You dismissed carbon dating, so I can assume you'd dismiss it as proof of how old the earth is, right?
Either way, you're right, it wasn't about the age of the earth, you were talking about how long humans have existed. So forget my previous post.
I still don't see how you can say Vedder is completely wrong. Do you have anything to back up that claim?
And the clock analogy still works, I think. You claim there's no real proof that humans have existed longer than 7000 years, the entire scientific community on the other hand claims there is proof viz. fossil records, chemical residues, etc. which they dated with radiometric dating methods.
What's your theory? Where do you get that number, 7000? Where's the hard evidence that proves Vedder (or the entire scientific community) completely wrong?
Well, I don't mean to dismiss carbon dating all together. I was just pointing out the irony. His point was based on the same kind of point he was arguing against. It folds in on itself. Personally, I'm not too concerned with how long anything has been here. That is not a needed piece of information for me.
This will not be a good answer for many people, but the truth of the Bible has been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have lived it, I have felt it, I have seen it. It is rock solid. ...now we're getting on the slippery slope of faith. Once the bible has been proven to you as being the word of God, you can trust it when it says we are the children of Adam, who lived a little over 6,000 years ago. It is all chronicled in the Bible. I know I can believe the Bible because of the massive truths it has told me about our day today. Things no man could have conjured up.
the entire scientific community on the other hand claims there is proof viz. fossil records, chemical residues, etc. which they dated with radiometric dating methods.
These are people of which whom the overwhelming majority work to disprove the existence of God anyway. People who go after what they want regardless of the truths they throw to the side. How do they back up their claims? They run the numbers until they get the ones their looking for.
But we should be careful. I certainly don't want to get into a faith based argument. No one wins those.
Revelation is the key point that proves the bible to me. I shudder by bringing it up because I know everyone's opinion of what is in Revelation. But if you read it closely, it is very easy to understand and there aren't dozens of ways to interpret it like everyone would have you believe. You must use the entire Bible. You must understand the old Jewish thrones and temples and alters because all of Revelation is using those terms in a new light. Even the Beasts. Everyone argues what the beasts must mean but it tells you flat out in the book! They mean governments and they fit the descriptions strikingly. Obviously far to deep to get into here, but I bring it up because it is a basis of proof.
Well, I don't mean to dismiss carbon dating all together. I was just pointing out the irony. His point was based on the same kind of point he was arguing against. It folds in on itself. Personally, I'm not too concerned with how long anything has been here. That is not a needed piece of information for me.
This will not be a good answer for many people, but the truth of the Bible has been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have lived it, I have felt it, I have seen it. It is rock solid. ...now we're getting on the slippery slope of faith. Once the bible has been proven to you as being the word of God, you can trust it when it says we are the children of Adam, who lived a little over 6,000 years ago. It is all chronicled in the Bible. I know I can believe the Bible because of the massive truths it has told me about our day today. Things no man could have conjured up.
I don't think it's so ironic.
And I cannot believe in what you believe and I don't think that's necessary either, everyone has their own beliefs and as long as you're not hurting anyone it's all good.
But I do have a 'problem' with people trying to pass this whole bible study thing off as science.
These are people of which whom the overwhelming majority work to disprove the existence of God anyway. People who go after what they want regardless of the truths they throw to the side. How do they back up their claims? They run the numbers until they get the ones their looking for.
That's simply not true. Sure, there may be some, but it's a small minority. I don't know where you got that, my friend.
...
You sound more like a follower of Christ... than a Christian. In that, you are taking on Christ's teaching yourself... instead of having some dude in a robe tell you what Jesus said and make his interpretations.
The only thing i have against religion... it's not for me.
THAT is what a Christian is suppose to be; a follower of Christ not a club member which is why so many people are turned off by religion because very often it is just a club and a lot of people get that all messed up with anything that Jesus came to tell us. One of them is that we don't need a priest to intercede for us after His death and reserrection. We are to go directly to God for our own needs and we also can ask Jesus to help us but as for praying to all of the dead people, declared "saint" or not we are not to do that. And He also calls everyone who is a follower a "saint".
Baby, You Wouldn't Last a Minute on The Creek......
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
If I understand what you are saying correctly, then, Thank you. Yes, I have yet to see a guy in a robe (at least in this era) have anything of value fall out of his mouth.
And I just wanted to add that that quote from Eddie is, well...he is completely wrong. Ironically, the only thing that suggests that humans have existed more than 7000 years or so is carbon dating. Let's say that room he is talking about is these 7000 years, well, the concept of carbon dating has only been known to us for that 1/8 of an inch. And here is what we know of carbon: When we watch it's reaction to it's environment, it decays at a certain rate. So we take the rate we measured for a few years of study (even less than that 1/8 of an inch) and we see a speed of decay and we say well, this is the speed of carbonic decay so let's apply this formula to everything. The fullness of understanding the entire process carbon goes through is beyond our grasp. We are babes.
Here is the irony, Eddie condemns the Bible because it supposedly only existed for this relative small period of time (which carries no real weight anyway). But the foundation for his argument is based on a science that has only been touched on or supposedly understood for a relative small period of time.
Ed was completely right. He said humans in some shape or form, not necessarily homo sapiens.
Comments
This will not be a good answer for many people, but the truth of the Bible has been proven to me beyond a shadow of a doubt. I have lived it, I have felt it, I have seen it. It is rock solid. ...now we're getting on the slippery slope of faith. Once the bible has been proven to you as being the word of God, you can trust it when it says we are the children of Adam, who lived a little over 6,000 years ago. It is all chronicled in the Bible. I know I can believe the Bible because of the massive truths it has told me about our day today. Things no man could have conjured up.
These are people of which whom the overwhelming majority work to disprove the existence of God anyway. People who go after what they want regardless of the truths they throw to the side. How do they back up their claims? They run the numbers until they get the ones their looking for.
But we should be careful. I certainly don't want to get into a faith based argument. No one wins those.
Revelation is the key point that proves the bible to me. I shudder by bringing it up because I know everyone's opinion of what is in Revelation. But if you read it closely, it is very easy to understand and there aren't dozens of ways to interpret it like everyone would have you believe. You must use the entire Bible. You must understand the old Jewish thrones and temples and alters because all of Revelation is using those terms in a new light. Even the Beasts. Everyone argues what the beasts must mean but it tells you flat out in the book! They mean governments and they fit the descriptions strikingly. Obviously far to deep to get into here, but I bring it up because it is a basis of proof.
I don't think it's so ironic.
And I cannot believe in what you believe and I don't think that's necessary either, everyone has their own beliefs and as long as you're not hurting anyone it's all good.
But I do have a 'problem' with people trying to pass this whole bible study thing off as science.
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That's simply not true. Sure, there may be some, but it's a small minority. I don't know where you got that, my friend.
naděje umírá poslední
THAT is what a Christian is suppose to be; a follower of Christ not a club member which is why so many people are turned off by religion because very often it is just a club and a lot of people get that all messed up with anything that Jesus came to tell us. One of them is that we don't need a priest to intercede for us after His death and reserrection. We are to go directly to God for our own needs and we also can ask Jesus to help us but as for praying to all of the dead people, declared "saint" or not we are not to do that. And He also calls everyone who is a follower a "saint".
Together we will float like angels.........
In the moment that you left the room, the album started skipping, goodbye to beauty shared with the ones that you love.........
Ed was completely right. He said humans in some shape or form, not necessarily homo sapiens.
http://anthropology.si.edu/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html
Great question Eddie, keep thinking about it!
Guys, I just want to say: I love these forums. It's great that we can debate here without arguing. I appreciate your level of respect.