Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming

chopitdown

interesting read.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

Simultaneous warming on Earth and Mars suggests that our planet's recent climate changes have a natural—and not a human- induced—cause, according to one scientist's controversial theory.

Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.


Mars, too, appears to be enjoying more mild and balmy temperatures.

In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of the St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said.

Solar Cycles

Abdussamatov believes that changes in the sun's heat output can account for almost all the climate changes we see on both planets.

Mars and Earth, for instance, have experienced periodic ice ages throughout their histories.

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

By studying fluctuations in the warmth of the sun, Abdussamatov believes he can see a pattern that fits with the ups and downs in climate we see on Earth and Mars.

Abdussamatov's work, however, has not been well received by other climate scientists.

monkey spanker

too much common sense for this board.
there is a giant ball of gas in the sky that warms our planet. this giant ball of gas (known as the sun) is so large that its volume could contain over 1 million planets the size of the earth. it burns at over 27,000,000 degrees farenheit, but at times it burns hotter, and at times it burns cooler. but according to the liberals, its not this huge ball of gas that explains why the earth constantly goes through heating and cooling cycles...its my lightbulbs.

LOL

even flow?

Ah chopitdown this is just a way to deflect the fact that the hole in the ozone layer is letting our crap leak into the solar system and that is what is causing Mars' problem too.

inmytree

fyi...

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=235614


anyway....keep on polluting, baby...we have no effect on our environment...right....?

sonicreducer

someone give me one reason why we shouldn't change our ways and ill debate with you.

even flow?

sonicreducer wrote:

someone give me one reason why we shouldn't change our ways and ill debate with you.

My oil stocks. My auto industry stocks. My Haliburton stocks. There is three to start.

sonicreducer

even flow? wrote:

My oil stocks. My auto industry stocks. My Haliburton stocks. There is three to start.

you dirty, dirty man,... carn sarn you

but seriously, come on you fucks,... bring it,...

Uncle Leo

sonicreducer wrote:

you dirty, dirty man,... carn sarn you

but seriously, come on you fucks,... bring it,...

Because I don't want to make any effort whatsoever.

Ahnimus

I swear we've already had a thread on this.

It's ok to find other contributors to Global Warming. However, it'd be ridiculous to assume this means our contributions are benign.

Within the article it's self is written...

"Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said.

The extent to which we effect the atmosphere is questionable. However, the concordance records do strongly imply that we have a drastic effect.

It's not merely coincidence that global temperature spiked following the dawn of the industrial age.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

We have enough of an effect on the atmosphere to blow (and heal) a hole in our ozone layer.

There's no doubt what we do definitely affects the atmosphere to an appreciable extent. Increasingly so as time goes on. Whether or not raising the CO2 ppm level gives the atmosphere more insulating properties is the question.

If the atmosphere is comprised of these gases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth's_at ... omposition

Can scientists not produce the same concentrations in a lab and test for heat dissipation, etc...?

chopitdown

even flow? wrote:

Ah chopitdown this is just a way to deflect the fact that the hole in the ozone layer is letting our crap leak into the solar system and that is what is causing Mars' problem too.

i knew there would be some Mars sympathizer on this board!

chopitdown

inmytree wrote:

fyi...

http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=235614


anyway....keep on polluting, baby...we have no effect on our environment...right....?

sorry for not using the search function. And I have never said we have no effect on our environment. I said it was an interesting read. I just differ as to "why" we should care for our environment...not the "should we care for it".

chopitdown

sonicreducer wrote:

you dirty, dirty man,... carn sarn you

but seriously, come on you fucks,... bring it,...

no one is saying we shouldn't take care of the environment. Relax man. I just don't think the impetus for taking care or our environment is global warming. I think we need to b/c it's the responsible thing to do, we should be good stewards of the earth. But if some people need global warming to be real as a reason to take care of the environment, then so be it.

Ahnimus

I've been a Global Warming skeptic since it's conception. Though I argue now that it is real. The effect of recycling paper and plastic may actually be negative and that I would like reassessed. Though I would not excuse our contribution of CO2.

RolandTD20Kdrummer

sonicreducer wrote:

you dirty, dirty man,... carn sarn you

but seriously, come on you fucks,... bring it,...

try to go easy on the:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38081000/jpg/_38081297_cocaine300.jpg

puremagic

What's interesting about this article is that I think the article unintentionally makes a strong point towards the human factor and global warming. Mars' atmosphere is much, much thinner than ours. If the Earth's dense atmosphere is exhibiting the same warming signs (melting ice caps) within the same general timeframe as Mars, then wouldn't this be suggestive that Earth's atmosphere is being depleted faster than Mars? If so, in order for that to happen, the Sun could not be viewed as the sole source for the depletion of the atmosphere, the human equation would also have to be addressed as a competing factor.

farfromglorified

sonicreducer wrote:

someone give me one reason why we shouldn't change our ways and ill debate with you.

Because there is no "we" and there is no "our".

chopitdown

puremagic wrote:

What's interesting about this article is that I think the article unintentionally makes a strong point towards the human factor and global warming. Mars' atmosphere is much, much thinner than ours. If the Earth's dense atmosphere is exhibiting the same warming signs (melting ice caps) within the same general timeframe as Mars, then wouldn't this be suggestive that Earth's atmosphere is being depleted faster than Mars? If so, in order for that to happen, the Sun could not be viewed as the sole source for the depletion of the atmosphere, the human equation would also have to be addressed as a competing factor.

I think it intentionally links the 2. The authors conclusion is just that the human contribution doesn't compare to that of the suns...I don't think he's saying we shouldn't be aware of the human factor, it's just that there is a bigger factor at play.

PJPOWER

When will those bastards on mars learn that oil is not the answer..........lol

sonicreducer

RolandTD20Kdrummer wrote:

try to go easy on the:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/images/38081000/jpg/_38081297_cocaine300.jpg

its hard to quit, but you're a nice lady,...

sonicreducer

farfromglorified wrote:

Because there is no "we" and there is no "our".

well, the way i see it is it starts with "me" and "my" "contribution". but not everyone will follow. so i gather others to make a collective effort,... two heads is better than one, correct?

i have started to change, recently, the way i look at conservation. i have put pressure on the whole household that i live in. there are five of us. we have collectively made a difference.