Obama is turning into John Kerry

saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
edited September 2008 in A Moving Train
Obama has everything in his favor to unseat the party in control right now:

-the economic growth
-unemployment
-the war
-inflation

yet, he keeps screwing up ("lipstick" comment today, "my muslim faith" comment earlier in the week). He's reminding more and more of John Kerry. He needs to stick to issues. That's where he can (could have) win (won). He's not going to win on race. He's not going to win on record. He can only win on issues. Yet, he's now using idiotic metaphors which could easily be taken the wrong way by independents. He's imploding under Republican attacks.... just like John Kerry. He just seems weak lately.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    saveuplife wrote:
    Obama has everything in his favor to unseat the party in control right now:

    -the economic growth
    -unemployment
    -the war
    -inflation

    yet, he keeps screwing up ("lipstick" comment today, "my muslim faith" comment earlier in the week). He's reminding more and more of John Kerry. He needs to stick to issues. That's where he can (could have) win (won). He's not going to win on race. He's not going to win on record. He can only win on issues. Yet, he's now using idiotic metaphors which could easily be taken the wrong way by independents. He's imploding under Republican attacks.... just like John Kerry. He just seems weak lately.
    Thanks for the concern. To me, it seems like the Republicans are whining about anything and everything that comes their way, all along holding a knife behind their backs. Obama has a catch 22 - respond to the senseless attacks, and he "justifies" them. Don't respond, and they continue without scrutiny a la the Swift Boat Vets for Truth.

    If Obama loses, it'll be because Republicans vote in lockstep no matter what. That and, lets not kid ourselves here, because he's black.
  • fuckfuck Posts: 4,069
    RainDog wrote:
    Thanks for the concern. To me, it seems like the Republicans are whining about anything and everything that comes their way, all along holding a knife behind their backs. Obama has a catch 22 - respond to the senseless attacks, and he "justifies" them. Don't respond, and they continue without scrutiny a la the Swift Boat Vets for Truth.

    If Obama loses, it'll be because Republicans vote in lockstep no matter what. That and, lets not kid ourselves here, because he's black.
    Look, I agree that the republicans whine and bullshit all the time, but can we quit acting like Obama is trapped in these crazy catch 22 scenarios, when they are really nothing like that?
  • digsterdigster Posts: 1,293
    I think we're having this same conversation in the other thread, but you're right, to a degree. Obama has the same problem Kerry has, because Obama wins on the issues. McCain cannot and I think he has realized this, as Bush did in 2004. So it becomes character attacks, running on a biography as opposed to positions, and manipulating the media (which are extremely gullible). And I guess it's Obama's fault; he unveiled a detailed policy on education, but that won't get the ratings in the media the way some manufactured controversy about Obama calling Palin a pig will (cause you know, it's only the future of our children). I don't know if it's that Obama's screwing up other than the Republicans being very very good at avoiding issues so they can win elections.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    _outlaw wrote:
    Look, I agree that the republicans whine and bullshit all the time, but can we quit acting like Obama is trapped in these crazy catch 22 scenarios, when they are really nothing like that?
    Then what are they like? Republicans control the message no matter how Obama responds.
  • chromiamchromiam Posts: 4,114
    Obama's problem is that he doesn't have a teleprompter in front of him ALL the time.
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  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    RainDog wrote:
    If Obama loses, it'll be because Republicans vote in lockstep no matter what. That and, lets not kid ourselves here, because he's black.

    Democrats voted him in (even though he was black). They knew there was a risk that he wouldn't get votes because of his color. That's a political reality, unfortunately.

    That said, I personally, don't think he'd be in the position he's in today if it weren't for his color.

    Lastly, and most importantly.... if Obama loses it's because he was greedy. Yep, greedy. He should've gone with Clinton. He didn't. He wanted all the power. That set-up the Palin pick, which changed everything.
  • chromiam wrote:
    Obama's problem is that he doesn't have a teleprompter in front of him ALL the time.


    Sorry.. I think that is Palin's problem.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


    As individual fingers we can easily be broken, but together we make a mighty fist ~ Sitting Bull
  • RainDog wrote:
    Then what are they like? Republicans control the message no matter how Obama responds.

    So this morning on MSNBC, the aired a decent part of Obama's campaign speech live (which of course Fox didn't). Obama defended himself pretty well I though, then gave a good education speech comparing his plans and past actions to McCain's lack of plans and actions.

    So MSNBC cutaway to a break, then after the break instead of even mentioning anything about education or comments on Obama's plan good or bad, they go into a 10 minute segement on the "lipstick controversy".

    Who cares about issues, right?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • VinceVince Posts: 174
    saveuplife wrote:
    Obama has everything in his favor to unseat the party in control right now:

    -the economic growth
    -unemployment
    -the war
    -inflation

    yet, he keeps screwing up ("lipstick" comment today, "my muslim faith" comment earlier in the week). He's reminding more and more of John Kerry. He needs to stick to issues. That's where he can (could have) win (won). He's not going to win on race. He's not going to win on record. He can only win on issues. Yet, he's now using idiotic metaphors which could easily be taken the wrong way by independents. He's imploding under Republican attacks.... just like John Kerry. He just seems weak lately.


    How did he screw up? He said nothing wrong. Jesus fucking christ!!

    What is wrong is that the Republicans are resorting to distortion and swiftboat politics. The difference between Kerry and Obama is that Obama is not going to sit there and let the Republicans get away with it. The only people who lose in this squabble is the American people.

    What is idiotic are the people who fall for this and the people who sit by and let the Republicans get away with their slime ball tactics.


    Apparently McCain likes lipstick on a pig too.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BR8IhMMhe8w
    “Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened.”
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    RainDog wrote:
    Thanks for the concern. To me, it seems like the Republicans are whining about anything and everything that comes their way, all along holding a knife behind their backs. Obama has a catch 22 - respond to the senseless attacks, and he "justifies" them. Don't respond, and they continue without scrutiny a la the Swift Boat Vets for Truth.

    If Obama loses, it'll be because Republicans vote in lockstep no matter what. That and, lets not kid ourselves here, because he's black.

    if Obama loses one reason is that he is running a pretty bad federal election. why is he even talking abotu palin she is not the one at the top of teh ballad. McCain is. you let your VP talk abotu Palin you don't waste yoru time abotu this. Obama campaign so far up to this point has been great but it seems that he is a deer in headlights right now.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • saveuplifesaveuplife Posts: 1,173
    Vince wrote:
    How did he screw up? He said nothing wrong. Jesus fucking christ!!

    He said something that the media will toy with to get ratings. That's how he f'd up. He should know that the media wants ratings and will do anything to get them. He should also know that the average independent voter may think it's an unfair attack on Palin as they glance at it briefly on aol.com or something site that.
  • Thecure wrote:
    if Obama loses one reason is that he is running a pretty bad federal election. why is he even talking abotu palin she is not the one at the top of teh ballad. McCain is. you let your VP talk abotu Palin you don't waste yoru time abotu this. Obama campaign so far up to this point has been great but it seems that he is a deer in headlights right now.

    When did he say anything bad about her personally? Link?
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • No demands were made to Kerry in 04 by progressive democrats and no demands are being made to Obama now by progressives so I wouldnt expect anything else but flipping on issues, reconsiderations of promises and sliding to the right.

    Duk's
    Gore
    Kerry

    When winning is all that matters the Democrats are damn good at losing.
  • ThecureThecure Posts: 814
    When did he say anything bad about her personally? Link?

    never said that he did say anything bad about palin. did i say that any where? just said that he is talking alot abotu palin which i don't think he should be doing as she is not the top of teh ticket. you get others to attack her and you go back to talking about the issues. that is what he did in the primaries and i think that is the reason that he won.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • Other than change what is Obama promising with regards to the three most important issues facing america:
    Being able to afford to live...
    War...
    Money/big business in politics...
  • Thecure wrote:
    never said that he did say anything bad about palin. did i say that any where? just said that he is talking alot abotu palin which i don't think he should be doing as she is not the top of teh ticket. you get others to attack her and you go back to talking about the issues. that is what he did in the primaries and i think that is the reason that he won.

    Okay, where did he say ANYTHING about her other than right after the nomination? All I've heard is his critique of McCain's policies. Show me where Obama has said anything about Palin. If it's "alot" as you say, it should be easy for you.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    saveuplife wrote:
    Democrats voted him in (even though he was black). They knew there was a risk that he wouldn't get votes because of his color. That's a political reality, unfortunately.

    That said, I personally, don't think he'd be in the position he's in today if it weren't for his color.
    You're right, he'd probably be further ahead.
    saveuplife wrote:
    Lastly, and most importantly.... if Obama loses it's because he was greedy. Yep, greedy. He should've gone with Clinton. He didn't. He wanted all the power. That set-up the Palin pick, which changed everything.
    Again, I respectfully disagree. If Obama had gone with Clinton, he'd have loaded every little piece of baggage that the Clintons carried onto his campaign, it'd be all about the Clintons all the time, and he could hardly argue for change with a former First Lady - and a very divisive one - on the ticket. With Biden, he may be old hat, but he doesn't stir up the red-eyed, blood filled, right-wing rage like the Clintons.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    Thecure wrote:
    if Obama loses one reason is that he is running a pretty bad federal election. why is he even talking abotu palin she is not the one at the top of teh ballad. McCain is. you let your VP talk abotu Palin you don't waste yoru time abotu this. Obama campaign so far up to this point has been great but it seems that he is a deer in headlights right now.
    Yeah, that's what the T.V. told me to think, too. In reality it's not all about Palin.

    Unfortunately it is all about Palin right now because the media won't shut up about her. Obama has largely left her alone, but when everything you say is construed as some sort of assault on Palin, and when every one of your spokesmen are asked about Palin, and when it's all Palin all the time, then it certainly seems like all Obama talks about is Palin.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    saveuplife wrote:
    Obama has everything in his favor to unseat the party in control right now:

    -the economic growth
    -unemployment
    -the war
    -inflation

    yet, he keeps screwing up ("lipstick" comment today, "my muslim faith" comment earlier in the week). He's reminding more and more of John Kerry. He needs to stick to issues. That's where he can (could have) win (won). He's not going to win on race. He's not going to win on record. He can only win on issues. Yet, he's now using idiotic metaphors which could easily be taken the wrong way by independents. He's imploding under Republican attacks.... just like John Kerry. He just seems weak lately.

    pretty soon he'll be a lipstick wearing Muslim who won't wear a flag pin and throws away tiny American flags....

    I guess some folks:
    aren't the brightest bulb in the bunch...
    or a few sandwiches short of a picnic...
    or dumber than a box of rocks...
    or like a cat eatin' lemons - a sourpuss...
    or like school in the summertime - no class...







    ...they worry more about "idiotic metaphors" vs. looking at the issues....
  • RainDog wrote:
    Thanks for the concern. To me, it seems like the Republicans are whining about anything and everything that comes their way, all along holding a knife behind their backs. Obama has a catch 22 - respond to the senseless attacks, and he "justifies" them. Don't respond, and they continue without scrutiny a la the Swift Boat Vets for Truth.

    If Obama loses, it'll be because Republicans vote in lockstep no matter what. That and, lets not kid ourselves here, because he's black.

    It couldn't be that Obama just isn't that good a candidate? No, never.

    The guy is obviously a fraud.

    Here is a pretty good article written by a Democratic strategist on why Obama has been struggling since the primaries. I kind of think it's pretty spot-on:

    http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2008/09/obama-polls-worry.php
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • inmytree wrote:
    pretty soon he'll be a lipstick wearing Muslim who won't wear a flag pin and throws away tiny American flags....

    I guess some folks:
    aren't the brightest bulb in the bunch...
    or a few sandwiches short of a picnic...
    or dumber than a box of rocks...
    or like a cat eatin' lemons - a sourpuss...
    or like school in the summertime - no class...







    ...they worry more about "idiotic metaphors" vs. looking at the issues....

    He wants to kill little babies too. :rolleyes:
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • Other than change what is Obama promising with regards to the three most important issues facing america:
    Being able to afford to live...
    War...
    Money/big business in politics...

    He's offering change on his economic policy ... he was for ending the tax cuts for the rich, now he's for keeping them around awhile.

    He's offering change on his more drilling policy ... he's was totally against it, now he's sort of for it.

    He's offering change on his Iraq policy ... he was for an immediate withdrawal back in March, now maybe not.

    He's the candidate of change alright.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • catch22catch22 Posts: 1,081
    He's offering change on his economic policy ... he was for ending the tax cuts for the rich, now he's for keeping them around awhile.

    He's offering change on his more drilling policy ... he's was totally against it, now he's sort of for it.

    He's offering change on his Iraq policy ... he was for an immediate withdrawal back in March, now maybe not.

    He's the candidate of change alright.

    i like a president willing to listen to the people and accept criticism and adjust policy to make it reasonable and responsive to the american public.

    god knows, the current admin's tactic of ignoring common sense, public sentiment, and overwhelming reality in order to pursue blind ideological vision has worked out REAL well for us all :rolleyes:
    and like that... he's gone.
  • Thecure wrote:
    never said that he did say anything bad about palin. did i say that any where? just said that he is talking alot abotu palin which i don't think he should be doing as she is not the top of teh ticket. you get others to attack her and you go back to talking about the issues. that is what he did in the primaries and i think that is the reason that he won.

    Okay, where did he say ANYTHING about her other than right after the nomination? All I've heard is his critique of McCain's policies. Show me where Obama has said anything about Palin. If it's "alot" as you say, it should be easy for you.

    How's it coming on this, thecure? Any luck?
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • catch22 wrote:
    i like a president willing to listen to the people and accept criticism and adjust policy to make it reasonable and responsive to the american public.

    god knows, the current admin's tactic of ignoring common sense, public sentiment, and overwhelming reality in order to pursue blind ideological vision has worked out REAL well for us all :rolleyes:

    I can accept that. But I DO NOT want a president to changes his mind based on the daily polls, either.

    Truth is, you don't know what you are going to get with Obama.

    If you voted for him in March because he was the anti-war, tax-the-rich, no-more-drilling candidate ... I'd imagine you're feeling betrayed today.

    And if you're voting now for Obama based upon the things he's promising in this election, I'd imagine you're going to be pretty betrayed in January when he changes his mind again.

    No matter what, it's political idiocy. Kerry lost in '04 in part because Bush was able to portray him as a namby-pamby flip-flopper. And here comes Obama four years later ... flip-flopping. Even if it's all in good faith, and not (as I suspect) just to get elected, all this does is set the ball up nicely on the tee for the Republicans. Again.
    everybody wants the most they can possibly get
    for the least they could possibly do
  • catch22catch22 Posts: 1,081
    I can accept that. But I DO NOT want a president to changes his mind based on the daily polls, either.

    Truth is, you don't know what you are going to get with Obama.

    If you voted for him in March because he was the anti-war, tax-the-rich, no-more-drilling candidate ... I'd imagine you're feeling betrayed today.

    And if you're voting now for Obama based upon the things he's promising in this election, I'd imagine you're going to be pretty betrayed in January when he changes his mind again.

    i'm voting for him based on the fact that he is not as far right as mccain and is going to get at least a more centrist political agenda on the table, even if he's willing to make compromises to get it to happen.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    He's offering change on his economic policy ... he was for ending the tax cuts for the rich, now he's for keeping them around awhile.
    All he said is he wouldn't raise taxes blindly while in a recession - not that he's against repealing the tax cuts. In other words, he's not a "Go Fuck Yourself, it's my way or the highway" kind of politician.
    He's offering change on his more drilling policy ... he's was totally against it, now he's sort of for it.
    Once again, he's not a Go Fuck Yourself politician. The reason you have to squeeze "sort of" in your sentence there is because he's not for it. However, if the only way to get a comprehensive new energy policy passed is to appease the drilling pissers and whiners who fully intend to shut down all discussion of the issue if their little pet project isn't at least given attention, then why not discuss it?
    He's offering change on his Iraq policy ... he was for an immediate withdrawal back in March, now maybe not.
    Now this one is completely wrong. He has never been for an immediate withdrawal. His plan - from the time he entered the Senate - has always had a year and a half time frame for withdrawal. He has also - always - called for more troops in Afghanistan.
  • RainDog wrote:
    All he said is he wouldn't raise taxes blindly while in a recession - not that he's against repealing the tax cuts. In other words, he's not a "Go Fuck Yourself, it's my way or the highway" kind of politician.

    Once again, he's not a Go Fuck Yourself politician. The reason you have to squeeze "sort of" in your sentence there is because he's not for it. However, if the only way to get a comprehensive new energy policy passed is to appease the drilling pissers and whiners who fully intend to shut down all discussion of the issue if their little pet project isn't at least given attention, then why not discuss it?

    Now this one is completely wrong. He has never been for an immediate withdrawal. His plan - from the time he entered the Senate - has always had a year and a half time frame for withdrawal. He has also - always - called for more troops in Afghanistan.

    I don't think jeff learned in Texas that you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

    Well said, dog.
    No longer overwhelmed it seems so simple now.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    I don't think jeff learned in Texas that you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.

    Well said, dog.
    What can I say - It's hard being a blind follower hypnotized by pretty words. :)
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