In Search of a Church

bootlegger10

Kenny Olav wrote:

Churches are businesses, and it's a free market.

Churches on tv are. The mega churches in your neighborhood probably are. But 98% of them are churches for the sake of worshipping God and congregating together.

kenny olav

bootlegger10 wrote:

Churches on tv are. The mega churches in your neighborhood probably are. But 98% of them are churches for the sake of worshipping God and congregating together.

no mega churches in my area, but to address your main point, I realize I may sound cynical, and in no way did I mean to imply that most church goers, including their pastors, are not genuinely interested in congregating together to worship their God. i know that most churches are not used to make the people who run the church into millionaires, or rich at all. but churches do have to pay the bills, and pay salaries, and so they have to keep members interested, and they have to compete with all of the other churches.

churches also have to compete with athiesm & agnosticism, although these are not businesses.

El_Kabong

qtegirl wrote:

It's very easy for catholics. You just go to the church in your diocese. Most catholics trust that the pastor that the church picked for them is the right one for their community.

There are some, however, who choose other churches to go to, although, they are still catholics. It may have something to do with what "class" of people go to one church vs. the other. See, us catholics love the poor, as long as we don't have to worship next to them. We'll do clothes drives, give money during collection, even give extra money when they repair (read remodel) the church.

i went to a catholic church when i was little, then didn't go anymore till i went w/ a girl i was w/ at the time...i don't know what denomination it was but it looked pretty renovated...lots of stain glass windows, new looking buildings, newly paved parking lots...then the preacher spent the first 10 or so min complaining about ppl not giving enough money and how can they spread the word of god and help ppl if we're not willing to do our part and give?? maybe they should've thought of that before buying all those stained glass windows and repaving some parking lots

bootlegger10

Kenny Olav wrote:

no mega churches in my area, but to address your main point, I realize I may sound cynical, and in no way did I mean to imply that most church goers, including their pastors, are not genuinely interested in congregating together to worship their God. i know that most churches are not used to make the people who run the church into millionaires, or rich at all. but churches do have to pay the bills, and pay salaries, and so they have to keep members interested, and they have to compete with all of the other churches.

churches also have to compete with athiesm & agnosticism, although these are not businesses.

I think there is plenty of money to be made in perpetuating the non-existence of God.

Why do people still cling to the doctrine of evolution? Why does the supposed genius Hawkings say that intelligent design could exist, but by an alien and not a Creator.

ForestBrain

My stance is this:

There can really only be one truth, right? There cannot be evolution AND a Creator. And the Bible can only have one true interpretation, right? Well, how do people know what is the correct interpretation? I know there is a verse in it that says that the scriptures are not of any private interpretation...I found it. It says:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

So, how do we know exactly what the correct meaning is?

El_Kabong

ForestBrain wrote:

My stance is this:

There can really only be one truth, right? There cannot be evolution AND a Creator. And the Bible can only have one true interpretation, right? Well, how do people know what is the correct interpretation? I know there is a verse in it that says that the scriptures are not of any private interpretation...I found it. It says:
"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation; for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

So, how do we know exactly what the correct meaning is?

indeed, look at all the different versions of the christian bible. king james changed things like 'rape' to 'lie with'....kinda 2 different meanings

did god make a typo and then many years later catch it and tell king james???

Collin

chopitdown wrote:

what about them...the only place in christian circles that you'll hear support for them is in their church. They've been condemned by everyone but themselves.

It's interesting to debate the different points of denominations. But sleightofjeff nailed it perfectly when he talked about the basic christiandom beliefs

Well if the westboro baptist church complies with these basics, then they're just christians like the other christians, right?

But apparently they've been condemned by everyone else. Why? Is it because they spread hatred? Why can't that be the message of the bible? That's how they interpret the bible, they support their claims with bible quotes and passages. How is this different than another denominations?

ForestBrain

El_Kabong wrote:

indeed, look at all the different versions of the christian bible. king james changed things like 'rape' to 'lie with'....kinda 2 different meanings

did god make a typo and then many years later catch it and tell king james???

I've actually done a lot of research on Bible versions, and the KJV wasn't translated wrong. What happened is that King James spoke old English, because, well, that was the language then, and when he translated, that's what he used. I've learned some Spanish, and I understand how this happened because "Como este" means "how are you?" but "como" as a word means "how" and "este" means "this one".
But anyway, the other versions had to be changed because of copyright issues. I myself have to look into things and know the truth of matters because I don't want to believe something that isn't the truth, which is why I've done so much research. I think, if anybody feels the same way, a good, good book to read is "New Age Bible Versions" by Gail Riplinger. The woman is a genius and she spent years in college and did a freakishly large amount of research. I just think people should look at all sides and not just listen to one, because I've heard the argument that the KJV was translated wrong so many times, but it wasn't.

Collin

ForestBrain wrote:

I've actually done a lot of research on Bible versions, and the KJV wasn't translated wrong. What happened is that King James spoke old English, because, well, that was the language then, and when he translated, that's what he used. I've learned some Spanish, and I understand how this happened because "Como este" means "how are you?" but "como" as a word means "how" and "este" means "this one".
But anyway, the other versions had to be changed because of copyright issues. I myself have to look into things and know the truth of matters because I don't want to believe something that isn't the truth, which is why I've done so much research. I think, if anybody feels the same way, a good, good book to read is "New Age Bible Versions" by Gail Riplinger. The woman is a genius and she spent years in college and did a freakishly large amount of research. I just think people should look at all sides and not just listen to one, because I've heard the argument that the KJV was translated wrong so many times, but it wasn't.

You could debate a whole lot about the translation of the bible. The truth is only the original bible would actually be the word of god if you believe that sort of stuff. A translation is a not the same as the original, especially if you think about the context (time, place...) in which the books of the bible were written.

It's a catch 22, really. If the bible is the divine word of god, which one must assume if he wants to translate the bible, deviation from the original means deviation from god's word. But translating the bible literally, word for word, would only produce incomprehensible gibberish.

This problem cannot be solved or avoided, it's been the same since Jerome's vulgate, editio vulgata and it will always remain.

Jerome opted to not translate word for word but rather "concept for concept" (semantic translation). That method is subjective, however.

decides2dream

DixieN wrote:

I read an article in Newsweek about Americans and their church changing ways. It's not surprising in a country where we also have a divorce rate of greater than 50% that we aren't going to stick with one church for most of our lives. Americans don't do commitment really, really well, for better and worse, richer and poorer.

i think this statement holds true for people in general, not just americans. i could argue the whole 'commitment' thing, but i won't...since that's not what this thread is about.


that said, while i am not religious and only enter churches for weddings/funerals/baptisms and to take architecture pics .....i DO know my sister and her ex husband had done 'church shopping.' they both came from christian faiths, but different denominations, also moved to a new city/state after they married.....so definitely went around and 'tried out' different churches until they found one that fit them just right. i think for those inclined, it makes SENSE. a church should be more than a house of worship, but also a place of community and outreach...and charity. i know my sister and her husband were VERY active in their church outside of services, doing volunter work, etc. if one is religious, i totally see looking for a pastor, a community, a branch of faith that 'fits.' especially nowadays with some many mixed-faith marriages, people who move around a lot, etc....i can see trying different churches out.

ForestBrain

Collin wrote:

You could debate a whole lot about the translation of the bible. The truth is only the original bible would actually be the word of god if you believe that sort of stuff. A translation is a not the same as the original, especially if you think about the context (time, place...) in which the books of the bible were written.

It's a catch 22, really. If the bible is the divine word of god, which one must assume if he wants to translate the bible, deviation from the original means deviation from god's word. But translating the bible literally, word for word, would only produce incomprehensible gibberish.

This problem cannot be solved or avoided, it's been the same since Jerome's vulgate, editio vulgata and it will always remain.

Jerome opted to not translate word for word but rather "concept for concept" (semantic translation). That method is subjective, however.

And that is exactly why one must buy a concordance. To look up what the words mean exactly. It makes sense then.

Collin

ForestBrain wrote:

And that is exactly why one must buy a concordance. To look up what the words mean exactly. It makes sense then.

It would give you a better idea, yes.

chopitdown

Collin wrote:

Well if the westboro baptist church complies with these basics, then they're just christians like the other christians, right?

But apparently they've been condemned by everyone else. Why? Is it because they spread hatred? Why can't that be the message of the bible? That's how they interpret the bible, they support their claims with bible quotes and passages. How is this different than another denominations?

yes, if they comply with the basics tenants then they are Christians; however, one would look at actions and have to wonder. The 2 greatest commandments in the new testament from Jesus are...love the Lord with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Also, in John it says A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." using those verses as a base, one could conclude the outward actions of westboro are NOT indicative of a changed heart, or a heart that seeks after Christ.

Grasshopper

One always finds what he is looking for in the bible. It really all depends on the intention you have for reading it...

you are

Collin wrote:

Well if the westboro baptist church complies with these basics, then they're just christians like the other christians, right?

But apparently they've been condemned by everyone else. Why? Is it because they spread hatred? Why can't that be the message of the bible? That's how they interpret the bible, they support their claims with bible quotes and passages. How is this different than another denominations?

good question. they may have the Jesus dying on the cross and being their savior thing, but the Bible also says that if you don't have love then you are just noise. it may not say it in those exact words, but you get the idea. without love you're nothing. 1 Corinthians 13 talks about it. and even Jesus said that the greatest commandments are loving the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself....obviously westboro baptist is not acting in love.

in my opinion we'll never know the exact truth of anything. when it comes to the Bible, i believe it is inspired by God, and i know it has mistakes. i happen to go to a church where the Pastor is a 'nerd' . when he preaches, he gives us different interpretations and a history lesson of that particular subject. for me that's perfect and honestly it's hard to listen to anyone else speak.

anyway, just because i'm a Christian it doesn't mean that i don't have lots of questions too. i research all kinds of things from reincarnation to aliens....a lot of people complain about Christians being stubborn and walking around with blinders on and that's actually one of my complaints too. anyway, now i feel like i'm babbling. my point is, i have questions too, but when i was 18 i had an amazing realization and it changed my life. it didn't give me all the answers, but my experience is knowing that Jesus is real, even if i question all kinds of other things. but everyone has a different experience so therefore each and every person has a different view on what truth is.