Because I love Irish women and Irish Ale, I embrace Ireland.
You have an extremely superficial understanding of cultures. Ireland is about more than drinking and horny bitches.
That aside, many people on this board exist well outside the mainstream culture of America. You may be atheist, anti-government. You may not read our newspapers. You may not even wish to defend this country. But, most Americans do and that is the cultural group I am referring to.
The culture of America comes from England - not Mexico or El Salvador. This nation is based on largely English traditions and even our common law comes from England. The language, the faith, and the system of law come from England; therefore, this nation is a continuation of largely English culture.
Is English culture welcoming to minorities? Certainly. But I would never presume to enter someone else's country without a certain deference to their history, laws, and faith.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
..
Then guess what? Punish them. Punish them if their name is Hernandez or O'Brian if they have no Drivers License... or no Auto Insurance. I'm not embracing criminals or crime. You just happen to equate crime with Mexicans... Mexicans with Illegal Aliens. I know that not all Mexicans are Illegal aliens.
That's where we differ. I want to go after the ones who commit crimes... you want to go after anyone who looks like they might commit a crime. Which one of of is more American... and which one is more Nazi?
...
Oh, yeah... why don't you look at the names of the Dead that are coming out of Iraq. See how many have 'Hispanic Sounding Names'. Call their families and tell them exactly what you told me.
Btw, don't ever say you're a Republican again. That was silliness.
The vast vast vast vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanics. It's foolish to even insinuate that there is a "profiling" problem here. Does that mean all hispanics are illegal aliens? No and no is saying that. You have to be realistic here - it's not going to bust my balls if I have to prove I am a citizen when I am stopped for a speeding ticket.
Plenty of hispanics coming out of Iraq. Mostly whites though. What's your point? Don't cheapen the sacrifice of the hispanics because you have an agenda - they clearly love their country. No one's disputing their worth to this nation.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
My stance on this has nothing to do with legal immigrants practicing or living within their own culture. In fact, I like the fact that there are different cultures in this country and that I can visit an area of town and find food/cooking of their culture, art of their culture, music of their culture and just every day culture living by people. I enjoy different cultures.
Different cultures makes life interesting. It provides the canvas with a plethora of different, vibrant colors, tastes, smells, people with interesting personalities and knowledge.
My problems with this issue are rooted in two things.
If they truely want to share their culture and not isolate themselves, then, they would make sure to provide themselves with a reasonable means of communication........with english speaking americans. They would have signs that advertise in their language and in english (funny that's what they expect and want from americans, but very rarely do I come across them doing the same thing). Their banners, store fronts, literature...etc...etc.....would provide english translations, so they can share their culture with americans. That's called showing respect for our country, people and their language. If I didn't already speak and read portugese and spanish; I wouldn't have any clue at all.
But so many of them don't do that. They are only interested in establishing a small version of the country they migrated from, in a very exclusive manner. They focus on their traditions, their culture and their language; while shunning the rest of the cities community. Then, when they have to travel outside of their community for work or other affairs; they run into enormous problems and difficulties. This situation is of no benefit to them or anyone else.
Lear the english language. Plain and simple.
I'm not saying they shouldn't speak their own cultural language. I couldn't give a crap what language they speak in their home, on their front porch or when they are strolling down the sidewalk. But learn english so when you encounter english peaking americans, english-orientated programs, english-orientated street signs and businesses; you can understand and be efficient and safe.
It's ridiculous so many of these people are in this country .....5 .....10 ...20 years and they still don't know the english language. Yet they expect everyone to learn their language, to make their lives easier.
My second problem pertains to illegal immigrants. For the very same reasons I have outlined up above and for the very same reasons MLC2006 stated.
Illegal immigrants present a major problem for all countries, not just the United States Of America. Historically illegal immigration has presented and created many social, financial and judicial problems, which over an exteneded amount of time can cripple a country.
you can't point to any part of my post where I tried to "equate crime with Mexicans". if they're here LEGALLY, then they'd have no reason to be driving around without a DL. there is NOTHING I've said that is intended for anyone who is here in this country illegally. the thousands of "Hispanic sounding names" that are arrested everyday AREN'T the ones who are here illegally. but see, that's a typical argument for people like you, you can't win an argument, so you try to resort to calling people racist, etc.
...
From MLC2006:
"look for the Hispanic sounding names and see how many are being arrested EVERYDAY for no DL and no insurance. then you have the problems with most of them not paying any kind of income tax or health insurance....the big businesses that support them get all the benefits while the tax paying citizens of this country foot the bill. then you have the problems with how easy it is for an illegal alien to commit a crime and then disappear because they are basically a ghost in this country. they can have as many names as they want, as many birthdays as they want, as many SSN, or no SSN at all. and about a million other problems that could be discussed. now if you love Mexican soccer and sangria, that is fucking great. but if you don't see this illegal immigration thing has the huge problem that it is, then you are too dumb for words."
...
From that... I extracted the following:
Hispanic sounding names arrested daily for no Driver's Licenses and no insurance.
"They" do not pay any income tax or health insurance.
Big business supporting "Them".
"They" commit crimes and disappear.
"They" have many aliases
"They" create a million other problems.
...
IF, as you said, "the thousands of "Hispanic sounding names" that are arrested everyday AREN'T the ones who are here illegally"... then, are they Americans with Hispanic names that you are having problems with? What is it... do you hate the Hispanics that are here illegally... or Hispanics in general?
And guess what? The "they" in your equation can be fitted to blacks or White people... can't they? I mean, don't many Americans do exactly the same things you are saying... drive without driver's licenses or auto insurance... avoid paying income tax... have aliases? Is it okay for Americans to commit these acts?
...
I say, go after the ones that commit the crimes... and don't do as you would and go after all of the ones that happen to fit the description. Last time i checked, this was still America, not Germany under Nazi rule. And if you ARE going to go after Illegal Immigrants, are you going to hold the people who are attracting them here as well? I'm talking about the American business owners that hire illegal workers... isn't that the source of your problem? Why not treat the disease, instead of treating the symptoms?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
You have an extremely superficial understanding of cultures. Ireland is about more than drinking and horny bitches.
That aside, many people on this board exist well outside the mainstream culture of America. You may be atheist, anti-government. You may not read our newspapers. You may not even wish to defend this country. But, most Americans do and that is the cultural group I am referring to.
The culture of America comes from England - not Mexico or El Salvador. This nation is based on largely English traditions and even our common law comes from England. The language, the faith, and the system of law come from England; therefore, this nation is a continuation of largely English culture.
Is English culture welcoming to minorities? Certainly. But I would never presume to enter someone else's country without a certain deference to their history, laws, and faith.
...
So... then, you are saying... The Irish should NOT hang the Irish colours outside their bars... they should dump the Guinness for Budwiser. So should the Germans and the Italians that live in this country.
Or is it just the Mexicans that should forget where they came from?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
So... then, you are saying... The Irish should NOT hang the Irish colours outside their bars... they should dump the Guinness for Budwiser. So should the Germans and the Italians that live in this country.
Or is it just the Mexicans that should forget where they came from?
All that stuff is of no consequence. I like Mexican food.
But this country comes first. That means respecting the institutions in place. Those are largely European institutions.
All I know is that to see, and not to speak, would be the great betrayal.
-Enoch Powell
Btw, don't ever say you're a Republican again. That was silliness.
The vast vast vast vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanics. It's foolish to even insinuate that there is a "profiling" problem here. Does that mean all hispanics are illegal aliens? No and no is saying that. You have to be realistic here - it's not going to bust my balls if I have to prove I am a citizen when I am stopped for a speeding ticket.
Plenty of hispanics coming out of Iraq. Mostly whites though. What's your point? Don't cheapen the sacrifice of the hispanics because you have an agenda - they clearly love their country. No one's disputing their worth to this nation.
...
You are such a silly little boy.
If the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are indeed, from Latin America, (a point I have never argued against)... why ISN'T there profiling going on here? You are the one being foolish believing it is not happening... I bet that you suspect the guys standing outside the Home Depot are here illegally... some are... other aren't. You may be able to tell just by looking at them... I can't.
As for the Iraq soldiers statements... the original member posted a message about 'Hispanic sounding names' as being the ills of our nation... I simply pointed out that 'Hispanic sounding names' serve this country in military uniform, too.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
All that stuff is of no consequence. I like Mexican food.
But this country comes first. That means respecting the institutions in place. Those are largely European institutions.
....
So... then, Europe is okay... Latin America isn't. Check.
...
And speaking of institutions... isn't most of Latin America Catholic? Should we toss out that Mexican Catholic stuff and just keep the Catholic stuff from Europe?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
...
From MLC2006:
"look for the Hispanic sounding names and see how many are being arrested EVERYDAY for no DL and no insurance. then you have the problems with most of them not paying any kind of income tax or health insurance....the big businesses that support them get all the benefits while the tax paying citizens of this country foot the bill. then you have the problems with how easy it is for an illegal alien to commit a crime and then disappear because they are basically a ghost in this country. they can have as many names as they want, as many birthdays as they want, as many SSN, or no SSN at all. and about a million other problems that could be discussed. now if you love Mexican soccer and sangria, that is fucking great. but if you don't see this illegal immigration thing has the huge problem that it is, then you are too dumb for words."
...
From that... I extracted the following:
Hispanic sounding names arrested daily for no Driver's Licenses and no insurance.
"They" do not pay any income tax or health insurance.
Big business supporting "Them".
"They" commit crimes and disappear.
"They" have many aliases
"They" create a million other problems.
...
IF, as you said, "the thousands of "Hispanic sounding names" that are arrested everyday AREN'T the ones who are here illegally"... then, are they Americans with Hispanic names that you are having problems with? What is it... do you hate the Hispanics that are here illegally... or Hispanics in general?
And guess what? The "they" in your equation can be fitted to blacks or White people... can't they? I mean, don't many Americans do exactly the same things you are saying... drive without driver's licenses or auto insurance... avoid paying income tax... have aliases? Is it okay for Americans to commit these acts?
...
I say, go after the ones that commit the crimes... and don't do as you would and go after all of the ones that happen to fit the description. Last time i checked, this was still America, not Germany under Nazi rule. And if you ARE going to go after Illegal Immigrants, are you going to hold the people who are attracting them here as well? I'm talking about the American business owners that hire illegal workers... isn't that the source of your problem? Why not treat the disease, instead of treating the symptoms?
first off, "they" does not mean "Mexicans", "they" means illegal aliens. if you extracted anything other than that, you're a dipshit. yes, I DID write the ones being arrested daily aren't the illegal ones.....that's called a TYPO. of course the ones being arrested everyday are the ILLEGAL ones. if they're here legally, they'd have no reason to be driving around with no DL and no insurance.
don't "MANY" Americans do the same things such as drive uninsured, no DL, etc? yes. now be the genius that you pretend to be and look at PERCENTAGES. the percentages for people who are in the country LEGALLY but driving with no DL or insurance isn't close to illegals that are doing it.
you say "go after the ones who commit the crimes"? well, then you agree with me. of course, walking across the border is a crime. should we go after the businesses that attract them here? goddamn right we should. and first go after the politicians who ignore their constituents and allow the business owners to get away with it.
You have an extremely superficial understanding of cultures. Ireland is about more than drinking and horny bitches.
That aside, many people on this board exist well outside the mainstream culture of America. You may be atheist, anti-government. You may not read our newspapers. You may not even wish to defend this country. But, most Americans do and that is the cultural group I am referring to.
The culture of America comes from England - not Mexico or El Salvador. This nation is based on largely English traditions and even our common law comes from England. The language, the faith, and the system of law come from England; therefore, this nation is a continuation of largely English culture.
Is English culture welcoming to minorities? Certainly. But I would never presume to enter someone else's country without a certain deference to their history, laws, and faith.
I beg to differ... America has become aborted from the monarchy altogether aside from their antiquated military perspective towards other cultures.
Canada is part of North America and still pledges oath to the queen.
You guys pledge oath to a fucking monkey.
edit: sorry...that was off side by about 10 yards...on a technical foul
Progress is not made by everyone joining some new fad,
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
...
You are such a silly little boy.
If the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are indeed, from Latin America, (a point I have never argued against)... why ISN'T there profiling going on here? You are the one being foolish believing it is not happening... I bet that you suspect the guys standing outside the Home Depot are here illegally... some are... other aren't. You may be able to tell just by looking at them... I can't.
As for the Iraq soldiers statements... the original member posted a message about 'Hispanic sounding names' as being the ills of our nation... I simply pointed out that 'Hispanic sounding names' serve this country in military uniform, too.
I think what the two people you are arguing with are trying to say is that they have no problem with Hispanics in general, but rather have a problem with the ones that sneak into this country illegally. That statement by itself holds no merit, but let me explain a little bit more.
First problem, when they sneak into this country through secret tunnels and whatnot they open up the possibility of terrorists also entering through those same passages.
Second problem, the latino gang problem... especially here in LA... is getting out of control. Many of them are illegals that came here and couldn't get a job due to their lack of legal paperwork, thus turned to the gang life. This is not a problem necessarily with illegals... as we know many of the gangs in our country are formed and maintained by legal residents... but the problem here in LA is definitely growing at an alarming rate within the latino community. A huge number of illegal gang members are arrested and then deported due to their lack of citizenship. They are now fighting with the black gangs for territory, and it's only going to get worse in these regions. When's the last time you have seen a Japanese gang or a German gang or an Australian gang in LA? I know they're out there, but they are not a growing epidemic of violence and crime like the latin gangs.
Third problem, a lot of the money that illegal Mexicans make in this country is saved and then sent down to their families in Mexico. I'm pretty sure they don't pay taxes on it, as most of them are paid under the table. Plus, it can't be good for our economy that money being paid by our businesses is funneling straight into Mexico and not reinvested into the country. They come into this country as a means to make money so they can go back into Mexico and retire at a lower cost of living. This is not done by all illegals, but it is definitely the dream that they probably initially have.
With that being said... I am definitely not a racist and have many Mexican friends... I am even dating a Mexican girl (she would definitely be arguing with me on this matter:D). I have complete respect for the Mexican community that abides by our laws and takes pride in our country. I am very proud of the latino men and women that are fighting for this country... they are braver than me. This argument has nothing to do with bashing hispanics, but merely looking at the statistics of what majority is entering this country illegally and causing damage. I know that the life in Mexico is tough and that their point of view is that the USA has a lot more opportunities to succeed in life, so I can also side with them. I just don't like the fact that it is affecting the lives of legal residents by way of higher insurance, crime, etc. I have no problem living side by side with them, as long as it doesn't affect me negatively.
Whoa, chill bro... you know you can't raise your voice like that when the lion's here.
first off, "they" does not mean "Mexicans", "they" means illegal aliens. if you extracted anything other than that, you're a dipshit. yes, I DID write the ones being arrested daily aren't the illegal ones.....that's called a TYPO. of course the ones being arrested everyday are the ILLEGAL ones. if they're here legally, they'd have no reason to be driving around with no DL and no insurance.
don't "MANY" Americans do the same things such as drive uninsured, no DL, etc? yes. now be the genius that you pretend to be and look at PERCENTAGES. the percentages for people who are in the country LEGALLY but driving with no DL or insurance isn't close to illegals that are doing it.
you say "go after the ones who commit the crimes"? well, then you agree with me. of course, walking across the border is a crime. should we go after the businesses that attract them here? goddamn right we should. and first go after the politicians who ignore their constituents and allow the business owners to get away with it.
...
Sorry... I had previously mistaken you as someone that was possible of articulating his/her thoughts... my bad.
I'm for going after criminals... the ones that are commiting the crimes. I would rather see the cops going after the mother fuckers firing guns from passing cars or carjacking Ford Explorers from soccer moms than stormtrooping in on the poor Mexican busboy at the local Dennys. Personally, I consider murder, rape, child molestation, kidnapping, torture, robbery, assault and a host of other crimes higher on the priority list than working here without the proper documentation.
And please, refer me to these 'Percentages' you are speaking of... if it is a website, please, provide the link. If is is a study not available online, please, provide the study and author so I can look it up. I'd like to verify them myself.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
I think what the two people you are arguing with are trying to say is that they have no problem with Hispanics in general, but rather have a problem with the ones that sneak into this country illegally. That statement by itself holds no merit, but let me explain a little bit more.
First problem, when they sneak into this country through secret tunnels and whatnot they open up the possibility of terrorists also entering through those same passages.
Second problem, the latino gang problem... especially here in LA... is getting out of control. Many of them are illegals that came here and couldn't get a job due to their lack of legal paperwork, thus turned to the gang life. This is not a problem necessarily with illegals... as we know many of the gangs in our country are formed and maintained by legal residents... but the problem here in LA is definitely growing at an alarming rate within the latino community. A huge number of illegal gang members are arrested and then deported due to their lack of citizenship. They are now fighting with the black gangs for territory, and it's only going to get worse in these regions. When's the last time you have seen a Japanese gang or a German gang or an Australian gang in LA? I know they're out there, but they are not a growing epidemic of violence and crime like the latin gangs.
Third problem, a lot of the money that illegal Mexicans make in this country is saved and then sent down to their families in Mexico. I'm pretty sure they don't pay taxes on it, as most of them are paid under the table. Plus, it can't be good for our economy that money being paid by our businesses is funneling straight into Mexico and not reinvested into the country. They come into this country as a means to make money so they can go back into Mexico and retire at a lower cost of living. This is not done by all illegals, but it is definitely the dream that they probably initially have.
With that being said... I am definitely not a racist and have many Mexican friends... I am even dating a Mexican girl (she would definitely be arguing with me on this matter:D). I have complete respect for the Mexican community that abides by our laws and takes pride in our country. I am very proud of the latino men and women that are fighting for this country... they are braver than me. This argument has nothing to do with bashing hispanics, but merely looking at the statistics of what majority is entering this country illegally and causing damage. I know that the life in Mexico is tough and that their point of view is that the USA has a lot more opportunities to succeed in life, so I can also side with them. I just don't like the fact that it is affecting the lives of legal residents by way of higher insurance, crime, etc. I have no problem living side by side with them, as long as it doesn't affect me negatively.
...
I understand where you are coming from. And I agree with you. Don't cast an eye of suspecion on someone... just because they are Hispanic. If they are commiting a violent crime... citizen or illegal... go after them.
The only thing I can say I disagree with... is the assumption that they want to stay here. Many are here for one reason... this is where the jobs are. I see it the same way an American goes to Saudi Arabia to work. Should the American worker embrace Saudi Arabian culture? Learn the language? Should he spend all of the money he earns over there... over there, in Saudi Arabia... instead of sending it home to his family here in America? If we want them to pay taxes... make the employers withhold taxes... and remove the option that allows all taxpayers to avoid withholdings... so someone here illegally can't do it either.
...
Now, the CorporateWhore guy... he thinks that immigrants (legal ones) should drop their alliegence of their former countries and adopt America as their own. To which I ask, then that would mean the Irish living here should lose their pride, too... right? No, he replies... just the Mexicans.
The other guy... MCL2006 is nothing more than a gigantic ignorant douchebag that probably gets all of his information from Lou Dobbs.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Whether its Little Dublin, Little Italy, or Chinatown, those places are merely tourist attractions. The people that run the businesses there operate under the assumption that they are Americans.
I don't know if you've ever been to an Irish bar in Alexandria, VA, but they have some of the best. They also are the most patriotic americans you can find. Americans first.
If you go to Miami, they are not americans first. They are Cubans, Colombians, Mexicans, or Dominicans first. Screw hyphenated americans. 100% or leave.
Who gives a crap about patriotism or what nationality people are.
...
I understand where you are coming from. And I agree with you. Don't cast an eye of suspecion on someone... just because they are Hispanic. If they are commiting a violent crime... citizen or illegal... go after them.
The only thing I can say I disagree with... is the assumption that they want to stay here. Many are here for one reason... this is where the jobs are. I see it the same way an American goes to Saudi Arabia to work. Should the American worker embrace Saudi Arabian culture? Learn the language? Should he spend all of the money he earns over there... over there, in Saudi Arabia... instead of sending it home to his family here in America? If we want them to pay taxes... make the employers withhold taxes... and remove the option that allows all taxpayers to avoid withholdings... so someone here illegally can't do it either.
Okay... but a couple things come to mind. Are Americans entering into Saudi Arabia illegally? If they are then I guess what I have to say is not valid. However, most likely they are entering legally and abiding by whatever statutes the Saudi government is applying. Basically they are following the rules that the Saudi government has put in place for foreign workers.
Also, I am a believer that Americans should embrace the culture of wherever they decide to move to. We are no better than anyone else, so why should we take for granted the language and culture. If I decided to move to say Japan, I would try my best to learn Japanese and would not rely on hoping that everyone I met spoke English. I also would learn and respect their way of life and understand that... while different... it is theirs, and I am the visitor in their country. Same goes for any other nation.
Whoa, chill bro... you know you can't raise your voice like that when the lion's here.
...The only thing I can say I disagree with... is the assumption that they want to stay here. Many are here for one reason... this is where the jobs are. I see it the same way an American goes to Saudi Arabia to work. Should the American worker embrace Saudi Arabian culture? Learn the language? Should he spend all of the money he earns over there... over there, in Saudi Arabia... instead of sending it home to his family here in America? If we want them to pay taxes... make the employers withhold taxes... and remove the option that allows all taxpayers to avoid withholdings... so someone here illegally can't do it either.
....
You're not comparing apples to apples.
Americans who go to Saudi Arabia to work, are sent there/assigned there by either American owned corporations or corporations with partial Saudi interests/ownership. In most cases these people are technical or engineering specialists, or some kind specialist/experts in their chosen field who are assigned for specific projects. Or they're freelancers in the above mentioned fields hired by Saudi corporations. This applies to several middle eastern countries.
Furthermore, when these people do go over there, they are given specific instructions on how to behave, interact, communicate and conduct themselves in Saudi Arabia (or any middle eastern country), so they don't offend or insult the people and culture of those countries.
I know an engineer who has been assigned....... back and forth to Saudi Arabia and back to the US, for the last ten years. I have spoken with him many, many times about his work and what's like to go there. Over the years he has learned to speak a reasonable amount of Arabic. Not because he really had to ( because English is fairly common there, especially in the corporate world of Saudi Arabia), but because he felt he should.
Saudia Arabia is a very strict country with many (what many of us Americans would consider) odd and archaic laws. Here's a excerpt from an article regarding Linux, in Saudia Arabia:
" We'll explore specifics of the country's IT plans -- and how Linux and open source fit into them -- over the next few days. This article is a bit of an "introduction to Saudi Arabian society" based on conversations with local Linux developers and advocates. Their names have been left out to keep any of them from getting in trouble with the local law; despite recent liberalizations this is still a country where a man caught driving his sister's friend home can be sentenced to receive a public whipping.
Indeed, this actually happened to one local Linux developer. The police caught him giving his sister's friend a ride and assumed they were dating, which violates religious statutes here. While we hear that it's not uncommon for young Saudi males to spend their evenings riding around in their cars, trying to pick up young Saudi females -- who sometimes allow themselves to be picked up (not necessarily for sex, but as a way to meet boys), even though this activity is illegal for both parties.
Our Linux developer managed to escape his lashing due to intervention by a liberal local politician, but he is still wary whenever he comes to one of the many government checkpoints that stop traffic all over this city to search for terrorists -- and keep an eye out for any other lawbreaking, too.
This is a "tight" country by world standards, even if not everyone sentenced to a lashing actually has the sentence carried out. There is (officially) no premarital or extramarital sex, no music, no dating, no alcohol, and no pornography...."
And that's just the tip of the iceberg regarding their laws and culture.
American-born people don't flee the United States, to take up illegal residence in Saudia Arabia. It doesn't happen. In Saudia Arabia your lucky if a fly can enter the country, unnoticed:D
I'm pointing out one specific facet of the immigration issue... the sending of wages to Mexico.
Many of the immigrants are here for the work. They send the money back home to their families. They have no interest in becoming American Citizens and acclaimating to American culture. I'm not talking about the aquisition of legal documents or anything else... I'm addressing the one point that people consistantly point out... wages being sent across the border.
And guess what? Many who are here LEGALLY do the same thing... send U.S. earned wages to their families in other countries. If immigration reform is enacted and everyone here gets the proper working papers to work here... will sending U.S. earned wages back to Mexico become a non-issue?
That's the specific point I am arguing.
...
On the broader issue of immigration in general. If the only issue is attaining legal working papers... and Mexico's side is so corupt... then, we need to take over the operation. We need to take over the documentaion process. and we NEED to go after the people here who are benefitting from the illegal wages being paid to illegal workers... the farmers, restaurant owners, landscapers, construction contractors, warehouse owners, the home owner who picks up workers outside the Home Depot to bust out their old driveway, etc... They are all criminals too, in this equation.
Any bills, fines, court costs, transportation costs and all other expenses incurred by Mexican citizens should be billed to Mexico. Take it out of the millions of tax dollars we funnel into the pockets of Mexico's leaders on an annual basis.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
You have an extremely superficial understanding of cultures. Ireland is about more than drinking and horny bitches.
That aside, many people on this board exist well outside the mainstream culture of America. You may be atheist, anti-government. You may not read our newspapers. You may not even wish to defend this country. But, most Americans do and that is the cultural group I am referring to.
The culture of America comes from England - not Mexico or El Salvador. This nation is based on largely English traditions and even our common law comes from England. The language, the faith, and the system of law come from England; therefore, this nation is a continuation of largely English culture.
Is English culture welcoming to minorities? Certainly. But I would never presume to enter someone else's country without a certain deference to their history, laws, and faith.
-Enoch Powell
Btw, don't ever say you're a Republican again. That was silliness.
The vast vast vast vast majority of illegal immigrants are hispanics. It's foolish to even insinuate that there is a "profiling" problem here. Does that mean all hispanics are illegal aliens? No and no is saying that. You have to be realistic here - it's not going to bust my balls if I have to prove I am a citizen when I am stopped for a speeding ticket.
Plenty of hispanics coming out of Iraq. Mostly whites though. What's your point? Don't cheapen the sacrifice of the hispanics because you have an agenda - they clearly love their country. No one's disputing their worth to this nation.
-Enoch Powell
Different cultures makes life interesting. It provides the canvas with a plethora of different, vibrant colors, tastes, smells, people with interesting personalities and knowledge.
My problems with this issue are rooted in two things.
If they truely want to share their culture and not isolate themselves, then, they would make sure to provide themselves with a reasonable means of communication........with english speaking americans. They would have signs that advertise in their language and in english (funny that's what they expect and want from americans, but very rarely do I come across them doing the same thing). Their banners, store fronts, literature...etc...etc.....would provide english translations, so they can share their culture with americans. That's called showing respect for our country, people and their language. If I didn't already speak and read portugese and spanish; I wouldn't have any clue at all.
But so many of them don't do that. They are only interested in establishing a small version of the country they migrated from, in a very exclusive manner. They focus on their traditions, their culture and their language; while shunning the rest of the cities community. Then, when they have to travel outside of their community for work or other affairs; they run into enormous problems and difficulties. This situation is of no benefit to them or anyone else.
Lear the english language. Plain and simple.
I'm not saying they shouldn't speak their own cultural language. I couldn't give a crap what language they speak in their home, on their front porch or when they are strolling down the sidewalk. But learn english so when you encounter english peaking americans, english-orientated programs, english-orientated street signs and businesses; you can understand and be efficient and safe.
It's ridiculous so many of these people are in this country .....5 .....10 ...20 years and they still don't know the english language. Yet they expect everyone to learn their language, to make their lives easier.
My second problem pertains to illegal immigrants. For the very same reasons I have outlined up above and for the very same reasons MLC2006 stated.
Illegal immigrants present a major problem for all countries, not just the United States Of America. Historically illegal immigration has presented and created many social, financial and judicial problems, which over an exteneded amount of time can cripple a country.
This is where my problems lie, with this issue.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
A truly liberal person is conservative when necessary.
Pro-life by choice.
From MLC2006:
"look for the Hispanic sounding names and see how many are being arrested EVERYDAY for no DL and no insurance. then you have the problems with most of them not paying any kind of income tax or health insurance....the big businesses that support them get all the benefits while the tax paying citizens of this country foot the bill. then you have the problems with how easy it is for an illegal alien to commit a crime and then disappear because they are basically a ghost in this country. they can have as many names as they want, as many birthdays as they want, as many SSN, or no SSN at all. and about a million other problems that could be discussed. now if you love Mexican soccer and sangria, that is fucking great. but if you don't see this illegal immigration thing has the huge problem that it is, then you are too dumb for words."
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From that... I extracted the following:
Hispanic sounding names arrested daily for no Driver's Licenses and no insurance.
"They" do not pay any income tax or health insurance.
Big business supporting "Them".
"They" commit crimes and disappear.
"They" have many aliases
"They" create a million other problems.
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IF, as you said, "the thousands of "Hispanic sounding names" that are arrested everyday AREN'T the ones who are here illegally"... then, are they Americans with Hispanic names that you are having problems with? What is it... do you hate the Hispanics that are here illegally... or Hispanics in general?
And guess what? The "they" in your equation can be fitted to blacks or White people... can't they? I mean, don't many Americans do exactly the same things you are saying... drive without driver's licenses or auto insurance... avoid paying income tax... have aliases? Is it okay for Americans to commit these acts?
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I say, go after the ones that commit the crimes... and don't do as you would and go after all of the ones that happen to fit the description. Last time i checked, this was still America, not Germany under Nazi rule. And if you ARE going to go after Illegal Immigrants, are you going to hold the people who are attracting them here as well? I'm talking about the American business owners that hire illegal workers... isn't that the source of your problem? Why not treat the disease, instead of treating the symptoms?
Hail, Hail!!!
So... then, you are saying... The Irish should NOT hang the Irish colours outside their bars... they should dump the Guinness for Budwiser. So should the Germans and the Italians that live in this country.
Or is it just the Mexicans that should forget where they came from?
Hail, Hail!!!
All that stuff is of no consequence. I like Mexican food.
But this country comes first. That means respecting the institutions in place. Those are largely European institutions.
-Enoch Powell
You are such a silly little boy.
If the vast, vast, vast, vast majority of illegal immigrants are indeed, from Latin America, (a point I have never argued against)... why ISN'T there profiling going on here? You are the one being foolish believing it is not happening... I bet that you suspect the guys standing outside the Home Depot are here illegally... some are... other aren't. You may be able to tell just by looking at them... I can't.
As for the Iraq soldiers statements... the original member posted a message about 'Hispanic sounding names' as being the ills of our nation... I simply pointed out that 'Hispanic sounding names' serve this country in military uniform, too.
Hail, Hail!!!
So... then, Europe is okay... Latin America isn't. Check.
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And speaking of institutions... isn't most of Latin America Catholic? Should we toss out that Mexican Catholic stuff and just keep the Catholic stuff from Europe?
Hail, Hail!!!
first off, "they" does not mean "Mexicans", "they" means illegal aliens. if you extracted anything other than that, you're a dipshit. yes, I DID write the ones being arrested daily aren't the illegal ones.....that's called a TYPO. of course the ones being arrested everyday are the ILLEGAL ones. if they're here legally, they'd have no reason to be driving around with no DL and no insurance.
don't "MANY" Americans do the same things such as drive uninsured, no DL, etc? yes. now be the genius that you pretend to be and look at PERCENTAGES. the percentages for people who are in the country LEGALLY but driving with no DL or insurance isn't close to illegals that are doing it.
you say "go after the ones who commit the crimes"? well, then you agree with me. of course, walking across the border is a crime. should we go after the businesses that attract them here? goddamn right we should. and first go after the politicians who ignore their constituents and allow the business owners to get away with it.
I beg to differ... America has become aborted from the monarchy altogether aside from their antiquated military perspective towards other cultures.
Canada is part of North America and still pledges oath to the queen.
You guys pledge oath to a fucking monkey.
edit: sorry...that was off side by about 10 yards...on a technical foul
and reveling in it's loyalty. It's made by forming coalitions
over specific principles, goals, and policies.
http://i36.tinypic.com/66j31x.jpg
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I think what the two people you are arguing with are trying to say is that they have no problem with Hispanics in general, but rather have a problem with the ones that sneak into this country illegally. That statement by itself holds no merit, but let me explain a little bit more.
First problem, when they sneak into this country through secret tunnels and whatnot they open up the possibility of terrorists also entering through those same passages.
Second problem, the latino gang problem... especially here in LA... is getting out of control. Many of them are illegals that came here and couldn't get a job due to their lack of legal paperwork, thus turned to the gang life. This is not a problem necessarily with illegals... as we know many of the gangs in our country are formed and maintained by legal residents... but the problem here in LA is definitely growing at an alarming rate within the latino community. A huge number of illegal gang members are arrested and then deported due to their lack of citizenship. They are now fighting with the black gangs for territory, and it's only going to get worse in these regions. When's the last time you have seen a Japanese gang or a German gang or an Australian gang in LA? I know they're out there, but they are not a growing epidemic of violence and crime like the latin gangs.
Third problem, a lot of the money that illegal Mexicans make in this country is saved and then sent down to their families in Mexico. I'm pretty sure they don't pay taxes on it, as most of them are paid under the table. Plus, it can't be good for our economy that money being paid by our businesses is funneling straight into Mexico and not reinvested into the country. They come into this country as a means to make money so they can go back into Mexico and retire at a lower cost of living. This is not done by all illegals, but it is definitely the dream that they probably initially have.
With that being said... I am definitely not a racist and have many Mexican friends... I am even dating a Mexican girl (she would definitely be arguing with me on this matter:D). I have complete respect for the Mexican community that abides by our laws and takes pride in our country. I am very proud of the latino men and women that are fighting for this country... they are braver than me. This argument has nothing to do with bashing hispanics, but merely looking at the statistics of what majority is entering this country illegally and causing damage. I know that the life in Mexico is tough and that their point of view is that the USA has a lot more opportunities to succeed in life, so I can also side with them. I just don't like the fact that it is affecting the lives of legal residents by way of higher insurance, crime, etc. I have no problem living side by side with them, as long as it doesn't affect me negatively.
Sorry... I had previously mistaken you as someone that was possible of articulating his/her thoughts... my bad.
I'm for going after criminals... the ones that are commiting the crimes. I would rather see the cops going after the mother fuckers firing guns from passing cars or carjacking Ford Explorers from soccer moms than stormtrooping in on the poor Mexican busboy at the local Dennys. Personally, I consider murder, rape, child molestation, kidnapping, torture, robbery, assault and a host of other crimes higher on the priority list than working here without the proper documentation.
And please, refer me to these 'Percentages' you are speaking of... if it is a website, please, provide the link. If is is a study not available online, please, provide the study and author so I can look it up. I'd like to verify them myself.
Hail, Hail!!!
I understand where you are coming from. And I agree with you. Don't cast an eye of suspecion on someone... just because they are Hispanic. If they are commiting a violent crime... citizen or illegal... go after them.
The only thing I can say I disagree with... is the assumption that they want to stay here. Many are here for one reason... this is where the jobs are. I see it the same way an American goes to Saudi Arabia to work. Should the American worker embrace Saudi Arabian culture? Learn the language? Should he spend all of the money he earns over there... over there, in Saudi Arabia... instead of sending it home to his family here in America? If we want them to pay taxes... make the employers withhold taxes... and remove the option that allows all taxpayers to avoid withholdings... so someone here illegally can't do it either.
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Now, the CorporateWhore guy... he thinks that immigrants (legal ones) should drop their alliegence of their former countries and adopt America as their own. To which I ask, then that would mean the Irish living here should lose their pride, too... right? No, he replies... just the Mexicans.
The other guy... MCL2006 is nothing more than a gigantic ignorant douchebag that probably gets all of his information from Lou Dobbs.
Hail, Hail!!!
Who gives a crap about patriotism or what nationality people are.
Okay... but a couple things come to mind. Are Americans entering into Saudi Arabia illegally? If they are then I guess what I have to say is not valid. However, most likely they are entering legally and abiding by whatever statutes the Saudi government is applying. Basically they are following the rules that the Saudi government has put in place for foreign workers.
Also, I am a believer that Americans should embrace the culture of wherever they decide to move to. We are no better than anyone else, so why should we take for granted the language and culture. If I decided to move to say Japan, I would try my best to learn Japanese and would not rely on hoping that everyone I met spoke English. I also would learn and respect their way of life and understand that... while different... it is theirs, and I am the visitor in their country. Same goes for any other nation.
You're not comparing apples to apples.
Americans who go to Saudi Arabia to work, are sent there/assigned there by either American owned corporations or corporations with partial Saudi interests/ownership. In most cases these people are technical or engineering specialists, or some kind specialist/experts in their chosen field who are assigned for specific projects. Or they're freelancers in the above mentioned fields hired by Saudi corporations. This applies to several middle eastern countries.
Furthermore, when these people do go over there, they are given specific instructions on how to behave, interact, communicate and conduct themselves in Saudi Arabia (or any middle eastern country), so they don't offend or insult the people and culture of those countries.
I know an engineer who has been assigned....... back and forth to Saudi Arabia and back to the US, for the last ten years. I have spoken with him many, many times about his work and what's like to go there. Over the years he has learned to speak a reasonable amount of Arabic. Not because he really had to ( because English is fairly common there, especially in the corporate world of Saudi Arabia), but because he felt he should.
Saudia Arabia is a very strict country with many (what many of us Americans would consider) odd and archaic laws. Here's a excerpt from an article regarding Linux, in Saudia Arabia:
" We'll explore specifics of the country's IT plans -- and how Linux and open source fit into them -- over the next few days. This article is a bit of an "introduction to Saudi Arabian society" based on conversations with local Linux developers and advocates. Their names have been left out to keep any of them from getting in trouble with the local law; despite recent liberalizations this is still a country where a man caught driving his sister's friend home can be sentenced to receive a public whipping.
Indeed, this actually happened to one local Linux developer. The police caught him giving his sister's friend a ride and assumed they were dating, which violates religious statutes here. While we hear that it's not uncommon for young Saudi males to spend their evenings riding around in their cars, trying to pick up young Saudi females -- who sometimes allow themselves to be picked up (not necessarily for sex, but as a way to meet boys), even though this activity is illegal for both parties.
Our Linux developer managed to escape his lashing due to intervention by a liberal local politician, but he is still wary whenever he comes to one of the many government checkpoints that stop traffic all over this city to search for terrorists -- and keep an eye out for any other lawbreaking, too.
This is a "tight" country by world standards, even if not everyone sentenced to a lashing actually has the sentence carried out. There is (officially) no premarital or extramarital sex, no music, no dating, no alcohol, and no pornography.... "
And that's just the tip of the iceberg regarding their laws and culture.
American-born people don't flee the United States, to take up illegal residence in Saudia Arabia. It doesn't happen. In Saudia Arabia your lucky if a fly can enter the country, unnoticed:D
Many of the immigrants are here for the work. They send the money back home to their families. They have no interest in becoming American Citizens and acclaimating to American culture. I'm not talking about the aquisition of legal documents or anything else... I'm addressing the one point that people consistantly point out... wages being sent across the border.
And guess what? Many who are here LEGALLY do the same thing... send U.S. earned wages to their families in other countries. If immigration reform is enacted and everyone here gets the proper working papers to work here... will sending U.S. earned wages back to Mexico become a non-issue?
That's the specific point I am arguing.
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On the broader issue of immigration in general. If the only issue is attaining legal working papers... and Mexico's side is so corupt... then, we need to take over the operation. We need to take over the documentaion process. and we NEED to go after the people here who are benefitting from the illegal wages being paid to illegal workers... the farmers, restaurant owners, landscapers, construction contractors, warehouse owners, the home owner who picks up workers outside the Home Depot to bust out their old driveway, etc... They are all criminals too, in this equation.
Any bills, fines, court costs, transportation costs and all other expenses incurred by Mexican citizens should be billed to Mexico. Take it out of the millions of tax dollars we funnel into the pockets of Mexico's leaders on an annual basis.
Hail, Hail!!!