samurai from the conflicting testimony of various witnesses. (This story is found in Akutagawa's book Rashomon which Jim Jarmusch used interestingly enough in his excellent film "Ghost Dog".)
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Ballot or the bullet, a bloodless revolution.. :ugeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlx3v8RR ... ata_player
Malcolm X Oxford Union debate,
Brilliant stuff,
--
by Johnny Cash
The old man turned off the radio
Said, "Where did all of the old songs go
Kids sure play funny music these days
They play it in the strangest ways"
Said, "it looks to me like they've all gone wild
It was peaceful back when I was a child"
Well, man, could it be that the girls and boys
Are trying to be heard above your noise?
And the lonely voice of youth cries "What is truth?"
A little boy of three sittin' on the floor
Looks up and says, "Daddy, what is war?"
"son, that's when people fight and die"
The little boy of three says "Daddy, why?"
A young man of seventeen in Sunday school
Being taught the golden rule
And by the time another year has gone around
It may be his turn to lay his life down
Can you blame the voice of youth for asking
"What is truth?"
A young man sittin' on the witness stand
The man with the book says "Raise your hand"
"Repeat after me, I solemnly swear"
The man looked down at his long hair
And although the young man solemnly swore
Nobody seems to hear anymore
And it didn't really matter if the truth was there
It was the cut of his clothes and the length of his hair
And the lonely voice of youth cries
"What is truth?"
The young girl dancing to the latest beat
Has found new ways to move her feet
The young man speaking in the city square
Is trying to tell somebody that he cares
Yeah, the ones that you're calling wild
Are going to be the leaders in a little while
This old world's wakin' to a new born day
And I solemnly swear that it'll be their way
You better help the voice of youth find
"What is truth/"