And in locations where they have both more power to them but what about in areas where all there is is a Wal Mart. There are plenty of areas in this country where all the jobs have dried up and the only source of employment is a Wal-Mart. Trust me I commend the company for going into these areas and at least providing a source of revenue for these people. Without that store they would have no work at all, but that still doesn't mean that they should pay these people less or offer them less health coverage simply because they are the only source of employment.
As for the customer service I don't know. I can honestly say that I have never stepped foot in a Wal Mart, not because i think they are evil, but because I love Target. I am a certified Target junky and have heard from several people that the quality of their goods is far superior to WalMarts.
They don't have Target in Canada, but I have been to quite a few in the US and the level of customer service, not to mention the cleanliness and orginization of the store, seem quite higher than in any Canadian or US walmart. Target obviouly sees value in hiring people with higher skills, which to me deserves more money. So if walmart raises their wages to match Target, how much should Target raise their wages, to maintain their higher skilled workforce?
Who makes higher profits? WalMart or Taget AND Costco combined?
I
It doesn't make logical sense that a cost increase will increase their profits, and therefore make them more competitive... they are already wiping the floor with the competition.
Walmart is a lot larger than target and Costco so you can't look at profits, you have to look at percentages.
We see this issue differently and I grow tired of discussing this as you have shown to have zero flexability when discussing a topic. Why bother engaging in a discussion with someone who really doesn't care to hear others opinions.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
They don't have Target in Canada, but I have been to quite a few in the US and the level of customer service, not to mention the cleanliness and orginization of the store, seem quite higher than in any Canadian or US walmart. Target obviouly sees value in hiring people with higher skills, which to me deserves more money. So if walmart raises their wages to match Target, how much should Target raise their wages, to maintain their higher skilled workforce?
Well that would be up to Target. They would have to decide what the best approach would be to maintaining their skilled workforce while balancing profits. Raising wages may not even be necessary. they could compensate their employees in other ways, offering management training to make advancement in the company easier as an example.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
We see this issue differently and I grow tired of discussing this as you have shown to have zero flexability when discussing a topic. Why bother engaging in a discussion with someone who really doesn't care to hear others opinions.
You aren't being flexible either. I was simply commenting on something you said, that appeared to me to not be even slightly related to a free-market ideology. That was my opinion and I stated it. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear other peoples opinions.
You aren't being flexible either. I was simply commenting on something you said, that appeared to me to not be even slightly related to a free-market ideology. That was my opinion and I stated it. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear other peoples opinions.
What ever you say boss.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Marketshare by definition is what one looks at when determining it's competitiveness.
Yes market share is important to determine competitiveness but not profitability, which is what you where discussing. You specifically asked who makes higher profits and I told you that WalMart does but that is not a proper way to gauge them because Walmart is far larger than Target or Costco. Market share has little impact on profit as you can have a higher market share but a lower profit margin than your competitors. If you want to compare them correctly you need to look at their profit margin, not their total profit or their market share.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
this is hypocrisy of wal-mart ... people here in n. america want good paying jobs paying fair wages for their efforts but yet shop at wal mart where people are not getting paid "fair" wages ...
take the auto sector - those guys that work for the big 3 want good paying jobs yet they aren't willing to pay a few dollars more to offer someone else that same opportunity to make plates, clothes or knapsacks ...
everything is interconnected ... you might think getting your stuff at the cheapest possible price is the only thing that matters but it has a consequence and you are seeing that now ... no manufacturing jobs, economic crisis, etc
excellent post !! i just wish more people would realize this
Oil is formed by the earth naturally. It's not destructive at all.
I do agree that we import oil from a number of countries with bad people and bad intentions towards America. That said, we have oil in America. While we are working on a new energy source, it would be wise to use a portion of what we have... atleast when prices are high abroad.
I can see oil being volatile, maybe even going back above $100 for next year's memorial day. However, I don't see it averaging even close to what it's averaged annually again.... anytime soon. We're in a global recession, demand has retrenched.
I'm not a fan of big oil at all, but I'm a fan of being fairminded. I'm simply not a fan of having to pay extra at the pump. And yes, I'm not a fan of more taxes either.
I think the media isn't playing the "evil oil" card right now because prices are low. The fact that prices are low and the fact that they have dropped significantly shows that supply and demand really set the prices. It's not big oil execs sitting in a room saying to one another "let's F them for some more loot". That's simplisitic and naive, but the media plays that story up all the time. Why aren't they playing up the reverse angle now? Hmmm.
well from my drivers seat I still see the same amount of traffic on the road. So please tell me Where demand has dropped.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Yes market share is important to determine competitiveness but not profitability, which is what you where discussing. You specifically asked who makes higher profits and I told you that WalMart does but that is not a proper way to gauge them because Walmart is far larger than Target or Costco. Market share has little impact on profit as you can have a higher market share but a lower profit margin than your competitors. If you want to compare them correctly you need to look at their profit margin, not their total profit or their market share.
Profits are revenue less cost. Market share is one firms revenue vs. all other firms in the industry's revenue. Market share has an enormous impact on profit..... you are talking about "margins".
And I completely disagree, to compare on the subject of competitiveness, one should look at market share and profits. Profit margins are rarlely used to compare different organizations. They are used for internal comparisons.
well from my drivers seat I still see the same amount of traffic on the road. So please tell me Where demand has dropped.
First, less people are driving and more are using public transit.
Second, ever hear of the term GDP? It's not only plummeting in the U.S., it's plummeting in the world. Production uses oil. Since, world production is plummeting, demand for oil is plummeting.
Profits are revenue less cost. Market share is one firms revenue vs. all other firms in the industry's revenue. Market share has an enormous impact on profit..... you are talking about "margins".
And I completely disagree, to compare on the subject of competitiveness, one should look at market share and profits. Profit margins are rarlely used to compare different organizations. They are used for internal comparisons.
You can still have a lion's share of the market but turn less of a profit than your competitors because you have exponentially high costs associated with running your business. So while WalMart definitely has a larger profit total and a larger market share that does not necessarily mean that they would be more profitable than say Target or Costco. I don't know what there numbers are but let's say Walmart has 45% of the market share while Target only has 20%. Walmart may only generate a 15% profit while Target generates 25% (these numbers are completely arbitrary). In the end Walmart would generate more profit because of their size but based on profit margin Target would be the more profitable company.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
You can still have a lion's share of the market but turn less of a profit than your competitors because you have exponentially high costs associated with running your business. So while WalMart definitely has a larger profit total and a larger market share that does not necessarily mean that they would be more profitable than say Target or Costco. I don't know what there numbers are but let's say Walmart has 45% of the market share while Target only has 20%. Walmart may only generate a 15% profit while Target generates 25% (these numbers are completely arbitrary). In the end Walmart would generate more profit because of their size but based on profit margin Target would be the more profitable company.
Like I said, firms don't use profit margins for comparisons. But, even if they did, WalMart could eat into Target's (fictional) higher profit margin by lowering prices and using its economies of scale.
I'm willing to bet WalMart is gaining more and more market share as they increase their relative revenues. Although if that is the case, I would say they are doing it very slowly.... probably because they don't want to get too big so that the gov't looks into antitrust ect.
Like I said, firms don't use profit margins for comparisons. But, even if they did, WalMart could eat into Target's (fictional) higher profit margin by lowering prices and using its economies of scale.
I'm willing to bet WalMart is gaining more and more market share as they increase their relative revenues. Although if that is the case, I would say they are doing it very slowly.... probably because they don't want to get too big so that the gov't looks into antitrust ect.
WalMart is definitely gaining more Market Share, I'm not arguing that. That is why I think target has shifted their marketing plan to attract a different demographic. While WalMart generally speaking targets you mid-lower middle class families and and your lower class families, target has refocused and is trying to attract your mid-upper middle class families. On a price scale they can be somewhat competitive with WalMart but can never beat them.
back to the original point of the thread. I am not stating, or even insinuating that the government should raise minimum wages or force WalMart to do so. I am merely stating that it would be nice to see WalMart pay better wages, since they do pay less than their competition, and/or offer better benefits.
As Kal mentioned that Target, from his experience, has a far better trained and more attentive work force than WalMart and this could be why they pay less. The argument could be made that they lack in customer service and professionalism because they pay less. Target manages to stay competitive while paying employees better and offering better perks. So it is not unthinkable to say that WalMart could do the same and still remain competitive and still have low prices.
One of the things I have learned about, working in advertising and marketing, is brand loyalty. Target has a strong following because of brand loyalty. I, for example, like to shop at Target because I like their prices, the selection and quality of the goods they offer, the level of professionalism from their employees, the manner in which the corporation deals with it's employees and their community efforts. These aspects instill in me, as a consumer, a sense of loyalty to the brand. WalMart, through market research studies, does not generate that same brand loyalty. Most people shop at WalMart because financially they have to or because it is the only place in the area. Where I live the closest Target is about a 20-25 minute drive but there is a WalMart about 10 minutes away. I will not go to that WalMart because I do not approve of their below market wages and poor benefits. Now I know WalMart doesn't care about what I think but studies have shown that consumers, if given the choice based on local and financial ability, will choose the brand they find more desirable over the one that is cheaper. This is something for WalMart to think about.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
I have not shopped at Wal Mart in well over 4 years. I encourage everyone I know that shops there to stop and give them reasons to not shop there. Most people don't understand that the reason they can offer low prices is because a)they bully companies into setting prices below their cost because they are so big and,B) because they don't offer health care benefits so the extra money you "save" while shopping there is paid back when you pay your taxes to help with medical bills of their workers
I live near the home of Rubbermaid products. They are a American based company that employs American workers and gives them benefits and decent pay. Regardless of what you think about the working class, we all benefit from a company that gives their employees health benefits and decent wages. They now can buy our products or services- it's that simple.
Wal-Mart decided that they were going to drop all Rubbermaid products if they did not reduce the price of their items- they did not even offer the change for Rubbermaid to sell their products as a higher quality, more pricey substitute than the cheap brands Wal-Mart specializes in. (These figures are made up b/c I can't remember the exacts b/c I studies this case 4 years ago in college). They said to Rubbermaid that if you want us to sell Product A, you have to sell it to us for $2 for each unit- Product A cost Rubbermaid $3 to produce each unit. Rubbermaid had to decide a)cut the wages or benefits of workers that have worked there or B)cut off their largest buyer of their products, which would shut down their business and cripple and American town (Wooster,Ohio) that depends of Rubbermaid to pay taxes to support their families, schools, police force--everything.
Americans now than ever need to understand this kind of stuff when it comes buy to buy something. I know it's easy to just buy the cheapest product available to you, but if you help these American companies it ultimately helps you much more than you think. Companies like Rubbermaid, Ford and GM all pay your friends, neighbors and fellow Americans decent wages and benefits which helps YOU out because you are not stuck paying taxes to help them when they no longer have jobs. Thriving American business helps build our schools and infrastructure that help us live the lives we are able to live in America.
Realize that when you buy something foreign, you might save a little now- but you are killing the future of living in this country.
I live near the home of Rubbermaid products. They are a American based company that employs American workers and gives them benefits and decent pay. Regardless of what you think about the working class, we all benefit from a company that gives their employees health benefits and decent wages. They now can buy our products or services- it's that simple.
Wal-Mart decided that they were going to drop all Rubbermaid products if they did not reduce the price of their items- they did not even offer the change for Rubbermaid to sell their products as a higher quality, more pricey substitute than the cheap brands Wal-Mart specializes in. (These figures are made up b/c I can't remember the exacts b/c I studies this case 4 years ago in college). They said to Rubbermaid that if you want us to sell Product A, you have to sell it to us for $2 for each unit- Product A cost Rubbermaid $3 to produce each unit. Rubbermaid had to decide a)cut the wages or benefits of workers that have worked there or B)cut off their largest buyer of their products, which would shut down their business and cripple and American town (Wooster,Ohio) that depends of Rubbermaid to pay taxes to support their families, schools, police force--everything.
Americans now than ever need to understand this kind of stuff when it comes buy to buy something. I know it's easy to just buy the cheapest product available to you, but if you help these American companies it ultimately helps you much more than you think. Companies like Rubbermaid, Ford and GM all pay your friends, neighbors and fellow Americans decent wages and benefits which helps YOU out because you are not stuck paying taxes to help them when they no longer have jobs. Thriving American business helps build our schools and infrastructure that help us live the lives we are able to live in America.
Realize that when you buy something foreign, you might save a little now- but you are killing the future of living in this country.
As we evolve and change and the world shifts and rebalances energy, it's not certain that we ultimately gain more benefit by a company like rubbermaid. Granted, we have a 'story' we tell ourselves that says this based on our 'ideas' of what is best. Our ideas are based on conditioning, and not based on actual current perception of all the variables in the current moment. When we let go of our preconceptions, sometimes it opens people up to their attunement with what's going on, and their inner visions of a better way that have been evolutionarily planted within...for individual employees, especially. A short term fix, such as making sure individuals are paid their factory wages and have money in the now, to spend, doesn't automatically say to me that it's the best overall solution. Even for the employee themselves, who often is worth FAR more than they realize, or than their employer would consider paying.
When we decide, and keep our 'stories' going, based on our PAST, and on conditioning, and our logic (which is based on our conditioning), we are then not living in synch with our potential which comes forth from within in each moment. 98% of the population is not living from a place of potential...not because they can't, but rather because they are caught in their "story" and out of touch with who they are and beyond what they can really do.
I'd like to see people open to this concept! And realize there is soo much more each and every one can do beyond what we 'think' we can.
The bottom line is that beyond our ideas, thoughts and "stories"...life, evolution and the natural sways and adaptations of energies will be what they are. No matter what we tell ourselves about such happenings.. ie: "this is bad"...or "this is bad for us"... As long as we continue to attempt to control these natural forces, rather than work with them, the more we perpetuate the fallacy of these 'stories', and contribute to our own disconnection, and to our personal and national imbalances. All the while the universe is in perfect order, despite our adamance otherwise.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
As we evolve and change and the world shifts and rebalances energy, it's not certain that we ultimately gain more benefit by a company like rubbermaid. Granted, we have a 'story' we tell ourselves that says this based on our 'ideas' of what is best. Our ideas are based on conditioning, and not based on actual current perception of all the variables in the current moment. When we let go of our preconceptions, sometimes it opens people up to their attunement with what's going on, and their inner visions of a better way that have been evolutionarily planted within...for individual employees, especially. A short term fix, such as making sure individuals are paid their factory wages and have money in the now, to spend, doesn't automatically say to me that it's the best overall solution. Even for the employee themselves, who often is worth FAR more than they realize, or than their employer would consider paying.
When we decide, and keep our 'stories' going, based on our PAST, and on conditioning, and our logic (which is based on our conditioning), we are then not living in synch with our potential which comes forth from within in each moment. 98% of the population is not living from a place of potential...not because they can't, but rather because they are caught in their "story" and out of touch with who they are and beyond what they can really do.
I'd like to see people open to this concept! And realize there is soo much more each and every one can do beyond what we 'think' we can.
The bottom line is that beyond our ideas, thoughts and "stories"...life, evolution and the natural sways and adaptations of energies will be what they are. No matter what we tell ourselves about such happenings.. ie: "this is bad"...or "this is bad for us"... As long as we continue to attempt to control these natural forces, rather than work with them, the more we perpetuate the fallacy of these 'stories', and contribute to our own disconnection, and to our personal and national imbalances. All the while the universe is in perfect order, despite our adamance otherwise.
But you do understand that the only chance we have to reduce our National debt is to increase our national GDP and as long as we see American companies go under, there is not a chance in hell we will increase our GDP, let alone increase it enough to start reducing our debt.
The scary thing is that our debt is no different than someone's own personal debt; sooner or later it will drowned you and sink your personal freedom. Taking money from China isn't going to help our country, and when it comes time to buy something, buying Japanese or Chinese when there is American substitutes isn't going to help either.
But you do understand that the only chance we have to reduce our National debt is to increase our national GDP and as long as we see American companies go under, there is not a chance in hell we will increase our GDP, let alone increase it enough to start reducing our debt.
The scary thing is that our debt is no different than someone's own personal debt; sooner or later it will drowned you and sink your personal freedom. Taking money from China isn't going to help our country, and when it comes time to buy something, buying Japanese or Chinese when there is American substitutes isn't going to help either.
Structures built on faulty foundations will fall. That's just the way it is. The more we scramble to keep people towing the line, and to keep these faulty structures in place, even when evolutionary forces are moving in another direction the more we reveal that we are out of touch with our own authentic power -- our potential.
I love human beings. I love the human potential and the human spirit. Beneath our stories, we do know what we are capable of. All we need is to see the potential avenues we've not yet been exposed to! We do move towards progress, even though it's sometimes two steps forward, one step back.
I'm for giving people choices! I'm for opening people up to what they are capable of. I'm for exposing people to the unknown that is behind the false structures we've come to depend upon! What is beyond the fear? What is beyond the imbalance?
The fact of the matter is the false structures are going....we can adapt or maladapt.
I do commend anyone who is well intended, and seeking resolution..and who cares for others. I LOVE to see others who are doing what they can to move in the right direction. Some ways are just MUCH, MUCH more powerful, efficient and Much more effective.
Peace.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Structures built on faulty foundations will fall. That's just the way it is. The more we scramble to keep people towing the line, and to keep these faulty structures in place, even when evolutionary forces are moving in another direction the more we reveal that we are out of touch with our own authentic power -- our potential.
I love human beings. I love the human potential and the human spirit. Beneath our stories, we do know what we are capable of. All we need is to see the potential avenues we've not yet been exposed to! We do move towards progress, even though it's sometimes two steps forward, one step back.
I'm for giving people choices! I'm for opening people up to what they are capable of. I'm for exposing people to the unknown that is behind the false structures we've come to depend upon! What is beyond the fear? What is beyond the imbalance?
The fact of the matter is the false structures are going....we can adapt or maladapt.
I do commend anyone who is well intended, and seeking resolution..and who cares for others. I LOVE to see others who are doing what they can to move in the right direction. Some ways are just MUCH, MUCH more powerful, efficient and Much more effective.
Peace.
So your saying that instead of trying to prevent these companies from going under or overseas we should just accept this as inevitable. That sounds fine and all in an academic sense but in the real world there are real consequences to these actions. People loose jobs, can't pay their bills, kids go hungry, kids educations suffer because the financial means to pursue a higher education are no longer there. The strains break families up.
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
So your saying that instead of trying to prevent these companies from going under or overseas we should just accept this as inevitable. That sounds fine and all in an academic sense but in the real world there are real consequences to these actions. People loose jobs, can't pay their bills, kids go hungry, kids educations suffer because the financial means to pursue a higher education are no longer there. The strains break families up.
What I do suggest is that people let go of preconceptions. And focus within. And when one is attuned to life principles from within, in an evolutionarily sound way, they see options of resolution, growth and expansion. And in other circumstances, people recognize it is time to weed out what is not working so as to allow movement and expansion. People are empowered to live authentically from within, and attuned without. In this way, people operate from their place of TRUE POWER...this entails finding the solutions to the problems before them.
For some that may mean keeping their job or finding ways to keep the plant open. For others it may mean starting their own business, or re-educating, whether by formal or self-education. I merely provide an option to thunderDAN's view that it is across the board beneficial to keep one American plant open, when there are myriad other options beyond that particular story (and given the validity of that story as well). There is not an objective across the board solution. It's about being awake in the MOMENT and assessing the variables. It is the opposite of inheriting conditioning-based thought processes and stories, or keeping those thought processes and stories alive when they are inconsistent with what is happening.
You or thunderDAN, being 100% authentic to yourselves may have an entirely different approach than I would! And it's all good! All avenues are kept open! All possibilities!
We can follow our own inner vision--the messages evolution has planted in our breasts. This is beyond living the stories that were handed to us and which at heart are inconsistent with who we are. We have the ability to adapt to who we are, rather than maladapt and cling to a story that is inconsistent with our very core being.
When we are adapting evolutionarily, we get the results we seek -- life responds appropriately. When we maladapt, we do not.
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
The bottom line is..in the real world...when that plant closes....when we lose that job...it is what it is. When people shop at Wal-Mart in droves, that is what it is. Even when we tell ourselves stories that say it "should" be otherwise.
We all can win. We can all master evolutionary forces. For example, Wal-Mart obviously adapts and continues to grow and expand at an alarming rate. Even with questionable practices. There are ways to use the same principles to do so, and to do so with more life-serving practises (and yes, with probably less profit...but when one is coming from a mindset that cares about treating one's employees very well, that is fully embraced).
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
I live near the home of Rubbermaid products. They are a American based company that employs American workers and gives them benefits and decent pay. Regardless of what you think about the working class, we all benefit from a company that gives their employees health benefits and decent wages. They now can buy our products or services- it's that simple.
Wal-Mart decided that they were going to drop all Rubbermaid products if they did not reduce the price of their items- they did not even offer the change for Rubbermaid to sell their products as a higher quality, more pricey substitute than the cheap brands Wal-Mart specializes in. (These figures are made up b/c I can't remember the exacts b/c I studies this case 4 years ago in college). They said to Rubbermaid that if you want us to sell Product A, you have to sell it to us for $2 for each unit- Product A cost Rubbermaid $3 to produce each unit. Rubbermaid had to decide a)cut the wages or benefits of workers that have worked there or B)cut off their largest buyer of their products, which would shut down their business and cripple and American town (Wooster,Ohio) that depends of Rubbermaid to pay taxes to support their families, schools, police force--everything.
Americans now than ever need to understand this kind of stuff when it comes buy to buy something. I know it's easy to just buy the cheapest product available to you, but if you help these American companies it ultimately helps you much more than you think. Companies like Rubbermaid, Ford and GM all pay your friends, neighbors and fellow Americans decent wages and benefits which helps YOU out because you are not stuck paying taxes to help them when they no longer have jobs. Thriving American business helps build our schools and infrastructure that help us live the lives we are able to live in America.
Realize that when you buy something foreign, you might save a little now- but you are killing the future of living in this country.
Not necessarily. We can consumer foreign products and reap benefits too. It's comparative advantage. Certain areas are more able to produce certain goods and service due to thier cost structure, regulation and environment.
I'm not saying you are advocating protectionism. Instead, it appears that you are advising one to consider the products they choose to buy... which is undoubtably a good thing. But, if you did think we should stop selling foreign goods... I think that would cause a multitude of problems.
The irony here is that free trade is not a zero sum game. All benefit. That said, I agree that the consumer should certainly make a sound decision when consuming... but, it's their decision alone. Meanwhile, producers should make sound decisions, but once again, it's their decision. If WalMart wants to cut Rubbermaid products because they cost too much.... there's probably a reaon. Most likely, Rubbermaids products cost more than a competitor. I can see why WalMart would cut the product if Rubbermaid wont budge on it's price. Not saying it's a good thing for "American" jobs, but I will say that the free decision making process by all business is a good thing for "world" jobs.
Not saying it's a good thing for "American" jobs, but I will say that the free decision making process by all business is a good thing for "world" jobs.
Yes.
And, again, it's our personal story, or our ideas of how things "should" be that cause us to dig in and want to protect our country, our job, our plant, etc, above trusting and adapting to the overall energies that are all around the planet, beyond borders, beyond stories.
"Each individual mind represents an infinite degree of freedom separated by Nothing but its own Perspective." ~C.C. Keiser
"The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." ~ Niels Bohr
Comments
They don't have Target in Canada, but I have been to quite a few in the US and the level of customer service, not to mention the cleanliness and orginization of the store, seem quite higher than in any Canadian or US walmart. Target obviouly sees value in hiring people with higher skills, which to me deserves more money. So if walmart raises their wages to match Target, how much should Target raise their wages, to maintain their higher skilled workforce?
Walmart is a lot larger than target and Costco so you can't look at profits, you have to look at percentages.
We see this issue differently and I grow tired of discussing this as you have shown to have zero flexability when discussing a topic. Why bother engaging in a discussion with someone who really doesn't care to hear others opinions.
Well that would be up to Target. They would have to decide what the best approach would be to maintaining their skilled workforce while balancing profits. Raising wages may not even be necessary. they could compensate their employees in other ways, offering management training to make advancement in the company easier as an example.
Marketshare by definition is what one looks at when determining it's competitiveness.
You aren't being flexible either. I was simply commenting on something you said, that appeared to me to not be even slightly related to a free-market ideology. That was my opinion and I stated it. I'm sorry if you don't like to hear other peoples opinions.
What ever you say boss.
Yes market share is important to determine competitiveness but not profitability, which is what you where discussing. You specifically asked who makes higher profits and I told you that WalMart does but that is not a proper way to gauge them because Walmart is far larger than Target or Costco. Market share has little impact on profit as you can have a higher market share but a lower profit margin than your competitors. If you want to compare them correctly you need to look at their profit margin, not their total profit or their market share.
excellent post !! i just wish more people would realize this
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Profits are revenue less cost. Market share is one firms revenue vs. all other firms in the industry's revenue. Market share has an enormous impact on profit..... you are talking about "margins".
And I completely disagree, to compare on the subject of competitiveness, one should look at market share and profits. Profit margins are rarlely used to compare different organizations. They are used for internal comparisons.
First, less people are driving and more are using public transit.
Second, ever hear of the term GDP? It's not only plummeting in the U.S., it's plummeting in the world. Production uses oil. Since, world production is plummeting, demand for oil is plummeting.
You can still have a lion's share of the market but turn less of a profit than your competitors because you have exponentially high costs associated with running your business. So while WalMart definitely has a larger profit total and a larger market share that does not necessarily mean that they would be more profitable than say Target or Costco. I don't know what there numbers are but let's say Walmart has 45% of the market share while Target only has 20%. Walmart may only generate a 15% profit while Target generates 25% (these numbers are completely arbitrary). In the end Walmart would generate more profit because of their size but based on profit margin Target would be the more profitable company.
Like I said, firms don't use profit margins for comparisons. But, even if they did, WalMart could eat into Target's (fictional) higher profit margin by lowering prices and using its economies of scale.
I'm willing to bet WalMart is gaining more and more market share as they increase their relative revenues. Although if that is the case, I would say they are doing it very slowly.... probably because they don't want to get too big so that the gov't looks into antitrust ect.
WalMart is definitely gaining more Market Share, I'm not arguing that. That is why I think target has shifted their marketing plan to attract a different demographic. While WalMart generally speaking targets you mid-lower middle class families and and your lower class families, target has refocused and is trying to attract your mid-upper middle class families. On a price scale they can be somewhat competitive with WalMart but can never beat them.
back to the original point of the thread. I am not stating, or even insinuating that the government should raise minimum wages or force WalMart to do so. I am merely stating that it would be nice to see WalMart pay better wages, since they do pay less than their competition, and/or offer better benefits.
As Kal mentioned that Target, from his experience, has a far better trained and more attentive work force than WalMart and this could be why they pay less. The argument could be made that they lack in customer service and professionalism because they pay less. Target manages to stay competitive while paying employees better and offering better perks. So it is not unthinkable to say that WalMart could do the same and still remain competitive and still have low prices.
One of the things I have learned about, working in advertising and marketing, is brand loyalty. Target has a strong following because of brand loyalty. I, for example, like to shop at Target because I like their prices, the selection and quality of the goods they offer, the level of professionalism from their employees, the manner in which the corporation deals with it's employees and their community efforts. These aspects instill in me, as a consumer, a sense of loyalty to the brand. WalMart, through market research studies, does not generate that same brand loyalty. Most people shop at WalMart because financially they have to or because it is the only place in the area. Where I live the closest Target is about a 20-25 minute drive but there is a WalMart about 10 minutes away. I will not go to that WalMart because I do not approve of their below market wages and poor benefits. Now I know WalMart doesn't care about what I think but studies have shown that consumers, if given the choice based on local and financial ability, will choose the brand they find more desirable over the one that is cheaper. This is something for WalMart to think about.
Plus, they now recruit for the Army.
Wal-Mart decided that they were going to drop all Rubbermaid products if they did not reduce the price of their items- they did not even offer the change for Rubbermaid to sell their products as a higher quality, more pricey substitute than the cheap brands Wal-Mart specializes in. (These figures are made up b/c I can't remember the exacts b/c I studies this case 4 years ago in college). They said to Rubbermaid that if you want us to sell Product A, you have to sell it to us for $2 for each unit- Product A cost Rubbermaid $3 to produce each unit. Rubbermaid had to decide a)cut the wages or benefits of workers that have worked there or B)cut off their largest buyer of their products, which would shut down their business and cripple and American town (Wooster,Ohio) that depends of Rubbermaid to pay taxes to support their families, schools, police force--everything.
Americans now than ever need to understand this kind of stuff when it comes buy to buy something. I know it's easy to just buy the cheapest product available to you, but if you help these American companies it ultimately helps you much more than you think. Companies like Rubbermaid, Ford and GM all pay your friends, neighbors and fellow Americans decent wages and benefits which helps YOU out because you are not stuck paying taxes to help them when they no longer have jobs. Thriving American business helps build our schools and infrastructure that help us live the lives we are able to live in America.
Realize that when you buy something foreign, you might save a little now- but you are killing the future of living in this country.
When we decide, and keep our 'stories' going, based on our PAST, and on conditioning, and our logic (which is based on our conditioning), we are then not living in synch with our potential which comes forth from within in each moment. 98% of the population is not living from a place of potential...not because they can't, but rather because they are caught in their "story" and out of touch with who they are and beyond what they can really do.
I'd like to see people open to this concept! And realize there is soo much more each and every one can do beyond what we 'think' we can.
The bottom line is that beyond our ideas, thoughts and "stories"...life, evolution and the natural sways and adaptations of energies will be what they are. No matter what we tell ourselves about such happenings.. ie: "this is bad"...or "this is bad for us"... As long as we continue to attempt to control these natural forces, rather than work with them, the more we perpetuate the fallacy of these 'stories', and contribute to our own disconnection, and to our personal and national imbalances. All the while the universe is in perfect order, despite our adamance otherwise.
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
But you do understand that the only chance we have to reduce our National debt is to increase our national GDP and as long as we see American companies go under, there is not a chance in hell we will increase our GDP, let alone increase it enough to start reducing our debt.
The scary thing is that our debt is no different than someone's own personal debt; sooner or later it will drowned you and sink your personal freedom. Taking money from China isn't going to help our country, and when it comes time to buy something, buying Japanese or Chinese when there is American substitutes isn't going to help either.
I love human beings. I love the human potential and the human spirit. Beneath our stories, we do know what we are capable of. All we need is to see the potential avenues we've not yet been exposed to! We do move towards progress, even though it's sometimes two steps forward, one step back.
I'm for giving people choices! I'm for opening people up to what they are capable of. I'm for exposing people to the unknown that is behind the false structures we've come to depend upon! What is beyond the fear? What is beyond the imbalance?
The fact of the matter is the false structures are going....we can adapt or maladapt.
I do commend anyone who is well intended, and seeking resolution..and who cares for others. I LOVE to see others who are doing what they can to move in the right direction. Some ways are just MUCH, MUCH more powerful, efficient and Much more effective.
Peace.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
So your saying that instead of trying to prevent these companies from going under or overseas we should just accept this as inevitable. That sounds fine and all in an academic sense but in the real world there are real consequences to these actions. People loose jobs, can't pay their bills, kids go hungry, kids educations suffer because the financial means to pursue a higher education are no longer there. The strains break families up.
What I do suggest is that people let go of preconceptions. And focus within. And when one is attuned to life principles from within, in an evolutionarily sound way, they see options of resolution, growth and expansion. And in other circumstances, people recognize it is time to weed out what is not working so as to allow movement and expansion. People are empowered to live authentically from within, and attuned without. In this way, people operate from their place of TRUE POWER...this entails finding the solutions to the problems before them.
For some that may mean keeping their job or finding ways to keep the plant open. For others it may mean starting their own business, or re-educating, whether by formal or self-education. I merely provide an option to thunderDAN's view that it is across the board beneficial to keep one American plant open, when there are myriad other options beyond that particular story (and given the validity of that story as well). There is not an objective across the board solution. It's about being awake in the MOMENT and assessing the variables. It is the opposite of inheriting conditioning-based thought processes and stories, or keeping those thought processes and stories alive when they are inconsistent with what is happening.
You or thunderDAN, being 100% authentic to yourselves may have an entirely different approach than I would! And it's all good! All avenues are kept open! All possibilities!
We can follow our own inner vision--the messages evolution has planted in our breasts. This is beyond living the stories that were handed to us and which at heart are inconsistent with who we are. We have the ability to adapt to who we are, rather than maladapt and cling to a story that is inconsistent with our very core being.
When we are adapting evolutionarily, we get the results we seek -- life responds appropriately. When we maladapt, we do not.
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
We all can win. We can all master evolutionary forces. For example, Wal-Mart obviously adapts and continues to grow and expand at an alarming rate. Even with questionable practices. There are ways to use the same principles to do so, and to do so with more life-serving practises (and yes, with probably less profit...but when one is coming from a mindset that cares about treating one's employees very well, that is fully embraced).
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Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!
Not necessarily. We can consumer foreign products and reap benefits too. It's comparative advantage. Certain areas are more able to produce certain goods and service due to thier cost structure, regulation and environment.
I'm not saying you are advocating protectionism. Instead, it appears that you are advising one to consider the products they choose to buy... which is undoubtably a good thing. But, if you did think we should stop selling foreign goods... I think that would cause a multitude of problems.
The irony here is that free trade is not a zero sum game. All benefit. That said, I agree that the consumer should certainly make a sound decision when consuming... but, it's their decision alone. Meanwhile, producers should make sound decisions, but once again, it's their decision. If WalMart wants to cut Rubbermaid products because they cost too much.... there's probably a reaon. Most likely, Rubbermaids products cost more than a competitor. I can see why WalMart would cut the product if Rubbermaid wont budge on it's price. Not saying it's a good thing for "American" jobs, but I will say that the free decision making process by all business is a good thing for "world" jobs.
And, again, it's our personal story, or our ideas of how things "should" be that cause us to dig in and want to protect our country, our job, our plant, etc, above trusting and adapting to the overall energies that are all around the planet, beyond borders, beyond stories.
"Each individual mind represents an infinite degree of freedom separated by Nothing but its own Perspective." ~C.C. Keiser
http://www.myspace.com/illuminatta
Rhinocerous Surprise '08!!!