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Universal health care...in the hands of Bush and Co.

hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
edited July 2007 in A Moving Train
That's what you would have had for the last eight years. It almost would have been worth installing universal health care back in the late 90's to see how Bush would have jacked it up for you guys.

But I veer from my point...I'm sure Hillary or Obama (other people who supported this war and continue to support it) would do wonders with universal health care, right?!?! God knows universal health care wouldn't get even more bogged down, right. I mean let's be realistic now...

Katrina response - That made the left happy. (Er, Blackwater was happy.)

Iraq war timeline for withdraw - Ummmmmm, yeah. Ain't happenin'. (Ever.)

Social Security and the National Deficit - They're good with our money!!! (LOL!!!)

Gay marriage rights - Someone turn on LOGO!!! I'm feeling a rainbow of hope with the debates coming up!!! (Uh-huh.)

So...big government can't get water to people on time, can't pull their troops out of a "losing" war, can't manage our money, and they discriminate against gay people...BUT..."free" health care damn sure will be the NEXT GREAT THING!!!

Uh, yeah.
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Comments

  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    All you're saying is that we should never, under any circumstances, vote Republican. I can agree with that.


    And Obama's been against this war from the beginning.
  • sweet adelinesweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    RainDog wrote:
    All you're saying is that we should never, under any circumstances, vote Republican. I can agree with that.


    And Obama's been against this war from the beginning.

    i agree, elect the right people and its a plausible answer to a broken system.
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    RainDog wrote:
    All you're saying is that we should never, under any circumstances, vote Republican. I can agree with that.


    And Obama's been against this war from the beginning.

    You read into it how you want. All I remember is that Hlllary voted for this war along with a bunch of other Democrats. All of the other issues I listed have had Democrats neck deep in that policy too.

    Now if you truly want to admit to me that you think our government will run universal health care in a timely, cost effective way...and in a way that promotes one of the highest quality of care levels anywhere in the world...IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT...then I'll label myself the world biggest turd face in my next post.

    Yes, if you really believe that...I will type that I'm the "world's biggest turd face."

    Tempting, huh???
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  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    sweet adeline wrote:
    i agree, elect the right people and its a plausible answer to a broken system.

    Yeah, just like the Iraq war, right? And even if you DO elect the "right" people...(which is code for electing liberals)...then what should we do when the next group in office is another team of "war mongers" like Bush???
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  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    hailhailkc wrote:
    You read into it how you want. All I remember is that Hlllary voted for this war along with a bunch of other Democrats. All of the other issues I listed have had Democrats neck deep in that policy too.

    Now if you truly want to admit to me that you think our government will run universal health care in a timely, cost effective way...and in a way that promotes one of the highest quality of care levels anywhere in the world...IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT...then I'll label myself the world biggest turd face in my next post.

    Yes, if you really believe that...I will type that I'm the "world's biggest turd face."

    Tempting, huh???

    HHKC I have to agree with you. I would love to see some type of universal healthcare in this country, but i don't want our government anywhere within a 1,000 mile radius of it.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hailhailkc wrote:
    You read into it how you want. All I remember is that Hlllary voted for this war along with a bunch of other Democrats. All of the other issues I listed have had Democrats neck deep in that policy too.

    Now if you truly want to admit to me that you think our government will run universal health care in a timely, cost effective way...and in a way that promotes one of the highest quality of care levels anywhere in the world...IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT...then I'll label myself the world biggest turd face in my next post.

    Yes, if you really believe that...I will type that I'm the "world's biggest turd face."

    Tempting, huh???

    That all depends on who the american people are bold enough to vote in and who they'll have to work with. If we keep settling for the same old turds then nothing will change.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    mammasan wrote:
    HHKC I have to agree with you. I would love to see some type of universal healthcare in this country, but i don't want our government anywhere within a 1,000 mile radius of it.

    Yep. I don't mind it being universal. That's great. I just want it to be cost effective when it comes to our taxes...as in our taxes shouldn't be raised because they squander so much of our tax money anyway...and it should be high quality, and very efficient.

    Anytime you take something out of the private sector and put it into the hands of the government, you're asking for trouble. IMHO.
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  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    hailhailkc wrote:
    Yep. I don't mind it being universal. That's great. I just want it to be cost effective when it comes to our taxes...as in our taxes shouldn't be raised because they squander so much of our tax money anyway...and it should be high quality, and very efficient.

    Anytime you take something out of the private sector and put it into the hands of the government, you're asking for trouble. IMHO.


    Because the private sector is doing such a wonderful job, right?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • gue_bariumgue_barium Posts: 5,515
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Because the private sector is doing such a wonderful job, right?


    the actual healthcare professionals we have are brilliant.

    The health insurance agencies are the problem is it any real wonder they get thier funding through a similar style as the federal income tax?

    I'd say the biggest problems with healthcare in this country (outside of the obvious lack of public regard for a healthy lifestyle) are drug development companies and HMO's.

    We have got to find a way to get reasonable affordable preventative health care to everyone without destroying what does work with our system.

    A lot of this is going to take regulation.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    the actual healthcare professionals we have are brilliant.

    The health insurance agencies are the problem is it any real wonder they get thier funding through a similar style as the federal income tax?

    I'd say the biggest problems with healthcare in this country (outside of the obvious lack of public regard for a healthy lifestyle) are drug development companies and HMO's.

    We have got to find a way to get reasonable affordable preventative health care to everyone without destroying what does work with our system.

    A lot of this is going to take regulation.

    Health insurance is what I want to get rid of.

    What that is working for the system now that you would like to keep? I'm guessing you feel good doctors will decline? But I view the best doctors (and almost any other profession) as this...the ones who LOVE their job do it best...not the ones who are in it for the money.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    hailhailkc wrote:
    You read into it how you want. All I remember is that Hlllary voted for this war along with a bunch of other Democrats. All of the other issues I listed have had Democrats neck deep in that policy too.

    Now if you truly want to admit to me that you think our government will run universal health care in a timely, cost effective way...and in a way that promotes one of the highest quality of care levels anywhere in the world...IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT...then I'll label myself the world biggest turd face in my next post.

    Yes, if you really believe that...I will type that I'm the "world's biggest turd face."

    Tempting, huh???
    Could they? Yes, I think it's possible. Will they? That remains to be seen.

    You're right about the Democrats, though. Saying we should never vote Republican doesn't mean we should always vote Democratic.
  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Health insurance is what I want to get rid of.

    What that is working for the system now that you would like to keep? I'm guessing you feel good doctors will decline? But I view the best doctors (and almost any other profession) as this...the ones who LOVE their job do it best...not the ones who are in it for the money.


    yeah I feel you. The thing is since the 40's when withholding began for the war (and health insurance companies) began thier program as corporations got people to work for them by including health in thier total compensation package. Now the industry has gone out of control.

    Know 1 and I have discussed it at length. In the 30's did you need insurance to have a baby or go to the doctor to get a check up? Nope. Ok, so why now when you are most likely going to see an assistant anyway for a physical or what have you? The insurance company then charges you and your company by the pay period, and then a 20 dollar co pay and then decides what they pay the "in network" doctor... yeah that sounds great.... sign me up NOT!!

    It's BS. The idea of insurance is supposed to protect you against catastrophe, not be some kind of crutch depended on for tetnus shots and check ups.

    I don't want to abolish insurance for things like Cancer or Heart issues or that kind of thing, but I think preventative health care for everyone should be a lot more feaseable and it shouldn't require an act of congress for everyone to afford the occasional check up.
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I wonder the same thing... If our government is incapable of managing a National HealthCare system... how can it possibly build a nation from scratch on the other side of the planet in a region that is completely foriegn to us... while they are in the middle of a Civil War?
    ...
    Conversely, if it IS capable of completing this extremely complex task in the Middle East... how hard can it be for them to manage a national healthcare system at Home?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
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  • Pacomc79Pacomc79 Posts: 9,404
    Cosmo wrote:
    I wonder the same thing... If our government is incapable of managing a National HealthCare system... how can it possibly build a nation from scratch on the other side of the planet in a region that is completely foriegn to us... while they are in the middle of a Civil War?
    ...
    Conversely, if it IS capable of completing this extremely complex task in the Middle East... how hard can it be for them to manage a national healthcare system at Home?


    it's not that the job is to complex, it's the beuracracy.

    Partially the same reason the majority of the conflicts of the past half century have been titanic fuck ups.

    ....politics.


    you know what I would like the government to do though as a personal favor....

    Ban prescription drug adds. Then again every morning and evening broadcast news show would be bankrupt.

    I imagine prescription drugs could be cheaper if we eliminated thier marketing departments....
    My Girlfriend said to me..."How many guitars do you need?" and I replied...."How many pairs of shoes do you need?" She got really quiet.
  • AhnimusAhnimus Posts: 10,560
    I think y'all should vote in Ron Paul for a term so he can blow the lid off the Fed and then switch him up for a democrat in support of social health care.
    I necessarily have the passion for writing this, and you have the passion for condemning me; both of us are equally fools, equally the toys of destiny. Your nature is to do harm, mine is to love truth, and to make it public in spite of you. - Voltaire
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Pacomc79 wrote:
    it's not that the job is to complex, it's the beuracracy.

    Partially the same reason the majority of the conflicts of the past half century have been titanic fuck ups.

    ....politics.

    It's been such a major fuck up because the people's interests have never been in the forefront of policy making. You can't keep making decisions that only improve the outlook of a few and expect it to work for the whole.


    I believe government can work if it truely represents the people.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • AbookamongstthemanyAbookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Pacomc79 wrote:


    you know what I would like the government to do though as a personal favor....

    Ban prescription drug adds. Then again every morning and evening broadcast news show would be bankrupt.

    I imagine prescription drugs could be cheaper if we eliminated thier marketing departments....

    which is more bureaucracy...only it's the type that would benefit the people more.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,495
    RainDog wrote:
    All you're saying is that we should never, under any circumstances, vote Republican. I can agree with that.


    And Obama's been against this war from the beginning.

    Yeah exactly, nothing's ever messed up with Dems in charge...look at how much they get done.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • AbuskedtiAbuskedti Posts: 1,917
    hailhailkc wrote:
    You read into it how you want. All I remember is that Hlllary voted for this war along with a bunch of other Democrats. All of the other issues I listed have had Democrats neck deep in that policy too.

    Now if you truly want to admit to me that you think our government will run universal health care in a timely, cost effective way...and in a way that promotes one of the highest quality of care levels anywhere in the world...IF YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT...then I'll label myself the world biggest turd face in my next post.

    Yes, if you really believe that...I will type that I'm the "world's biggest turd face."

    Tempting, huh???

    If there were universal health care - then the poor and uninsured or underinsured would get vastly better healthcare.

    I spent 21 years in the military - the first half of my carreer, I went only to military hospitals and spoke to military doctors for myself, and my family. That was government universal healthcare - and I've never had better care.
  • RainDogRainDog Posts: 1,824
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Yeah exactly, nothing's ever messed up with Dems in charge...look at how much they get done.
    Like I said later, never vote Republican, occasionally vote Democratic.

    I've disliked both parties all my life. What amazes me the most these last six years is how much better, in my eyes, single party Republican government has made the Democrats look. And I tell ya, the Democrats don't look all that good.
  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    Socialized medicine might not be great, but it sure works a hell of a lot better than HMOs or free-market health care. Some kind of 2-tiered system would be optimal. Every citizen is covered for everything, but if you want to pay a private practise to get quicker treatment, you should be able to have that option. There are wait times here in Canada, no question. There are also doctor shortages in many cities (in my city, there is not a GP to be had if you didn't already have one, so you have to go to walk-in clinics to get checked out). However, having been through heart surgery as a 4-year old and after spending the better part of 8 months in the hospital due to complications with a broken femur, I am one lucky SOB to be a Canadian. If I wasn't, my parents (and now myself) would be working just to pay off my medical costs. My nephew in Indiana just got tubes in his ears and his parents had to pay $1800 (and they have coverage). That isn't right. It's time for the USA to leap into the 1950's and start providing their citizens with health care.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Songburst wrote:
    Socialized medicine might not be great, but it sure works a hell of a lot better than HMOs or free-market health care. Some kind of 2-tiered system would be optimal. Every citizen is covered for everything, but if you want to pay a private practise to get quicker treatment, you should be able to have that option. There are wait times here in Canada, no question. There are also doctor shortages in many cities (in my city, there is not a GP to be had if you didn't already have one, so you have to go to walk-in clinics to get checked out). However, having been through heart surgery as a 4-year old and after spending the better part of 8 months in the hospital due to complications with a broken femur, I am one lucky SOB to be a Canadian. If I wasn't, my parents (and now myself) would be working just to pay off my medical costs. My nephew in Indiana just got tubes in his ears and his parents had to pay $1800 (and they have coverage). That isn't right. It's time for the USA to leap into the 1950's and start providing their citizens with health care.

    I'm intrigued by the two tiered system theory. It's an interesting concept. Nice post.
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  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    RainDog wrote:
    Could they? Yes, I think it's possible. Will they? That remains to be seen.

    You're right about the Democrats, though. Saying we should never vote Republican doesn't mean we should always vote Democratic.

    Fair enough, well said.
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  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Cosmo wrote:
    I wonder the same thing... If our government is incapable of managing a National HealthCare system... how can it possibly build a nation from scratch on the other side of the planet in a region that is completely foriegn to us... while they are in the middle of a Civil War?

    LOL!!! Okay, okay...good post. Touche, indeed my good man. Touche.
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  • SongburstSongburst Posts: 1,195
    hailhailkc wrote:
    I'm intrigued by the two tiered system theory. It's an interesting concept. Nice post.
    Well it is the easy answer for now. When you start talking two-tiered systems, questions on who gets blood from the Red Cross, who gets transplants, etc, etc, crop up and it wouldn't be long until the private sector starts paying people to sign their donor cards or what have you. I think Canada is pretty close to being a great system, but allowing some private firms that provide MRIs (seems to be a big log-jam to get one of these in Canada unless it is an emergency) would go a long way in alleviating the wait times that many experience.
    1/12/1879, 4/8/1156, 2/6/1977, who gives a shit, ...
  • spongersponger Posts: 3,159
    ....
    reigning champion

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  • keeponrockinkeeponrockin Posts: 7,446
    So basically you're now saying that the president you support fucking sucks?

    I agree.
    Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
  • Medicated-GeniusMedicated-Genius Posts: 359
    Songburst wrote:
    Well it is the easy answer for now. When you start talking two-tiered systems, questions on who gets blood from the Red Cross, who gets transplants, etc, etc, crop up and it wouldn't be long until the private sector starts paying people to sign their donor cards or what have you. I think Canada is pretty close to being a great system, but allowing some private firms that provide MRIs (seems to be a big log-jam to get one of these in Canada unless it is an emergency) would go a long way in alleviating the wait times that many experience.


    We have a two-tiered system in place in Australia. I've never heard of a case of someone privately insured getting a transplant over someone publicly insured, or vice-versa. The actual standard of care in terms of state of the art equipment and the like is no different. The only difference between the two is the wait times for elective procedures, and the option of choosing your own doctor under private insurance.
  • fanch75fanch75 Posts: 3,734
    I'm listening to Def Leppard's "Rock of Ages" compilation, and it's awesome.
    Do you remember Rock & Roll Radio?
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