Dems Press to Rescue Car Industry! Yea, Socialism!
saveuplife
Posts: 1,173
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1fc10c0e-ae63-11dd-b621-000077b07658.html
So, where do we draw the line? Does every industry (even one's not tied to housing or MBS) get a rescue?
So, where do we draw the line? Does every industry (even one's not tied to housing or MBS) get a rescue?
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
I would say the time to argue the finer points of our financial system would be PRIOR to or LONG AFTER an immediate crisis of liquidity and credit.
Right now, i hate to say, i think a heavily contingent bailout is probably the best course of action.
I would like to see that cash burn rate for GM come WAY down though.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
It's a matter of opinion. But, IMHO this is an enormous mistake. The automobile industry will continue to struggle regardless of a bailout. Demand is down and will remain down. A bailout won't help that. Cost cutting will. That's life in business.
The question remains.... where is the line drawn? Or do we bail out every single industry during recessions from here on out?
We really are creeping more and more towards socialism.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
You mean like laying off 2.5 million employees? And from where do you think they will receive their unemployment checks?
Uhmm...oh yeah, huh?
This is what happens when corporations keep their factories in the United States. Their costs eventually exceed their revenues.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
In systemic cases like the banking sector, or in heavily interdependent industries like the auto industry (where if GM fails, their suppliers fail, and if their suppliers -- who also supply Ford and Chrysler -- fail, then so too do Ford and Chrysler) it would behoove the American public ... much against their moral fortitude ... to suck it up and pay out.
I hate bail outs, but i would also hate to see the significant deterioration of American industry for the simple fact that our system of credit is dishonest.
The American automakers surely made some poor business decisions, but the primary reason for this current crisis in the automotive sector has virtually NOTHING to do with the automakers themselves. This is about a dishonest system of credit which is affecting EVERYONE ... and particularly large corporations that rely heavily on financing and easily available credit in multiple facets of their business.
IMHO, the enormous mistake is continuing to allow a dishonest system of credit to operate in America. It is not only dishonest, it is actually outright unconstitutional.
Of COURSE everyone suffers when dishonest and unconstitutional practices overrun the very fabric of our system of exchange.
Unfortuantely, now everyone is stuck complaining about the relative trivialities of government response to mere SYMPTOMS of the problem, rather than having the longevity of thought and sight necessary to ascertain that the real solutions lie in addressing the SYSTEM of credit ... and not simply the immediate distribution of credit on an emergency basis to affected institutions.
Again.
I hate bailouts.
They are emblematic of a dysfunctional system that attempts to operates outside of the constraints of free market economics.
However, if you are NOT willing to address those issues BEFORE the major symptoms start to take their toll, it then becomes wise to at least wait until after the immediate and potentially fatal shockwaves subside before beginning your crusade for justice.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
That is exactly correct. Auto makers are not just the workers at assembly plants. There are thousands of sub-contractors... many of them mid-sized companies all acorss the nation that make steering wheels, shock absorbers, windshields, seats, etc... that go into those autos. That also includes the big dealerships and all of their employees. Their jobs go away if the big auto makers collapse. And thousands of small companies, such as diners and coffee shops, dry cleaners and florists around those companies will suffer as more and more Americans are thrown into unemployment.
Hail, Hail!!!
If this is an attempt of the Dems creating a "socialist" state by bailing out an industry, does this mean that during the Reagan and Bush administrations, when they bailed out the Airline industries multiple times, they were pursuing the same?
What's the saying about stones and glass houses?
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
If you think the USA can afford to let the american auto industry fail, you are truly not very bright. There is not one major country that does not produce heavy industry like cars, planes, etc. We need the industrial capacity too, in case there is a real war.
Charlotte & Raleigh Lollapalooza 1992, Charlotte Memorial Stadium 1996, Tibet Freedom Concert 1998, Raleigh & Greenville 1998, Greensboro 2000, Raleigh & Camden 2003, Asheville 2004, Camden 2006, DC 2008, Atlanta 2012 Charlottesville 2013, Charlotte 2013
Greenville, (XRaleighX) and Hampton 2016, London Hyde Park, Quebec City and Ottawa 2022, St Paul X2 2023, Raleigh 2025 X2, Florida (hopefully)...
The car corporations are in trouble because of their own inefficiency and poor business model. It's not like it's a result of the recession, they simply failed to keep up with their competitors (foreign manufacturers). Let them file bankruptcy so they can re-work their finances and then possibly come back.
I'd say this is a pretty big case against unionization.
Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
Not only are American cars among the world's fugliest, they still guzzle almost as much gas as they always did.
When the Prius is selling like crazy, none of the big 3 have a single vehicle resembling its fuel efficiency.
I can't count how many times I've heard people say they'd buy an American car in an instant if it wasn't fugly and if it set a standard for gas mileage.
Why haven't the big 3 tuned into this concept? Are they stupid? They must be. They must be a bunch of fucking dumbasses. There can be no other explanation.
Of course, I don't think it's the designers themselves that are stupid. I am positive that our universities churn out brilliant engineers left and right every year. It's the dumbfucking managers that they have to work for that is the problem. I'm willing to bet brilliant idea after idea have been shunned for the sake of preserving eternal stupidity at the Big 3.
http://forums.pearljam.com/showthread.php?t=272825
Exactly.
Must be the drug testing. Not enough creative people wanting to work there.
We have creative people working in many other american industries, why not Auto?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4sLx5O_3M0
CNBC is crap.
You should turn it off.
Nothing good comes on CNBC.
[j/k joke directed at someone else, sorry]
anyway,
schiff has had excellent commentary about all of this meltdown going WAY back in this mess.
no different here.
If I opened it now would you not understand?
First, there are other options to cut costs besides cutting labor.
Second, even if labor is one of the resources chosen to cut, that's the firms decision. Gov't should not be getting involved. If you make a bad product or if you don't max profits properly the market will kick you out. We are making poor products and our auto industry is not making solid profits. Let the market work. And if that means we need to write unemployment checks, so be it. Utilize comparative advantage.
Your last two sentences are 100% dead-on. The labor costs are too high in the U.S..... why? Maybe unions have something to do with it.
Is it that, or is it that their business plan is horrid? Is it possible that their products simply suck? Is it possible that they should be prepared to weather the storm (a downturn in demand) by being fiscally sound? Or should the U.S. auto industry be continued to be coddled?
So your point is that the downturn in credit markets is responsible for the downturn in demand for autos? If that is your point, I simply disagree. I'd say that the downturn in demand for U.S. autos is a function of a downturn in aggregate demand.... or due to the recession. I do agree that financing may be a bit more difficult to obtain in this environment, but I don't think that's the real problem in the auto industry. IMHO it has very little to do with people obtaining financing. People are scared to buy big ticket items during recessions,..... that's the real problem. Hence the decline in demand. It's an issue of confidence. The gov't should be working on solving the consumer confidence issue.... not the production side. Supply is not the problem... demand is.
anyhoo - if anyone doesn't know that they live in a system with socialistic principles by now already, then i suggest they start figuring it out ... it is indeed your lack of socialistic values that has led your country to the state it's in ...
I agree. Why keep throwing money at an industry that is failing? All we're doing is prolonging the agony and wasting a lot of money. It's holding us back to keep this going.
Heck - we didn't keep bailing out the horse industry after automobiles became popular, did we?
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I have to agree with you 100%, but as other have stated this would be a crippling blow to our economy if the Big 3 are allowed to fail. I guess we do have to choose, at this point, between the lesser of two evils.
its not a liquidity issue its a trust issue.
I wonder if there will be more cafe standard whining now.
Not exactly, the industry financing is done through large banks like Chase for instance.
I was under the impression that GM had it's own financing department, where they themselves "loaned" the money to buyers.
They might have thier own bank actually, I'm not quite sure, but it's probably underwritten by several of the bigger banks that they have to make thier own loans from I imagine.
GM is a fantastically huge company so they probably do a lot of stuff in house. I know Toyota uses JP Morgan Chase.