Ron Paul on Colbert

KidCarnivore
KidCarnivore Posts: 82
edited June 2007 in A Moving Train
I thought Paul did a pretty good job, it was pretty comical to see him waving his hand around at all the agencies and programs he'd like to abolish.
"All governments are murderers and liars."
-Bill Hicks
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Can't wait to see this one.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Bu2
    Bu2 Posts: 1,693
    if you had a video or website to point us all to.
    Feels Good Inc.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Bu2 wrote:
    if you had a video or website to point us all to.

    Since you asked nicely. ;)


    http://www.youtube.com/v/ozrCT2fA4qQ&autoplay
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    Ron Paul is asked about what he would have done for Katrina victims.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIzP8ONtkv8
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Ron Paul is asked about what he would have done for Katrina victims.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIzP8ONtkv8

    Answer me this why would you want the government to get involved when the job they did was so pathetic. How did people recover from natural diseasters before FEMA?
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    mammasan wrote:
    Answer me this why would you want the government to get involved when the job they did was so pathetic. How did people recover from natural diseasters before FEMA?

    Just because the response was terrible doesn't mean it can't be fixed and greatly improved.

    There were many that were left without assistance and aid throughout history because of the lack of a safety net. I'm all for getting rid of government that's unneeded, intrusive and power hungry. But I'm not about to let the good social programs we have protecting the less fortunate be grouped into that catagory. Private businesses for the overwhelming most part only care about their bottom line and can't be trusted to care for people. Look at insurance companies today...they do everything they can to keep from paying for the medical needs of their customers. It's sick.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Just because the responsed was terribl;e doesn't mean it can't be fixed and greatly improved.

    There were many that were left without assistance and aid throughout history because of the lack of a safety net. I'm all for getting rid of government that's unneeded, intrusive and power hungry. But I'm not about to let the good social programs we have protecting the less fortunate be grouped into that catagory. Private businesses for the overwhelming most part only care about their bottom line and can't be trusted to care for people. Look at insurance companies today...they do everything they can to keep from paying for the medical needs of their customers. It's sick.

    But you automatically think that if the federal government isn't doing it than we leave it to corporate America. What about on a more localized level.

    A good example would be what Bloomberg has been doing in NYC. He has taken the initiate to raise private funds to help subsidize affordable housing in the city for low income families. He didn't need big brother to do that. He has raised test scores and graduation rates in NYC. he didn't need big brother to do that. NYC has programs for insuring low income families. Again he didn't need big brother to do that.

    As far as finacial assistance for diseaster relief I am damn sure that charitable organizations can do 100 times better than the federal government. Paul wasn't advocating that the federal government should go in and conduct resue operations or the use of the National Guard. he simply stated that the federal government does a horrible job at centralized capital management so let's leave it up to organizations that will do a better job.

    The federal government and many of it's programs and agencies are broken and the reality of it is that it will never be fixed because the rot extends down to the very foundation. When the foundation of a house is rotted and decrepid you don't fix it by putting up new siding. You demo the house and rebuild it.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    mammasan wrote:
    But you automatically think that if the federal government isn't doing it than we leave it to corporate America. What about on a more localized level.

    A good example would be what Bloomberg has been doing in NYC. He has taken the initiate to raise private funds to help subsidize affordable housing in the city for low income families. He didn't need big brother to do that. He has raised test scores and graduation rates in NYC. he didn't need big brother to do that. NYC has programs for insuring low income families. Again he didn't need big brother to do that.

    As far as finacial assistance for diseaster relief I am damn sure that charitable organizations can do 100 times better than the federal government. Paul wasn't advocating that the federal government should go in and conduct resue operations or the use of the National Guard. he simply stated that the federal government does a horrible job at centralized capital management so let's leave it up to organizations that will do a better job.

    The federal government and many of it's programs and agencies are broken and the reality of it is that it will never be fixed because the rot extends down to the very foundation. When the foundation of a house is rotted and decrepid you don't fix it by putting up new siding. You demo the house and rebuild it.


    Sure some private interests and donations can work some of the time. But is your example happening all over? I just don't buy it. I don't buy into to the isolationist views of Paul. Too many will fall through the cracks. I believe in strong social programs that enrich society...where the less fortunate aren't viewed as a burden but as an opportunity to better someone's life and build a stronger citizenry.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Sure some private interests and donations can work some of the time. But is your example happening all over? I just don't buy it. I don't buy into to the isolationist views of Paul. Too many will fall through the cracks. I believe in strong social programs that enrich society...where the less fortunate aren't viewed as a burden but as an opportunity to better someone's life and build a stronger citizenry.

    Even with these social programs these people are viewed as a burden because these social programs don't help them but provide for them instead. NYC has also been able to reduce the amount of people on welfare through a work/education programs where welfare recipients can obtain employment and free education in order to better their lives instead of living week to week waiting for the government to hand out their shares. What ever the federal government provides for the people can be mirrored more effectively and at a reduced cost to the general public.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    mammasan wrote:
    Even with these social programs these people are viewed as a burden because these social programs don't help them but provide for them instead. NYC has also been able to reduce the amount of people on welfare through a work/education programs where welfare recipients can obtain employment and free education in order to better their lives instead of living week to week waiting for the government to hand out their shares. What ever the federal government provides for the people can be mirrored more effectively and at a reduced cost to the general public.

    NYC has a bit more money that the average city. You trust private interests, I don't. That's what it really boils down to.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    NYC has a bit more money that the average city. You trust private interests, I don't. That's what it really boils down to.

    Fine NYc may have more money but in the cases of small towns you can then turn it into a county wide system instead of just one municipality. Also it's not private interests that i trust, it's community interests. Secondly not all corporations are evil Enrons ther are many that do alot for the communities they inhabit. I would say that there are more good companies than bad in this country and even the bad ones can be made to aid the communities they serve.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • El_Kabong
    El_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Sure some private interests and donations can work some of the time. But is your example happening all over? I just don't buy it. I don't buy into to the isolationist views of Paul. Too many will fall through the cracks. I believe in strong social programs that enrich society...where the less fortunate aren't viewed as a burden but as an opportunity to better someone's life and build a stronger citizenry.


    like dennis kucinich's environmental renewal and clean energy program tied in w/ his job plan??

    :D

    http://kucinich.us/issues/environment.php

    http://kucinich.us/issues/jobs.php
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    El_Kabong wrote:
    like dennis kucinich's environmental renewal and clean energy program tied in w/ his job plan??

    :D

    http://kucinich.us/issues/environment.php

    http://kucinich.us/issues/jobs.php

    I think Kucinich has some great ideas but I see one fundamental flaw with him and that is that his plans would only add to the size of government. Now Kucinich may be a man of prinicple and integrity and not take advantage of that increase in size and power, but what about the next president or the one after that.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • baraka
    baraka Posts: 1,268
    mammasan wrote:
    Even with these social programs these people are viewed as a burden because these social programs don't help them but provide for them instead. NYC has also been able to reduce the amount of people on welfare through a work/education programs where welfare recipients can obtain employment and free education in order to better their lives instead of living week to week waiting for the government to hand out their shares. What ever the federal government provides for the people can be mirrored more effectively and at a reduced cost to the general public.

    The above is an example of how our social programs can be improved, providing tools such as work/education programs, but it is a social program nonetheless.

    As far as charities replacing social programs, most charities are small, highly localized and ill-suited to responding to national disasters or shifting economic trends. The majority of charity funds are collected and spent locally, which means that rich communities tend to have well-funded charities, and poor communities tend to have poorly funded ones.
    The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance,
    but the illusion of knowledge.
    ~Daniel Boorstin

    Only a life lived for others is worth living.
    ~Albert Einstein
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    baraka wrote:
    The above is an example of how our social programs can be improved, providing tools such as work/education programs, but it is a social program nonetheless.

    As far as charities replacing social programs, most charities are small, highly localized and ill-suited to responding to national disasters or shifting economic trends. The majority of charity funds are collected and spent locally, which means that rich communities tend to have well-funded charities, and poor communities tend to have poorly funded ones.

    When it comes to diseaster reliefs, I'll use Katrina and 9/11 as an example, how many thousands of millions of dollars where collected through charitable organizations. How many well off individuals took the initiative, especially during Katrina, to provide aid on their own. We don't need the federal government for this. We have all been spoon fed since birth that we need the government, but the truth of the matter is that for a few exceptions we don't need the federal government or their inept and over bloated programs.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    mammasan wrote:
    When it comes to diseaster reliefs, I'll use Katrina and 9/11 as an example, how many thousands of millions of dollars where collected through charitable organizations. How many well off individuals took the initiative, especially during Katrina, to provide aid on their own. We don't need the federal government for this. We have all been spoon fed since birth that we need the government, but the truth of the matter is that for a few exceptions we don't need the federal government or their inept and over bloated programs.

    have any audits been done with that money donated?? ... i'm pretty sure most of that money has never made it to people or programs who most needed it ...

    yes - people are charitable but things like that take time to mobilize ... a situation like any disaster relief should be handled by a gov't agency trained and efficient ... you can't organize supplies, helicopters, firefighters, paramedics, triage centers without the proper experience and undetermined funds ...
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    polaris wrote:
    have any audits been done with that money donated?? ... i'm pretty sure most of that money has never made it to people or programs who most needed it ...

    yes - people are charitable but things like that take time to mobilize ... a situation like any disaster relief should be handled by a gov't agency trained and efficient ... you can't organize supplies, helicopters, firefighters, paramedics, triage centers without the proper experience and undetermined funds ...


    then the funds that would normally be set aside for FEMA should be allocated to the states. We know what states usually need the most diseaster reliefs so we dole it out according to the states usually suffer the most diseasters, ie southeastern coastal states, gulf coast states, midwestern states and California. Each state would be in charge of their own national guard and could ask neighboring states for help if necessary. Again you don't need the federal government. Each state is more than capable of handling natural diseasters and if personal or equipment is needed neighboring states could come in to help.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • blackredyellow
    blackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    I think that the only area that we need federal help from in the event of natural disasters are in infrastructure. In the case of massive flooding, tornadoes, earthquakes etc., most states would probably need some financial assistance in repairing roads, bridges, subways, etc...

    Just curious, was the recent repair of that bridge/interstate in California given federal funding? Either way, it was an incredible time efficient repair job, but was small compared to the massive damage that could be done by a large disaster.

    As far as people getting assistance with rebuilding their homes and emergency supplies, insurance should cover the material belongings (that industry needs looked at in wake of the non-payment in the katrina mess) and private organizations can set up emergency shelters and provide water and supplies faster and more efficient then the federal government ever could. The city, county or state governments should be a part of the response to make sure that people aren't overlooked and to provide national guard troops in necessary, but the federal government can stay in washingon.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • polaris
    polaris Posts: 3,527
    mammasan wrote:
    then the funds that would normally be set aside for FEMA should be allocated to the states. We know what states usually need the most diseaster reliefs so we dole it out according to the states usually suffer the most diseasters, ie southeastern coastal states, gulf coast states, midwestern states and California. Each state would be in charge of their own national guard and could ask neighboring states for help if necessary. Again you don't need the federal government. Each state is more than capable of handling natural diseasters and if personal or equipment is needed neighboring states could come in to help.

    i'm all for that - it is still gov't controlled ... the only thing to consider is that situations like 9/11 involve many agencies from all levels of gov't ... without a central control point - you can turn a chaotic situation into a nightmare ...
  • mammasan
    mammasan Posts: 5,656
    polaris wrote:
    i'm all for that - it is still gov't controlled ... the only thing to consider is that situations like 9/11 involve many agencies from all levels of gov't ... without a central control point - you can turn a chaotic situation into a nightmare ...

    Well 9/11 is a different case. That was not a natural diseaster, but an aggressive attack on our country. In a case like that it is in the ineterst of nation security so an organization like the FBI would spearhead the investigative portion of the operation. NYC own Office of Emergency Management would spearhead rescue, recovery, and clean up.

    The reason I agree with Ron Paul is that the federal government is too slow to act and their is way to much red tape to get through to get funds distributed. With haveing these types of operations run on a more localized level, on the state level for example, the people affected have more control of the government and can mobilize to get better results. We have completely losy control of the federal government and need someone who is willing to reduce it's size and scope. Ever if that means transfering programs that where once run by the federal government down to the state level. We as voters have more control of our state level elected officials. the more localized the government to more control the electrate have and that is what we need. We need to regain control of our government.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul

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