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What does "support the troops" mean...

CollinCollin Posts: 4,931
edited March 2008 in A Moving Train
... to you?
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  • leethalleethal Posts: 134
    Its genius propaganda: It takes a great deal of skill or luck to create an arbitrary statement that the vast majority of people would agree with yet create an imaginary division.

    The statement cannot even be defined: Do I just support the troops to remain unharmed? Do i support the troops to kill? Its a distraction from real issues. There is no intellectual basis.
  • Sian-of-the-deadSian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    Collin wrote:
    ... to you?

    Supporting and respecting the men and women all over the world who fight for people they've never met, leave their families with possibility of never returning, to coutries they don't wanna go to, to fight for causes they may not believe in.

    AKA goddamn heros.
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • BibbsBibbs Posts: 229
    send them your spare bras ;)
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  • Sian-of-the-deadSian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    Bibbs wrote:
    send them your spare bras ;)

    why, so they could use them as parachutes?! :rolleyes: ;)
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • electronblueelectronblue WPB Florida Posts: 3,460
    to me it means $$$ and stand behind them in their beliefs...~
    ********************************
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    it's just me"


  • Will1659Will1659 Posts: 51
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    fight for causes they may not believe in.
    does not =
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    goddamn heroes.

    I think the word hero, in fact, is so incredibly overused in today's world that it has lost most of its meaning. But to answer the original question, "support the troops" is a meaningless propaganda phrase that the right has come up with to make themselves feel good while trying to pigeonhole political opponents.
  • Sian-of-the-deadSian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    Will1659 wrote:
    does not =


    I think the word hero, in fact, is so incredibly overused in today's world that it has lost most of its meaning. But to answer the original question, "support the troops" is a meaningless propaganda phrase that the right has come up with to make themselves feel good while trying to pigeonhole political opponents.

    hero –noun, plural -roes;
    1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
    2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal.

    I thought this thread was about what support the troops meant to us personally? I do believe that they are brave men and women. I can tell you that fighting for causes they may not believe in to make me and my family feel safe in our beds at night and to help people thousands of miles from home that will never thank them certainly makes them heroes in my eyes. politics aside, I may not agree with the causes but they do something that I couldn't.
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    It means different things in different countries. In the States, the troops are supported as representatives of the people; in Britain the troops are largely perceived (whether one agrees or not) as a moronic, otherwise unemployable sub-class, serving the interests of state. No media support or propaganda for "Our Boys" changes that. However Murdoch might be trying to reprogramme British history, there are centuries of evidence of there being a general civilian consensus that your average, non-conscripted squaddie constituted the nation's trash, barely one up from a criminal. Old habits die hard and the media will have a hard job changing people's views.

    It's completely different in the States because of the post-colonial, emancipatory symbolism and significance of the American soldier, as someone who is one of us, a braver version of us who will take on our burdens and fight for our freedoms. Even if an American soldier fights a state war against the wishes of the public, support for them remains, and deservedly so because of the risk they take. British squaddies, though, have nowhere near that level of support, and morale was at an all time low even going into the Iraq war. I know pubs and public places in this area where it's been sport to beat up a soldier for years.
  • Sian-of-the-deadSian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    British squaddies, though, have nowhere near that level of support, and morale was at an all time low even going into the Iraq war. I know pubs and public places in this area where it's been sport to beat up a soldier for years.

    I agree and being British, it angers me. I think it was in Peterborough last week where troops were told not to wear their uniforms outside of the barracks because of the abuse from locals. What the hell is wrong with people?*

    *rhetorical question.
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    I agree and being British, it angers me. I think it was in Peterborough last week where troops were told not to wear their uniforms outside of the barracks because of the abuse from locals. What the hell is wrong with people?*

    *rhetorical question.


    Well, I think it's sensible of them not to wear uniforms, and probably safer for everyone.

    In wartime, the British public support their troops, but moreover love a mutineer or a deserter: someone who beats the system. Look at the ongoing mystique surrounding Percy Toplis:

    http://www.eden.gov.uk/main.asp?page=3488

    Compare this with the fictional portrayal of Toplis, the one seared into the public imagination:

    http://news.scotsman.com/worldwarone/Myth-of-the-Monocled-Mutineer.2632710.jp
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Collin wrote:
    ... to you?

    bring them home and begin to close all international military installations...
  • Sian-of-the-deadSian-of-the-dead Posts: 8,963
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    Well, I think it's sensible of them not to wear uniforms, and probably safer for everyone.

    As do I with the situation that they appear to be in, but they should be able to wear their uniform and NOT feel threatened. Unfortuantely this isn't the case and it's this that angers me.
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    In wartime, the British public support their troops, but moreover love a mutineer or a deserter: someone who beats the system. Look at the ongoing mystique surrounding Percy Toplis:

    http://www.eden.gov.uk/main.asp?page=3488

    Compare this with the fictional portrayal of Toplis, the one seared into the public imagination:

    http://news.scotsman.com/worldwarone/Myth-of-the-Monocled-Mutineer.2632710.jp

    Wow! I'd never heard of Toplis before, you've really sparked my interest now... :o
    Been to this many PJ shows: Reading 2006 London 2007 Manchester & London 2009 Dublin, Belfast, London, Nijmegen & Berlin 2010 Manchester 1 & Manchester 2 2012...

    ... and I still think Drive-By Truckers are better.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    As do I with the situation that they appear to be in, but they should be able to wear their uniform and NOT feel threatened. Unfortuantely this isn't the case and it's this that angers me.


    You could alternatively suggest, though, that a lot of people feel threatened by the uniforms, I think, and it brings out a need for self-preservation against the fear of creeping martial law. Uniforms in general scare people unless they're perverts: I mean, have you heard about these dalek traffic wardens with cameras attached to their hats? Fuck's sake!
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    You could alternatively suggest, though, that a lot of people feel threatened by the uniforms, I think, and it brings out a need for self-preservation against the fear of creeping martial law. Uniforms in general scare people unless they're perverts: I mean, have you heard about these dalek traffic wardens with cameras attached to their hats? Fuck's sake!
    I just want to take the time to personally thank you. Seeing a Dalek reference on a Pearl Jam message board made my freakin' day.
  • FinsburyParkCarrotsFinsburyParkCarrots Seattle, WA Posts: 12,223
    RainDog wrote:
    I just want to take the time to personally thank you. Seeing a Dalek reference on a Pearl Jam message board made my freakin' day.



    There ya go. Here's a lovely shot of Hillary with the troops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/content/images/2005/03/15/davros_daleks2_resurrection_terry_malloy2_400_400x300.jpg
  • South of SeattleSouth of Seattle West Seattle Posts: 10,724
    Bakesales! and an American Flag bumper sticker
    NERDS!
  • RolandTD20KdrummerRolandTD20Kdrummer Posts: 13,066
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    There ya go. Here's a lovely shot of Hillary with the troops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/content/images/2005/03/15/davros_daleks2_resurrection_terry_malloy2_400_400x300.jpg

    Looks like an early morning photo...
    Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
    and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
    over specific principles, goals, and policies.

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  • IAmMyselfIAmMyself Posts: 671
    Let's not have another Viet Nam situation. We are in a VERY unpopular war, created by a tyrant. And the troops are just doing what they are told by their boss our igonorant leader of the free world. SO support the troops, or at least when I say it, means-just because you don't agree with the war, don't take it out on the troops who have NO CONTROL who they are fighting, they are only fighting for freedom, if only in their own minds, take out your anger for an unfair and stupid war on the bastard who made the call, not the guys who carry out the mission.
    "Please help me to help you, help yourself." EV
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    FinsburyParkCarrots wrote:
    There ya go. Here's a lovely shot of Hillary with the troops:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/norfolk/content/images/2005/03/15/davros_daleks2_resurrection_terry_malloy2_400_400x300.jpg
    See, now that's so much better than the constant Wicked Witch of the West and her Flying Monkeys allegory we usually get regarding Hillary. Give me something with some real metal too it.
  • Vedderlution_BabyVedderlution_Baby Posts: 2,535
    irieinindy wrote:
    Let's not have another Viet Nam situation. We are in a VERY unpopular war, created by a tyrant. And the troops are just doing what they are told by their boss our igonorant leader of the free world. SO support the troops, or at least when I say it, means-just because you don't agree with the war, don't take it out on the troops who have NO CONTROL who they are fighting, they are only fighting for freedom, if only in their own minds, take out your anger for an unfair and stupid war on the bastard who made the call, not the guys who carry out the mission.


    Depends on what the mission is. Nobody is given a free pass in my book.
  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:

    I thought this thread was about what support the troops meant to us personally? I do believe that they are brave men and women. I can tell you that fighting for causes they may not believe in to make me and my family feel safe in our beds at night and to help people thousands of miles from home that will never thank them certainly makes them heroes in my eyes. politics aside, I may not agree with the causes but they do something that I couldn't.
    can I ask you how the fact that they're fighting an illegitimate war for 'a cause they don't believe in' (which in the British army would have been a minority at the beginning) makes you feel safer in your bed at night? That they're over THERE killing men, women and children for no reason rather than you? That they're encouraging terrorism? If your parents, siblings and dog were killed in these circumstances, if you lost your limbs... would you grow up loving the country and people who did that to you?

    I'd say it's pretty safe to say that British occupancy in Northern Ireland only made people a little bit more annoyed.... so hence encouraging terrorism/freedom fighting.
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
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    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
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  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Sian-of-the-dead wrote:
    hero –noun, plural -roes;
    1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.
    2. a person who, in the opinion of others, has heroic qualities or has performed a heroic act and is regarded as a model or ideal.

    I thought this thread was about what support the troops meant to us personally? I do believe that they are brave men and women. I can tell you that fighting for causes they may not believe in to make me and my family feel safe in our beds at night and to help people thousands of miles from home that will never thank them certainly makes them heroes in my eyes. politics aside, I may not agree with the causes but they do something that I couldn't.

    First of all, who do you need protecting against? Iraqis? Since when?
    Secondly, who are they helping in Iraq? Over 1 million Iraqis have been killed and many more have fled the country. How is that helping them?
  • DriftingByTheStormDriftingByTheStorm Posts: 8,684
    leethal wrote:
    Its genius propaganda: [...]Its a distraction from real issues. There is no intellectual basis.

    +100

    I "support the troops", in that i know the majority of them really think they are doing the right thing. I mean, hell, why would your government lie to you and send you to war for unjust reasons?

    Beyond that sense of the term, it is as leethal said, pure propaganda.

    PARTICULARLY, this variant, which just makes me want to kill, myself: "Support the troops by supporting the mission".

    Yeah right. Propaganda^2 !
    If I was to smile and I held out my hand
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  • sapperskunksapperskunk Posts: 684
    Heineken Helen wrote:
    can I ask you how the fact that they're fighting an illegitimate war for 'a cause they don't believe in' (which in the British army would have been a minority at the beginning) makes you feel safer in your bed at night? That they're over THERE killing men, women and children for no reason rather than you? That they're encouraging terrorism? If your parents, siblings and dog were killed in these circumstances, if you lost your limbs... would you grow up loving the country and people who did that to you?

    I'd say it's pretty safe to say that British occupancy in Northern Ireland only made people a little bit more annoyed.... so hence encouraging terrorism/freedom fighting.

    I couldn't agree with you more Helen, I wish the British didn't waste their time on such a piece of shit region like Northern Ireland either. :)

    Poor poor limeys.
    www.myspace.com/olafvonmastadon
  • PJ_SalukiPJ_Saluki Posts: 1,006
    That's one helluva question. What the does "support the troops" mean? U.S. soldiers aren't conscripted, though some may believe they have no other choice but military service. I guess the way I look at it is, I hate the war and the jerks who started it, but I respect the men and women who are willing to risk their lives in service of their country. Sure, some of them have self-serving reasons to join, but I think there are probably just as many patriots doing the same. And yeah, some soldiers just want an excuse to legally slaughter brown people, though I won't look at all veterans as stone killers. I hear "The Star Spangled Banner" quite a bit because of my job and when it plays I always try to think of the men and women in uniform who are in the military. I'll buy 'em a beer when they get back stateside or send 'em an e-card at Xmas, but I guess I really don't do shit to support the troops and I'm not even sure how I could support them. Yep, sounds like some propaganda to me. Bush and his cronies played on the sensitivities of U.S. citizens by separating the individual soldier from the despicable war in Iraq. Afghanistan was righteous, but this other thing...
    "Almost all those politicians took money from Enron, and there they are holding hearings. That's like O.J. Simpson getting in the Rae Carruth jury pool." -- Charles Barkley
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    leethal wrote:
    Its genius propaganda: It takes a great deal of skill or luck to create an arbitrary statement that the vast majority of people would agree with yet create an imaginary division.

    The statement cannot even be defined: Do I just support the troops to remain unharmed? Do i support the troops to kill? Its a distraction from real issues. There is no intellectual basis.
    well put
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    Collin wrote:
    ... to you?

    a mantra that helps releive or covers up guilt
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    Maybe people have forgotten, but the Iraqis welcomed the troops with open arms when Saddam was toppled. Then came about the civil war and that's how you get a majority of these 1 million dead iraqis.

    Now they have changed their minds and they want the US gone for whatever reason, but I doubt few people would argue with the notion that the absence of US Troops would lead to even further genocide.

    So, with that in mind, it's safe to say that Iraqi lives are at the present moment being saved by the presence of US soldiers. And again, initially, they WANTED the US there. The fact that they're pissed about it now interfering with their own political agenda is a different story, especially when considering that their political agendas most probably involves killing just as many if not more of their fellow Arab countrymen than have been killed so far.
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  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    I don't support the troops to use force and power to over take other people and their homeland. I don't support them to kill or maim.

    I support them to return home safely. And I support them to defend our homeland when under a persistant attack as a last resort when all other means of resolution have failed. We've never been under such an attack.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

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  • Heineken HelenHeineken Helen Posts: 18,095
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    I don't support the troops to use force and power to over take other people and their homeland. I don't support them to kill or maim.

    I support them to return home safely.
    :confused: AFTER they've done everything you say you DON'T support in the first paragraph?

    see that's what I don't get... if people were out there doing that in MY name, I certainly wouldn't be campaigning to bring them home safely.
    The Astoria??? Orgazmic!
    Verona??? it's all surmountable
    Dublin 23.08.06 "The beauty of Ireland, right there!"
    Wembley? We all believe!
    Copenhagen?? your light made us stars
    Chicago 07? And love
    What a different life
    Had I not found this love with you
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