Objective Thread

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  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    cheeseandrice wrote:
    Not that this is my stance in anyway but, the dems are now saying "Does it make you more qualified because you were a POW? Or does it show you that you were hasty and planned poorly because you were captured?" I guess there are two sides to it and a rotten question to be answered.

    I'm not a Democrat but I have to call BS on this. I have yet to hear any prominent Democrat or supporter call McCain judgement into question because he was a POW. The only statements they have made about his experience as a POW is that it doesn't necessarily mean that just because you where a POW means that it makes you more qualified to be the president. The RNC is using the fact that he was a POW to insinuate that it makes him more qualified which is not true. The fact that he was a POW makes him neither more or less qualified to do the job.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    saveuplife wrote:
    Can anyone actually be objective here? Is it possible to discuss politics without entangling your specific beliefs?

    What I mean is simple. Palin and Obama are good examples.

    I know the heavy majority disagree with Palin on almost all issues. However, can't you admit that she was a smart political pick? Can you admit that it has bolstered the opposition? Can you admit that this may actually be a race now?

    On the other side, for all you die-hard Republicans.... Can you say honestly that people are not looking for change when we are on the brink of recession? Can you not say that Obama is very very eloquent speaker who clearly connects with people?

    This thread is meant to get people speaking about the politics. This has nothing to do with your beliefs or political platforms. It has to do with politics.

    i'm not certain palin was a good pick, though it's got little to do with my disagreement with her politics. she was kind of a wash in my eyes... i wondered if a woman could reach the right wing mccain needed to get and i was skeptical of her inexperience undercutting their criticism of obama. on the flipside, adding a woman undercuts the obama camp's strategy of painting mccain as more old white male rulers. her speech last night went well though. she did a good job of reaching the people mccain needed her to reach and rhetorically it was exactly what the right needed to hear. so for now, it was a good pick. we'll see how she holds up in the long haul. on a personal level, her speech and her stances on issues scares the living shit out of me.

    obama is an excellent speaker. he's got the kerry problem though. you try to take nuanced and flexible positions on issues in american politics (home of the 15 second soundbyte) and you're going to sound like an uncertain flip-flopper. personally, i think obama is a very intelligent man who would make an excellent president. he's thoughtful, and able to see multiple sides to most problems. i believe he would take reasonable and measured actions, which is all i ask. he seems very much a centrist. i just hope he can present that to the public. so far though, it seems like he's light on details and people are hammering him for it. i do think people are unfairly picking 10 seconds of something he said in x place and finding 10 seconds of a speech in y place to make it seems like he's a contradictory person. but why not? it worked against kerry.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • unsung
    unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    You know how I know that Palin was a great pick?

    This place is up in arms over her. :)
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    Quite often in her speech, Palin said "all Americans" regarding what they were going to do.

    funny considering they run on a platform of issues where they kinda say "with us or against us"

    I guess they mean "all who think like us" the others are un-american commie pinkos so they don't really have a say.

    there's only one candidate who was very specific in wanting to find the middle ground on all these "devisive issues"

    Barack Obama

    that was what sold me on obama. the part of his speech where he discussed how we may disagree on abortion, but we can all agree that we need to do something to prevent teens from getting pregnant and helping them if they do; or there's middle ground between upholding the 2nd amendment and keeping ak-47's away from criminals. that's the kind of reasonable approach i want. and palin's speech last night was more of the same tired mud-slinging and divisie rhetoric to my ears. i say this as someone who's a centrist and wants some common sense back in office, not a lefty. unfortunately, like i said, it makes him seem indecisive. because in one state he'll say "your right to own guns is and should be protected" and then in another he'll call for more gun control. presented out of context to the rabid and largely ignorant lunatics on both fringes, it makes him seem like he stands for nothing.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • g under p
    g under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero Galaxy Posts: 18,237
    unsung wrote:
    You know how I know that Palin was a great pick?

    This place is up in arms over her. :)

    Maybe it would be different if she looked like a troll. Just maybe.

    Peace
    *We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti

    *MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
    .....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti

    *The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)


  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    cheeseandrice wrote:
    Not that this is my stance in anyway but, the dems are now saying "Does it make you more qualified because you were a POW? Or does it show you that you were hasty and planned poorly because you were captured?" I guess there are two sides to it and a rotten question to be answered.

    I have to say, I haven't heard anyone say that. Maybe some crazy-ass left wing blog, but I haven't heard anyone lob that as a legitimate criticism.
  • stupidcorporatewhore
    stupidcorporatewhore Posts: 761
    unsung wrote:
    You know how I know that Palin was a great pick?

    This place is up in arms over her. :)

    she's a menace.
  • Wobbie
    Wobbie Posts: 31,410
    I thought her speech was gutter politics at its finest. Juvenile and divisive. Attack, attack, attack with no real substance and plenty of half truths.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080904/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_fact_check
    If I had known then what I know now...

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  • Thecure
    Thecure Posts: 814
    stupidcorporatewhore wrote:
    Quite often in her speech, Palin said "all Americans" regarding what they were going to do.

    funny considering they run on a platform of issues where they kinda say "with us or against us"

    I guess they mean "all who think like us" the others are un-american commie pinkos so they don't really have a say.

    there's only one candidate who was very specific in wanting to find the middle ground on all these "devisive issues"

    Barack Obama

    oh come on. way to put words into other people mouths. why all the name calling, it is so boring and so old. not all conservatives are for wars, pro-life and jesus freaks just liek not all democrates are commies, pro-choice and anti-war. this is a sterotype from the media from both sides and we must move past it.
    People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid."
    - Soren Aabye Kierkegaard (1813-1855)

    If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me."
    - Alice Roosevelt Longworth (1884-1980)
  • cheeseandrice
    cheeseandrice Posts: 206
    mammasan wrote:
    I'm not a Democrat but I have to call BS on this. I have yet to hear any prominent Democrat or supporter call McCain judgement into question because he was a POW. The only statements they have made about his experience as a POW is that it doesn't necessarily mean that just because you where a POW means that it makes you more qualified to be the president. The RNC is using the fact that he was a POW to insinuate that it makes him more qualified which is not true. The fact that he was a POW makes him neither more or less qualified to do the job.

    Maybe it was just the radio talk show host's opinion...don't know. I apologize if not official but, still an offensive question that I'm sure no one would ever ask.
    I will hold the candle until it burns up my arm. I'll keep taking punches until their will grows tired. I will stare the sun down until my eyes go blind. I won't change direction and I won't change my mind.
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    Thecure wrote:
    oh come on. way to put words into other people mouths. why all the name calling, it is so boring and so old. not all conservatives are for wars, pro-life and jesus freaks just liek not all democrates are commies, pro-choice and anti-war. this is a sterotype from the media from both sides and we must move past it.

    palin is though and it was clear from her speech last night. mccain does not do well with that segment of the party and that's why she was brought on board, because she appeals to those people. so it's perfectly fair. i don't think she would deny that.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    "FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

    THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries."


    Huh? Mike?
  • Solat13
    Solat13 Posts: 6,996
    unsung wrote:
    You know how I know that Palin was a great pick?

    This place is up in arms over her. :)

    Yep, I've never seen this place more up and arms about anyone in a long, long time.

    I may not agree with her or her policies, but from a buzz standpoint it was a brilliant move by McCain in choosing her.
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  • decides2dream
    decides2dream Posts: 14,977
    Solat13 wrote:
    Yep, I've never seen this place more up and arms about anyone in a long, long time.

    I may not agree with her or her policies, but from a buzz standpoint it was a brilliant move by McCain in choosing her.


    it absolutely was...i think many agree with that.
    when one chooses the anti-christ as a running mate, it's bound to generate some buzz. ;)
    Stay with me...
    Let's just breathe...


    I am myself like you somehow


  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    Solat13 wrote:
    Yep, I've never seen this place more up and arms about anyone in a long, long time.

    I may not agree with her or her policies, but from a buzz standpoint it was a brilliant move by McCain in choosing her.

    Oh, there's no doubt that it was a smart pick in that regard. Competely violating the entire point of having a capable VP, but politically smart. Instead of talking about the war, the economy, and energy independence we'll probably spend this election replaying the culture wars that fucked up the 04 election. Which is probably the only way the Republicans can take the White House.

    Can't wait.
  • nfanel
    nfanel Posts: 2,558
    decides2dream wrote:
    it absolutely was...i think many agree with that.
    when one chooses the anti-christ as a running mate, it's bound to generate some buzz. ;)
    lol. :D
  • Ghetto Star
    Ghetto Star Posts: 31
    Kerry was not a weak canditate...at worst he was a stopgap...a chance to catch our breath...

    You can justify GWB however you'd like...and if you voted for him...you share the blame....and it is the past...but how can you say...well i know this guy is horrible...but this guy doesn't do anything for me...i'll go with horrible...

    I am certain now that McCain will be the next president...Obama is too scary for the timid...post 9/11 perpetually frightened crew
    it's all about you...
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    Ghetto Star wrote:
    Kerry was not a weak canditate...at worst he was a stopgap...a chance to catch our breath...

    You can justify GWB however you'd like...and if you voted for him...you share the blame....and it is the past...but how can you say...well i know this guy is horrible...but this guy doesn't do anything for me...i'll go with horrible...

    I am certain now that McCain will be the next president...Obama is too scary for the timid...post 9/11 perpetually frightened crew

    I think Kerry was probably a crappy candidate and may very well have been a crappy president.

    But there is a very very very very VERY long list of people in this country, Republican and Democrat alike, who could have done a better job than the guy in the oval office these past four years.
  • catch22
    catch22 Posts: 1,081
    digster wrote:
    Oh, there's no doubt that it was a smart pick in that regard. Competely violating the entire point of having a capable VP, but politically smart. Instead of talking about the war, the economy, and energy independence we'll probably spend this election replaying the culture wars that fucked up the 04 election. Which is probably the only way the Republicans can take the White House.

    Can't wait.

    eh, the capable VP is only necessary if there are questions about the president. see bush picking cheney and obama snagging biden. you pick a VP to balance your ticket. mccain has more experience than anyone, he didn't need a VP with a backlog of experience. he needed someone to inject some excitement into a campaign that had stalled. palin has done it.

    but yes, it does foreshadow more of the same tired social issue spats. i hope obama can somehow keep people's eyes on the prize, but i'm not so sure. palin is going to play well in places like ohio. it's worked for the republicans before. makes sense for them to do it again.
    and like that... he's gone.
  • digster
    digster Posts: 1,293
    catch22 wrote:
    eh, the capable VP is only necessary if there are questions about the president. see bush picking cheney and obama snagging biden. you pick a VP to balance your ticket. mccain has more experience than anyone, he didn't need a VP with a backlog of experience. he needed someone to inject some excitement into a campaign that had stalled. palin has done it.

    but yes, it does foreshadow more of the same tired social issue spats. i hope obama can somehow keep people's eyes on the prize, but i'm not so sure. palin is going to play well in places like ohio. it's worked for the republicans before. makes sense for them to do it again.

    Admittedly, I'm in NYC, so I'm not surrounded by a significant amount of hardcore social conservatives, but I just find it hard to believe that there are so many people in this country that think the policy positions of Gov. Palin are so attractive that it would make them choose McCain and therefore hand him the election. I have trouble understanding how we live on the same planet, much less the same country...but I guess that's what makes our country a miracle. And I'm sure there's some social conservative out there saying the same thing about someone like me.

    It's not just that putting the Republicans back in the White House is a bad idea, but from my corner, it's seems like it's very very obviously a bad idea. But I suppose I'm just too partisan.

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