Last Nights Debate.

saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
I'll say it.... Obama won. I will most likely vote for McCain. But, Obama won the 2nd debate handsdown and will (IMHO) be the next President.

That said, I hope all of you pro-Obama folks remember this campaign. I have a lot of confidence that the man is all talk with zero substance. I really doubt he's the hero you think he will be. But, he is very good at talking... so I hope you'll be happy with that.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • I 100% agree with you. I will be looking foward to that heads down bow that all of the Democrats will be facing when they realize they screwed up as badly as the Republicans have the past 8 years. ( I still would never have voted for Gore or Kerry)
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    sooo ... let's see here:

    *you have a GOP candidate who represents the party that just administered 8 horrible years of governance
    *a party that has nominated a neo-conservative with no knowledge or idea of what she's doing for vp
    *a presidential nominee who lost the debate on substance and style and actually used a racist comment on national tv
    *a platform of basically continuing the same lines as bush

    and yet one would still vote for mccain: that to me adds up to true partisanship ...
  • polaris wrote:
    sooo ... let's see here:

    *you have a GOP candidate who represents the party that just administered 8 horrible years of governance
    *a party that has nominated a neo-conservative with no knowledge or idea of what she's doing for vp
    *a presidential nominee who lost the debate on substance and style and actually used a racist comment on national tv
    *a platform of basically continuing the same lines as bush

    and yet one would still vote for mccain: that to me adds up to true partisanship ...

    You show me 5 REAL facts as to how he is a mirror image of the last 8 years, how she lost the debate, and as to how Obama is going to change ANYTHING and I will respect this statement
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    I 100% agree with you. I will be looking foward to that heads down bow that all of the Democrats will be facing when they realize they screwed up as badly as the Republicans have the past 8 years. ( I still would never have voted for Gore or Kerry)


    I don't know what's worse...The fact that you voted for Bush twice, or the fact that you'd actually go back and vote him in again.

    The Conservative Right never ceases to amaze me.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    You show me 5 REAL facts as to how he is a mirror image of the last 8 years, how she lost the debate, and as to how Obama is going to change ANYTHING and I will respect this statement

    1. voting record
    2. the nomination of sarah palin is akin to nominating GWB: someone without a clue but appeals to the religious right of the party's base
    3. his stance on war
    4. his stance on the economy
    5. the same people who are the architects of the GOP are still there - they haven't left

    sarah palin lost the debate because she didn't answer any questions with any substance - biden continuously attacked mccain on his record and she not once defended it ... she had canned cheeky responses aimed at a target audience that are not interested in substance ...

    as for obama - one of the biggest problems you partisan types (on both sides) have is that you automatically think that if one does not support mccain - he supports the other guy ... that is the fundamental problem with the electoral system in the US ...

    in any case - if i was a true conservative who was keen on fiscal responsiblity and lower taxes - how can you ignore the GOP's record for the last year with uncontrolled spending amounting to huuuge federal defecits????? ... how?? ... just because they put another face up there - you think that would actually change? ...
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    sooo ... let's see here:

    *you have a GOP candidate who represents the party that just administered 8 horrible years of governance
    *a party that has nominated a neo-conservative with no knowledge or idea of what she's doing for vp
    *a presidential nominee who lost the debate on substance and style and actually used a racist comment on national tv
    *a platform of basically continuing the same lines as bush

    and yet one would still vote for mccain: that to me adds up to true partisanship ...

    I said I thought Obama won the debate. I also think he will win the Presidency. Personally, I think he will do an awful job, that's just an opinion though. On top of that I prefer the Republican platform because I lean right. Although I think Obama is an excellent speaker, I think he has little substance behind his rhetoric. I think McCain is simply OK. All that combined leads me to lean Republican. If you call that partisan... fine. I don't think I'm being partisan at all. I looked at the race objectively... I even said the candidate you prefer won the debate... but, the debate is not how I make up my mind. I take idiosyncratic traits and combine them with platform to make up my mind.

    As for your comments, they are simply one-sided.
  • Gonzo1977 wrote:
    I don't know what's worse...The fact that you voted for Bush twice, or the fact that you'd actually go back and vote him in again.

    The Conservative Right never ceases to amaze me.

    I wasn't old enough to vote for him either election. This will be my first
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    saveuplife wrote:
    I'll say it.... Obama won. I will most likely vote for McCain. But, Obama won the 2nd debate handsdown and will (IMHO) be the next President.

    That said, I hope all of you pro-Obama folks remember this campaign. I have a lot of confidence that the man is all talk with zero substance. I really doubt he's the hero you think he will be. But, he is very good at talking... so I hope you'll be happy with that.

    I have to agree with you on everything, except voting for McCain. I hope the Democrats and the Obama supporters will be as critical of him, as they have been of Bush and the Republicans, when he starts screwing up and falls through on his promises.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    I said I thought Obama won the debate. I also think he will win the Presidency. Personally, I think he will do an awful job, that's just an opinion though. On top of that I prefer the Republican platform because I lean right. Although I think Obama is an excellent speaker, I think he has little substance behind his rhetoric. I think McCain is simply OK. All that combined leads me to lean Republican. If you call that partisan... fine. I don't think I'm being partisan at all. I looked at the race objectively... I even said the candidate you prefer won the debate... but, the debate is not how I make up my mind. I take idiosyncratic traits and combine them with platform to make up my mind.

    As for your comments, they are simply one-sided.

    what aspects of the republican performance of the 8 years suits you? ... are you pro-war? pro defecits? what is it?

    and again - partisan types need to realize this isn't north vs. south or east vs. west ... there are more than 2 sides ... we've been going back and forth on palin for the last week and i dunno how many times i've stated that i would not vote for barack obama ... so, it's not like i was pulling for one guy or the other ... what i do know is that the GOP performance the last 8 years has been piss poor by anyone's standard unless u are big oil or build missles ... and to hear you say you would still vote republican because u lean right is basically saying you will vote republican always ... that is the definition of partisanship ...
  • polaris wrote:
    actually used a racist comment on national tv
    *

    what racist comment are you referring to? if it's "that one," then, good god, dont you think you're being just a TAD over-sensitive?
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • Please don't confuse me with this StrangestTribe27.
    the Minions
  • polaris wrote:
    1. voting record
    2. the nomination of sarah palin is akin to nominating GWB: someone without a clue but appeals to the religious right of the party's base
    3. his stance on war
    4. his stance on the economy
    5. the same people who are the architects of the GOP are still there - they haven't left

    sarah palin lost the debate because she didn't answer any questions with any substance - biden continuously attacked mccain on his record and she not once defended it ... she had canned cheeky responses aimed at a target audience that are not interested in substance ...

    as for obama - one of the biggest problems you partisan types (on both sides) have is that you automatically think that if one does not support mccain - he supports the other guy ... that is the fundamental problem with the electoral system in the US ...

    in any case - if i was a true conservative who was keen on fiscal responsiblity and lower taxes - how can you ignore the GOP's record for the last year with uncontrolled spending amounting to huuuge federal defecits????? ... how?? ... just because they put another face up there - you think that would actually change? ...

    No I know that they're are people out there who do not approve of either of them. I am one of those people. Believe me when I say this, McCain was my last choice for the GOP candidate, with exception of Huckabee. I need to work better on my emotional skills in expressing this haha. I just get so sick of Democratic and Republican comments that have no stand point. I apologize to Polaris for my harsh comment. I just want to know where people come up with their conclusions, because so many are shifted by the media and whatnot. Once, again, I apologize across the board.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    long red wrote:
    what racist comment are you referring to? if it's "that one," then, good god, dont you think you're being just a TAD over-sensitive?

    maybe ... it's all very speculative - but based on other things he's said and the fact i believe he is trying to pander to a specific base ... i would say it's racist ... but that's just my opinion ...
  • polaris wrote:
    maybe ... it's all very speculative - but based on other things he's said and the fact i believe he is trying to pander to a specific base ... i would say it's racist ... but that's just my opinion ...

    maybe? you SAID he used a racist comment. I think you should be able to tell me what racist comment he used. if it's so racist, what's to speculate?
    Jam out with your clam out.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    No I know that they're are people out there who do not approve of either of them. I am one of those people. Believe me when I say this, McCain was my last choice for the GOP candidate, with exception of Huckabee. I need to work better on my emotional skills in expressing this haha. I just get so sick of Democratic and Republican comments that have no stand point. I apologize to Polaris for my harsh comment. I just want to know where people come up with their conclusions, because so many are shifted by the media and whatnot. Once, again, I apologize across the board.

    dude ... on this board - nothing that you wrote earlier is anywhere close to being considered harsh ... it was a fair post and i responded accordingly ... no need to apologize whatsoever ...
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    what aspects of the republican performance of the 8 years suits you? ... are you pro-war? pro defecits? what is it?

    and again - partisan types need to realize this isn't north vs. south or east vs. west ... there are more than 2 sides ... we've been going back and forth on palin for the last week and i dunno how many times i've stated that i would not vote for barack obama ... so, it's not like i was pulling for one guy or the other ... what i do know is that the GOP performance the last 8 years has been piss poor by anyone's standard unless u are big oil or build missles ... and to hear you say you would still vote republican because u lean right is basically saying you will vote republican always ... that is the definition of partisanship ...


    Pro-war? Come on, man. You are obviously fired up, but do you have to go there?

    I am not pro-war. I am not pro-deficits. That said I am pro-defense. I am pro-tax-cuts. I am pro-spending cuts. And I agree with the Republican take on morals.... with a few exceptions (ie death sentence).

    I don't always vote Republican though..... so you are wrong.

    Take a deep breath and calm down. Your prefered candidate will be in office soon.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    long red wrote:
    maybe? you SAID he used a racist comment. I think you should be able to tell me what racist comment he used. if it's so racist, what's to speculate?

    you asked if it was a over-sensitive - i said maybe ... the racist comment he used was "that one" ... it's speculative because it is up to the individual to decide the context of that statement ... is john mccain going to come out and say what that context is? ... i highly doubt it ...

    so, it is left up to the individual to decide ...
  • Thanks Polaris for the kind words. You as well Strangest Tribe. Saveuplife I still seem to agree with you in this area. I'm glad there are others out there who are not voting based on party. My aunt recently stated that the only reason she is voting for Obama is because she CAN NOT vote for a Republican right now. Its refreshing to see people across the board voting based on their beliefs. I think at this time you really need to vote based on previous history and not what they are saying in these debates or for the past year for that matter.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    Pro-war? Come on, man. You are obviously fired up, but do you have to go there?

    I am not pro-war. I am not pro-deficits. That said I am pro-defense. I am pro-tax-cuts. I am pro-spending cuts. And I agree with the Republican take on morals.... with a few exceptions (ie death sentence).

    I don't always vote Republican though..... so you are wrong.

    Take a deep breath and calm down. Your prefered candidate will be in office soon.

    haha ... i am more than calm i can assure ... so, calm enough that i can tell that you haven't read a thing i've written! ...

    in any case - those two issues will define the last 8 years under bush ... a vote for the GOP is a vote for those two issues ... so, the three things you are Pro for - u got one ... tax cuts ...
  • inhiding 1976inhiding 1976 NWI Posts: 580
    Mcain drank to many Heinekens

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  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    I think at this time you really need to vote based on previous history and not what they are saying in these debates or for the past year for that matter.

    if that is the case - how can anyone vote for the GOP based on the past 8 years?
  • polaris wrote:
    if that is the case - how can anyone vote for the GOP based on the past 8 years?

    I was talking about McCain's previous history, not the party.
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    You show me 5 REAL facts as to how he is a mirror image of the last 8 years, how she lost the debate, and as to how Obama is going to change ANYTHING and I will respect this statement


    Hmm...Let's see

    Iraq, Womens Right to Choose, Gun Control, Nuclear Energy, Off Shore Drilling, Global Warming, Tax Cuts to the Rich, Health Care....

    Need I continue?

    As for Sarah Palin...

    You actually think she won that debate against Biden??? Are you serious???

    WOW!!!

    Palin was so clearly out of her league. The notion that Sarah Palin won that debate simply because she didn't act like the halfwit blithering idiot that we saw during the past several weeks is nonsensical. No matter what stupid answers she gave on TV, the only standard at this debate is, "Can this person handle the job of being president at a moment's notice?" That's the ONLY thing that matters. Joe Biden CLEARLY passed that test. Sarah Palin did not. She flat out refused to answer most of the questions asked and only answered the ones that suited her. Biden gave clear well thought out answers and showed his awarness on a wide range of issues. He laid out both his and Obama's plans while Palin sat there and basically regurgitated the same Right Wing talking points spit out over the previous week.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    haha ... i am more than calm i can assure ... so, calm enough that i can tell that you haven't read a thing i've written! ...

    in any case - those two issues will define the last 8 years under bush ... a vote for the GOP is a vote for those two issues ... so, the three things you are Pro for - u got one ... tax cuts ...

    To an extent you are right. I think Bush did a terrible job managing the war and he did awful when it comes to spending. He did OK when it comes to tax-cuts.

    That said, according to what I wrote he did put in some Supreme Court Justices that interpret the law the way I would like them to. So, Bush did do a decent job with morals.... atleast if you align with the Republican viewpoint on that set of issues.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Hmm...Let's see

    Iraq, Womens Right to Choose, Gun Control, Nuclear Energy, Off Shore Drilling, Global Warming, Tax Cuts to the Rich, Health Care....

    Need I continue?

    As for Sarah Palin...

    You actually think she won that debate against Biden??? Are you serious???

    WOW!!!

    Palin was so clearly out of her league. The notion that Sarah Palin won that debate simply because she didn't act like the halfwit blithering idiot that we saw during the past several weeks is nonsensical. No matter what stupid answers she gave on TV, the only standard at this debate is, "Can this person handle the job of being president at a moment's notice?" That's the ONLY thing that matters. Joe Biden CLEARLY passed that test. Sarah Palin did not. She flat out refused to answer most of the questions asked and only answered the ones that suited her. Biden gave clear well thought out answers and showed his awarness on a wide range of issues. He laid out both his and Obama's plans while Palin sat there and basically regurgitated the same Right Wing talking points spit out over the previous week.

    I actually think the Presidential race would be closer if Palin was the nominee for President. I am being 100% sincere too.
  • Gonzo1977 wrote:
    Hmm...Let's see

    Iraq, Womens Right to Choose, Gun Control, Nuclear Energy, Off Shore Drilling, Global Warming, Tax Cuts to the Rich, Health Care....

    Need I continue?

    As for Sarah Palin...

    You actually think she won that debate against Biden??? Are you serious???

    WOW!!!

    Palin was so clearly out of her league. The notion that Sarah Palin won that debate simply because she didn't act like the halfwit blithering idiot that we saw during the past several weeks is nonsensical. No matter what stupid answers she gave on TV, the only standard at this debate is, "Can this person handle the job of being president at a moment's notice?" That's the ONLY thing that matters. Joe Biden CLEARLY passed that test. Sarah Palin did not. She flat out refused to answer most of the questions asked and only answered the ones that suited her. Biden gave clear well thought out answers and showed his awarness on a wide range of issues. He laid out both his and Obama's plans while Palin sat there and basically regurgitated the same Right Wing talking points spit out over the previous week.

    I don't think Palin won by a landslide, but I believe that Biden would have walked away with it had he not stated that he would infact love to run with McCain or have to constantly defend how he did not agree with Obama 6 months ago. I do not think she came out on top, but I think in that aspect it was a draw. As for your "facts", McCain's tax cuts to the rich is a blatant lie, and what the hell are you talking about Women's right to choose? If your talking about Abortion I'll be the first to tell you that whole arguement is bullshit. It's not in the Constitution, that means it should be decided by the states. I can't stand when people expect the Federal Government to decide shit like this. This also applies to Gay Marriage.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    To an extent you are right. I think Bush did a terrible job managing the war and he did awful when it comes to spending. He did OK when it comes to tax-cuts.

    That said, according to what I wrote he did put in some Supreme Court Justices that interpret the law the way I would like them to. So, Bush did do a decent job with morals.... atleast if you align with the Republican viewpoint on that set of issues.

    morals shouldn't have a partisan slant ... you appoint people to positions because they would act without partisanship in the interests of the people and with the constitution as its backbone ...

    i'm not gonna go into lengths but bush did a horrible job of appointing people at all levels ... between brown at fema and harriot miers to the supreme court ...

    really tho - has there ever been a more divisive president as it pertains to appointments - sure, I guess if you are looking at it as a pro-lifer - i guess it's to your liking ...
  • Gonzo1977Gonzo1977 Posts: 1,696
    saveuplife wrote:
    I actually think the Presidential race would be closer if Palin was the nominee for President. I am being 100% sincere too.


    Well...I can't disagree with you on this point. It's a dangerous and unfortunate truth that there is a large majority of people in this country that would vote for Sarah Plalin on the principle that she is "simple" and reflects the lowest common denominator of American Society. The fact that we could hold our potential leaders to such a low standard is both vile and utterly digusting.
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    polaris wrote:
    morals shouldn't have a partisan slant ... you appoint people to positions because they would act without partisanship in the interests of the people and with the constitution as its backbone ...

    i'm not gonna go into lengths but bush did a horrible job of appointing people at all levels ... between brown at fema and harriot miers to the supreme court ...

    really tho - has there ever been a more divisive president as it pertains to appointments - sure, I guess if you are looking at it as a pro-lifer - i guess it's to your liking ...

    Morals do have a partisan slant because people make up the parties and people have opinions on morals. It's a reality and it's not going away.

    I don't think Bush did a bad job of appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's because I align with that ideology.

    As far as divisiveness, I think he was average. Clinton's appointments seemed divisive as well. It all depends on your point of view, or where you start with your own political/moral opinion.
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    saveuplife wrote:
    Morals do have a partisan slant because people make up the parties and people have opinions on morals. It's a reality and it's not going away.

    I don't think Bush did a bad job of appointments to the Supreme Court, but that's because I align with that ideology.

    As far as divisiveness, I think he was average. Clinton's appointments seemed divisive as well. It all depends on your point of view, or where you start with your own political/moral opinion.

    well ... i think this is part of where i'm coming from ... it's similar to our discussion about gwen ifil ... i don't really care what your personal belief systems are as long as you are fit to do the job that is tasked before you objectively and openly as possible ...

    america is so divided along partisan lines that often what is "right" is so often overlooked ...
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