Where is the Democracy in the US?

CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
edited October 2008 in A Moving Train
We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.

Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?

There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.

Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Commy wrote:
    We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.

    Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?

    There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.

    Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.

    you can still vote for whoever you want. only problem with democracy is it lets idiots vote too, and there are a lot more of them than you!
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    MrSmith wrote:
    you can still vote for whoever you want. only problem with democracy is it lets idiots vote too, and there are a lot more of them than you!
    If the only options we have are 2 candidates that support basically the same policies, then we have no choice, we have no democracy.

    Yeah I can vote for Nader, but what is the point? sure I'd like to see the green party (is Nader even green this election?) do well, but there is no representation for that vote. Its a wasted vote, even in uncontested states. A corporate candidate is gonna win, period.

    And that, my friend, is no democracy.


    EDIT: and yeah, 'majority rules' doesn't work in mental institutions.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    There is no democracy because not enough people are involved enough in the issues to do anything more than vote for a candidate that SAYS they share that persons' beliefs. no one is involved because they feel helpless and apathetic, and because there is no popular movement of dissent to cling to...

    We should all stop making political contributions to ANY party, and start contribuiting to PROTEST organizations that support our ideals so that they can try to organize and promote something people will get behind.

    Politicians will always do what is in their best interest, or the best interest of those that fund them. I think we need to turn the fear they use on us back on them....imagine the difference it could make if everyone that opposed the war took to the streets once a month in every city? We need funding for the organizations that plan these events....seems to me they simply don't have the money to get the word out....even being on a bunch of activist mailing lists, I rarely see email invitations to protest, let alone any kind of mainstream promotion...
  • Commy wrote:
    And that, my friend, is no democracy.


    .

    it is, just because you dont like the winner doesnt make it not so.

    but whatever. you wont have a true democracy until they abolish the electoral college. it keeps third parties down. or if things get a lot worse then they are now.
  • imagine the difference it could make if everyone that opposed the war took to the streets once a month in every city? We need funding for the organizations that plan these events....seems to me they simply don't have the money to get the word out....even being on a bunch of activist mailing lists, I rarely see email invitations to protest, let alone any kind of mainstream promotion...
    i doubt that would make much difference, at least to a guy like Bush, who has ignored all the other protests so far just fine. maybe striking would work, but not walking around with a sign.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    MrSmith wrote:
    i doubt that would make much difference, at least to a guy like Bush, who has ignored all the other protests so far just fine. maybe striking would work, but not walking around with a sign.
    its hard to ignore a thousand people in the street, on every street in every city in the US. Even for FOX news.
  • Drowned OutDrowned Out Posts: 6,056
    MrSmith wrote:
    i doubt that would make much difference, at least to a guy like Bush, who has ignored all the other protests so far just fine. maybe striking would work, but not walking around with a sign.

    I dont think the protests that Bush has dealt with are anywhere near the scale that they should be considering what he's gotten away with. If they were more organized and happened with more frequency, more people would be willing to take part and become involved in finding ways to pressure the politicians...
    I think holding a sign is a great first step regardless of the effect....a person feeling like they're doing something to support what they believe in can empower them to look into other ways to pressure their officials....including hitting them where it hurts - with strikes (agreed).
  • I dont think the protests that Bush has dealt with are anywhere near the scale that they should be considering what he's gotten away with. If they were more organized and happened with more frequency, more people would be willing to take part and become involved in finding ways to pressure the politicians...
    I think holding a sign is a great first step regardless of the effect....a person feeling like they're doing something to support what they believe in can empower them to look into other ways to pressure their officials....including hitting them where it hurts - with strikes (agreed).
    eh. i still think its pretty useless up til now. but i do think the anti-war movement should definitely ramp up the protesting if Obama wins. he has run on a vague promise to get out, and many of his supporters think he will. so protesters can put pressure on him to act. they should be out in force on day one.

    but if McCain wins half the country can protest and it wont make a difference, because his support doesnt come from anti-war people.
  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    MrSmith wrote:
    eh. i still think its pretty useless up til now. but i do think the anti-war movement should definitely ramp up the protesting if Obama wins. he has run on a vague promise to get out, and many of his supporters think he will. so protesters can put pressure on him to act. they should be out in force on day one.

    but if McCain wins half the country can protest and it wont make a difference, because his support doesnt come from anti-war people.
    negative. Popular protest is the only way to instigate social change. Martin Luthar King jr could have explained it better than I, but if it weren't for millions of non-violent protestors marching almost daily, nothing would have changed.
  • ccRyderzzccRyderzz Posts: 163
    August 6, 2008

    Peter Rodman, a foreign policy expert who served every
    Republican president from Richard Nixon to George W. Bush, including as an
    assistant secretary of defense for nearly six years in the current
    administration, died Saturday in Baltimore. He was 64.

    The cause was complications of leukemia, said Danielle Pletka,
    vice president of foreign and defense policy studies at the American
    Enterprise Institute.

    Rodman was lured into government by his senior thesis adviser at
    Harvard, Henry Kissinger, then the national security adviser, and he became
    Kissinger's aide in negotiations that included opening ties to China, peace
    talks on Vietnam and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

    MORE >>>
    LETTER FROM YORBA LINDA #66 | July 10, 2008 Touring with
    the White House
    By Tom Borcher

    Tom has been a member of the Nixon Library Docent Guild
    since 2002 and is a practicing attorney in
    Los Angeles with Jacobs, Jacobs & Eisfelder.


    White House history being a "hobby" of mine, one of
    the biggest thrills in my five years as a docent at the Richard Nixon
    Library & Birthplace was when John Zweifel's Miniature White House went on
    display in 2004. ("Miniature" in this case being a model 70 feet by 30
    feet.) I developed a forty-five minute "tour" of the model including the
    history of both the model and the "real" White House." I enjoyed giving the
    presentation to our guests on weekends and holidays. The day came, however,
    when John rolled it into his distinctive semi-truck for other destinations.

    When I learned that the model was to be displayed
    at the George H. W. Bush Library in College Station, Texas, I asked them if
    I could give my presentation there. Based largely on some kind words by
    folks here at the Nixon Library, I was invited to Texas over the Memorial
    Day Weekend in 2007. Continue Reading this Letter >>
    News, Reviews & Commentary
    Peter Rodman, foreign policy expert, dies at 64
    Wednesday, August 6, 2008
    More>>

    Nixon Center, Harvard's Belfer Center announce bi-partisan
    commission on U.S. policy toward Russia
    Friday, August 1, 2008
    Sen. Gary Hart and Sen. Chuck Hagel August 1, 2008 The Belfer
    Center at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and The Nixon
    Center are pleased to announce a new Commission on United States Policy
    toward Russia. The commission will be co-chaired by former Senator Gary Hart
    More>>

    Anne Walker Recovering From Heart Surgery
    Friday, July 11, 2008
    More>>
  • ccRyderzzccRyderzz Posts: 163
    Commy wrote:
    its hard to ignore a thousand people in the street, on every street in every city in the US. Even for FOX news.
    August 6, 2008

    Peter Rodman, a foreign policy expert who served every
    Republican president from Richard Nixon to George W. Bush, including as an
    assistant secretary of defense for nearly six years in the current
    administration, died Saturday in Baltimore. He was 64.

    The cause was complications of leukemia, said Danielle Pletka,
    vice president of foreign and defense policy studies at the American
    Enterprise Institute.

    Rodman was lured into government by his senior thesis adviser at
    Harvard, Henry Kissinger, then the national security adviser, and he became
    Kissinger's aide in negotiations that included opening ties to China, peace
    talks on Vietnam and the Arab-Israeli conflict.

    MORE >>>
    LETTER FROM YORBA LINDA #66 | July 10, 2008 Touring with
    the White House
    By Tom Borcher

    Tom has been a member of the Nixon Library Docent Guild
    since 2002 and is a practicing attorney in
    Los Angeles with Jacobs, Jacobs & Eisfelder.


    White House history being a "hobby" of mine, one of
    the biggest thrills in my five years as a docent at the Richard Nixon
    Library & Birthplace was when John Zweifel's Miniature White House went on
    display in 2004. ("Miniature" in this case being a model 70 feet by 30
    feet.) I developed a forty-five minute "tour" of the model including the
    history of both the model and the "real" White House." I enjoyed giving the
    presentation to our guests on weekends and holidays. The day came, however,
    when John rolled it into his distinctive semi-truck for other destinations.

    When I learned that the model was to be displayed
    at the George H. W. Bush Library in College Station, Texas, I asked them if
    I could give my presentation there. Based largely on some kind words by
    folks here at the Nixon Library, I was invited to Texas over the Memorial
    Day Weekend in 2007.

    Continue Reading this Letter >>
    News, Reviews & Commentary
    Peter Rodman, foreign policy expert, dies at 64
    Wednesday, August 6, 2008
    More>>

    Nixon Center, Harvard's Belfer Center announce bi-partisan
    commission on U.S. policy toward Russia
    Friday, August 1, 2008
    Sen. Gary Hart and Sen. Chuck Hagel August 1, 2008 The Belfer
    Center at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and The Nixon
    Center are pleased to announce a new Commission on United States Policy
    toward Russia. The commission will be co-chaired by former Senator Gary Hart
    More>>

    Anne Walker Recovering From Heart Surgery
    Friday, July 11, 2008
    More>>
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Commy wrote:
    We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.

    Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?

    There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.

    Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.

    I think it's a bad idea for government to ensure that ANYBODY makes a profit.

    The only way to keep tax dollars from going to interests that you don't agree with is to keep tax dollars from going to the government.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • ccRyderzzccRyderzz Posts: 163
    Commy wrote:
    We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.

    Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?

    There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.

    Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.
    All of a sudden, boom, it's a narcotic and it's outlawed by FDA. What
    is the initial response of all these grey-haired fathers of psychiatry
    to making LSD an illegal substance? Protest, it's a bad thing, it's
    robbing us of a powerful psychotherapeutic agent, it's crippling our
    research efforts. These guys were hung out to dry. They were used by
    Intelligence Agencies to gather therapeutic use of LSD, interrogation
    use of LSD, psychotomenitic (sp) use of LSD and then when they had done
    their job, LSD was just cancelled from academia. It was made illegal,
    and then a whole disinformation campaign went along with that whereby
    LSD was transformed from this wonderful therapeutic agent whose use was
    advocated by the major leading figures in psychiatry into this horrible
    thing that made children jump out of windows and bust up their
    chromosomes. It's called a "disinformation campaign". And it caught the
    leaders of psychiatry totally by su rprise, which is hard to believe
    since psychiatrists are such clever political strategists in general.
    What about this whole creating Manchurian Candidate stuff which we see
    now for a fact has been going on since WWII? And according to
    Estabrooks, even back to WWI? We now have established for a proven fact
    that was going on during WWII, and the CIA was working on it in
    Artichoke and Bluebird from 1951-53. The Korean War only started in
    1950. The disinformation was that our boys went overseas there, they
    got shot down, they got captured, the Communist Chinese worked on them
    with these strange techniques we don't understand. The person who coined
    the term "brainwashing" in a book was Edwin Hunter. He's a career CIA
    officer. This was a term coined by the CIA to explain what was happening
    to our boys in North Korea who were making bold statements about germ
    warfare activities they had been involved in. Now it could be that part
    of the Communist brainwashing strategy was to talk to these guys about
    the ethical improprieties of biological warfare and bombing they
    actually had been doing in North Korea. In any rate, they come home as
    Manchurian Candidates. We are all bent out of shape because our boys are
    talking Communism, so we say that we have got to start studying this
    reactively and defensively because of what the Commies are doing. That
    is the disinformation myth that has been adhered to by the Military
    Intelligence community steadfastly from the Korean War to the present.
    It's totally bullshit. It's disinformation. It's not a fact. It's a
    made up story to cover up the fact that actually we had operational
    offensive use of this psychological warfare technology already in place
    in WWII. We have a major disinformation campaign which has basically
    fooled mental health professions and the general public concerning
    brainwashing, concerning LSD. Fortunately those are the only two
    examples in human history. This analysis does not apply to the False
    Memory movement. There is no way it could conceivably be possible, you
    will all agree, that there could be any nervousness in the Intelligence
    Community about Manchurian Candidates spilling out into civilian
    psychotherapies and that a disinformation program based on False
    Memories would be required. It is obviously absurd. Nobody but a CIA
    conspiracy nut would ever suggest that. I guarantee you that that
    thought has never even crossed my mind until it just spontaneously
    appeared at this moment. So you see, actually, in fact, the idea that
    there could be a deliberate disinformation campaign element to the False
    Memory movement is perfectly plausible, consistent with history, and
    could be expected. There is bound to be some sort of disinformation
    strategy if in fact Manchurian Candidates have been leaking out into
    civilian psychotherapy. So here we have, with all of this
    documentation, all of this proof ... we know that it is perfectly
    possible that people we are seeing in therapy who are claiming to be
    victims of systematic military mind control experimentation are telling
    us about what actually happened to them. However, I am not a single
    step further ahead than I was four years ago on actually documenting
    that any single patient in treatment actually in fact was involved in
    these mind control experiments. There is no linkage at all from the
    current patients in treatment to this documentation. So whether we are
    ever going to get that or not, I don't know. (From audience: Mind
    Control and the Military can be found on America On-Line on the internet
    - "On Psych"-and there are websites). Apparently there is a lot of
    information about this on the web and on internet and AOl and elsewhere.
    But the problem is, I don't go to chat rooms very often, but most of it
    is totally banal, and silly and boring and a waste of time. So when you
    go into the stuff on mind control, how much is garbage that you are
    going to get, and how much is solid stuff that you can pursue and
    document are you going to get is my question. I have no idea what the
    answer is. But, as we all know, the truth is out there. (From the
    audience: "how would I go about documenting that a patient I, or
    somebody else, currently has in treatment, in fact was involved in that
    kind of experimentation?") Well, here's how the documentation has gone
    so far. By the way, I have done Freedom of Information Act requests on
    MONARCH at all Intelligence Agencies, and they have all denied it
    exists. The patient apparently has no source of contamination for
    specific MONARCH memories, but has the word Monarch in her mind, and has
    very specific detailed Monarch-type mind control memories. Her father
    basically abused her domestically and ritualistically, and then took her
    over to the mind control people. How she got there, what the transport
    mechanism was .. plane, car, location is all vague because she appears
    to have been all drugged out then transported. Is it possible that her
    father could have been this kind of person? Well, I have his military
    service records which I got through the Freedom of Informatiion Act, I
    have a lette r from him in prison where he is imprisoned for mob crime
    connections, I've got a mother and a sister corroborating the domestic
    incest, the sister with some patchy corroboration of ritualistic and
    mind control memories, I've got the father personally connected to Jack
    Ruby. That's as far as it goes. It's sort of circumstantial and
    intriguing. So the way I would attempt to document it would be if the
    person tells me (most people can't tell you the specific name of the
    doctor) but if somebody gives you a specific name of a doctor, and gives
    you a specific location, and you can establish that this doctor actually
    existed, and you can establish that in fact this doctor was a CIA
    employee, and you can establish that this person's father was imprisoned
    by the FBI as part of a Mafia raid by looking at the journal articles
    that the patient has, then you are starting to get closer and closer. So
    it is your basic investigative reporting type stuff. Name the specific
    base. Okay what do yo u know about the base? How did you get there?
    Tell me about some buildings? Tell me about personnel. Describe the
    uniforms. What was used? And then if you can get another subject who
    was there at the same time ... that's just the way it is. It is your
    basic investigative reporting. Which is way beyond being a therapist.
    There is no therapeutic obligation to do this. This is mega beyond duty
    to take collateral history. So I don't think there is any mystery as to
    how it would proceed. And it will proceed probably in the same way as
    the history of declassified information since WWII. In about, I think
    1988, stuff was released to the Senate and the Congress and then to the
    Press about all these radiation experiments. Nobody did anything. It
    didn't even get into the newspapers. It was in the public domain for
    five years before it finally hits the newspapers. Now we've got this
    government report that is 900 pages long on all the radiation
    experiments, including giving radiation to children and radiation to
    pregnant mothers and the children of those pregnancies dying of leukemia
    by age five. This is huge, big stuff. Everybody was apathetic, didn't
    think it was newsworthy, didn 't even put it as a little trailer item in
    the New York Ti mes. This is no longer vague. We know the specific
    names of people, when they died, whether it was plutonium or whatever
    was injected, the names of the doctors, the names of the medical schools
    where it was done, it's all keyed up for compensation, the government
    has set up a whole compensation mechanism. If we look at the Tuscagee
    Syphilis Study ... it is worse than the creation of Manchurian
    Candidates. It was set up in Tuscagee, Alabama in the 1940's. The
    experiment is-you've got 400 rural, dirt-poor black guys with active
    syphilis and 400 controls. These people are followed without treatment
    into the 1970's. The people who are involved in the Tuscagee Syphilis
    Study (it is a huge long list and I can't remember all the details of
    it) but it includes the County Medical Society, the administration of
    the study was actually taken over by the Centre of Disease Control, the
    Surgeon General, the American Heart Association, all kinds of people
    were witting, knowledgeable and awar e of the study and ap proved its
    ongoing nature well into the 60's and into the 70's, in complete
    violation of all known medical ethics. Well okay, that was kept kind of
    secret. Nobody heard about it except some of these medical bigwigs. No.
    I have a medical paper from the medical school published in 1965 called
    "Untreated Syphilis in a Male Negro - A 20 year follow-up". This stuff
    is published, right in the medical literature. It is looking everybody
    right in the face. What happens when you have 400 illiterate rural
    black guys with active syphilis untreated, for 40 years? Well, the
    outcome of the experiment is, you will be very surprised to hear, they
    don't do too well, they develop a lot of disease, and they die young.
    They do another thing. They breathe air. There is another behaviour
    that we can predict in these guys. They eat food. Going down the list?
    They urinate and defecate. Continuing along with basic human functions,
    they have sexual intercourse with women. Anybody who has been to medical
    school will tell you it is 100% guaranteed that if you take 400 black
    guys with syphil is and do not treat them, the rest of t heir lives, you
    are guaranteed to be creating cases of congenital syphilis. The entire
    medical community knows this as an elementary fact that you learn in
    first year medical school, it is published in the medical literature,
    and it's condoned by all levels of the old boys network in world
    medicine. This is totally unbelievable and completely factual. This
    Manchurian Candidate stuff is like Mickey Mouse Psych stuff. It's not
    even heavy duty. The nurse who was the head of the Tuscagee Syphilis
    study throughout its duration, actually got an award from the Public
    Health Service because of her work on the Tuscagee Syphilis Study. The
    individual guys have gone and testified at the Senate. You can read the
    book, "Bad Blood" and these guys are named as individual human beings.
    Which individual human beings who are victims of military mind control
    research do we already know? Harold Blauer, the tennis pro who was
    killed. Frank Olson who was killed because he jumped through a window
    because he took LSD mixed with Cointro by Sidney Gottlieb
  • ccRyderzzccRyderzz Posts: 163
    Commy wrote:
    We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.

    Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?

    There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.

    Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.
    All of a sudden, boom, it's a narcotic and it's outlawed by FDA. What
    is the initial response of all these grey-haired fathers of psychiatry
    to making LSD an illegal substance? Protest, it's a bad thing, it's
    robbing us of a powerful psychotherapeutic agent, it's crippling our
    research efforts. These guys were hung out to dry. They were used by
    Intelligence Agencies to gather therapeutic use of LSD, interrogation
    use of LSD, psychotomenitic (sp) use of LSD and then when they had done
    their job, LSD was just cancelled from academia. It was made illegal,
    and then a whole disinformation campaign went along with that whereby
    LSD was transformed from this wonderful therapeutic agent whose use was
    advocated by the major leading figures in psychiatry into this horrible
    thing that made children jump out of windows and bust up their
    chromosomes. It's called a "disinformation campaign". And it caught the
    leaders of psychiatry totally by su rprise, which is hard to believe
    since psychiatrists are such clever political strategists in general.
    What about this whole creating Manchurian Candidate stuff which we see
    now for a fact has been going on since WWII? And according to
    Estabrooks, even back to WWI? We now have established for a proven fact
    that was going on during WWII, and the CIA was working on it in
    Artichoke and Bluebird from 1951-53. The Korean War only started in
    1950. The disinformation was that our boys went overseas there, they
    got shot down, they got captured, the Communist Chinese worked on them
    with these strange techniques we don't understand. The person who coined
    the term "brainwashing" in a book was Edwin Hunter. He's a career CIA
    officer. This was a term coined by the CIA to explain what was happening
    to our boys in North Korea who were making bold statements about germ
    warfare activities they had been involved in. Now it could be that part
    of the Communist brainwashing strategy was to talk to these guys about
    the ethical improprieties of biological warfare and bombing they
    actually had been doing in North Korea. In any rate, they come home as
    Manchurian Candidates. We are all bent out of shape because our boys are
    talking Communism, so we say that we have got to start studying this
    reactively and defensively because of what the Commies are doing. That
    is the disinformation myth that has been adhered to by the Military
    Intelligence community steadfastly from the Korean War to the present.
    It's totally bullshit. It's disinformation. It's not a fact. It's a
    made up story to cover up the fact that actually we had operational
    offensive use of this psychological warfare technology already in place
    in WWII. We have a major disinformation campaign which has basically
    fooled mental health professions and the general public concerning
    brainwashing, concerning LSD. Fortunately those are the only two
    examples in human history. This analysis does not apply to the False
    Memory movement. There is no way it could conceivably be possible, you
    will all agree, that there could be any nervousness in the Intelligence
    Community about Manchurian Candidates spilling out into civilian
    psychotherapies and that a disinformation program based on False
    Memories would be required. It is obviously absurd. Nobody but a CIA
    conspiracy nut would ever suggest that. I guarantee you that that
    thought has never even crossed my mind until it just spontaneously
    appeared at this moment. So you see, actually, in fact, the idea that
    there could be a deliberate disinformation campaign element to the False
    Memory movement is perfectly plausible, consistent with history, and
    could be expected. There is bound to be some sort of disinformation
    strategy if in fact Manchurian Candidates have been leaking out into
    civilian psychotherapy. So here we have, with all of this
    documentation, all of this proof ... we know that it is perfectly
    possible that people we are seeing in therapy who are claiming to be
    victims of systematic military mind control experimentation are telling
    us about what actually happened to them. However, I am not a single
    step further ahead than I was four years ago on actually documenting
    that any single patient in treatment actually in fact was involved in
    these mind control experiments. There is no linkage at all from the
    current patients in treatment to this documentation. So whether we are
    ever going to get that or not, I don't know. (From audience: Mind
    Control and the Military can be found on America On-Line on the internet
    - "On Psych"-and there are websites). Apparently there is a lot of
    information about this on the web and on internet and AOl and elsewhere.
    But the problem is, I don't go to chat rooms very often, but most of it
    is totally banal, and silly and boring and a waste of time. So when you
    go into the stuff on mind control, how much is garbage that you are
    going to get, and how much is solid stuff that you can pursue and
    document are you going to get is my question. I have no idea what the
    answer is. But, as we all know, the truth is out there. (From the
    audience: "how would I go about documenting that a patient I, or
    somebody else, currently has in treatment, in fact was involved in that
    kind of experimentation?") Well, here's how the documentation has gone
    so far. By the way, I have done Freedom of Information Act requests on
    MONARCH at all Intelligence Agencies, and they have all denied it
    exists. The patient apparently has no source of contamination for
    specific MONARCH memories, but has the word Monarch in her mind, and has
    very specific detailed Monarch-type mind control memories. Her father
    basically abused her domestically and ritualistically, and then took her
    over to the mind control people. How she got there, what the transport
    mechanism was .. plane, car, location is all vague because she appears
    to have been all drugged out then transported. Is it possible that her
    father could have been this kind of person? Well, I have his military
    service records which I got through the Freedom of Informatiion Act, I
    have a lette r from him in prison where he is imprisoned for mob crime
    connections, I've got a mother and a sister corroborating the domestic
    incest, the sister with some patchy corroboration of ritualistic and
    mind control memories, I've got the father personally connected to Jack
    Ruby. That's as far as it goes. It's sort of circumstantial and
    intriguing. So the way I would attempt to document it would be if the
    person tells me (most people can't tell you the specific name of the
    doctor) but if somebody gives you a specific name of a doctor, and gives
    you a specific location, and you can establish that this doctor actually
    existed, and you can establish that in fact this doctor was a CIA
    employee, and you can establish that this person's father was imprisoned
    by the FBI as part of a Mafia raid by looking at the journal articles
    that the patient has, then you are starting to get closer and closer. So
    it is your basic investigative reporting type stuff. Name the specific
    base. Okay what do yo u know about the base? How did you get there?
    Tell me about some buildings? Tell me about personnel. Describe the
    uniforms. What was used? And then if you can get another subject who
    was there at the same time ... that's just the way it is. It is your
    basic investigative reporting. Which is way beyond being a therapist.
    There is no therapeutic obligation to do this. This is mega beyond duty
    to take collateral history. So I don't think there is any mystery as to
    how it would proceed. And it will proceed probably in the same way as
    the history of declassified information since WWII. In about, I think
    1988, stuff was released to the Senate and the Congress and then to the
    Press about all these radiation experiments. Nobody did anything. It
    didn't even get into the newspapers. It was in the public domain for
    five years before it finally hits the newspapers. Now we've got this
    government report that is 900 pages long on all the radiation
    experiments, including giving radiation to children and radiation to
    pregnant mothers and the children of those pregnancies dying of leukemia
    by age five. This is huge, big stuff. Everybody was apathetic, didn't
    think it was newsworthy, didn 't even put it as a little trailer item in
    the New York Ti mes. This is no longer vague. We know the specific
    names of people, when they died, whether it was plutonium or whatever
    was injected, the names of the doctors, the names of the medical schools
    where it was done, it's all keyed up for compensation, the government
    has set up a whole compensation mechanism. If we look at the Tuscagee
    Syphilis Study ... it is worse than the creation of Manchurian
    Candidates. It was set up in Tuscagee, Alabama in the 1940's. The
    experiment is-you've got 400 rural, dirt-poor black guys with active
    syphilis and 400 controls. These people are followed without treatment
    into the 1970's. The people who are involved in the Tuscagee Syphilis
    Study (it is a huge long list and I can't remember all the details of
    it) but it includes the County Medical Society, the administration of
    the study was actually taken over by the Centre of Disease Control, the
    Surgeon General, the American Heart Association, all kinds of people
    were witting, knowledgeable and awar e of the study and ap proved its
    ongoing nature well into the 60's and into the 70's, in complete
    violation of all known medical ethics. Well okay, that was kept kind of
    secret. Nobody heard about it except some of these medical bigwigs. No.
    I have a medical paper from the medical school published in 1965 called
    "Untreated Syphilis in a Male Negro - A 20 year follow-up". This stuff
    is published, right in the medical literature. It is looking everybody
    right in the face. What happens when you have 400 illiterate rural
    black guys with active syphilis untreated, for 40 years? Well, the
    outcome of the experiment is, you will be very surprised to hear, they
    don't do too well, they develop a lot of disease, and they die young.
    They do another thing. They breathe air. There is another behaviour
    that we can predict in these guys. They eat food. Going down the list?
    They urinate and defecate. Continuing along with basic human functions,
    they have sexual intercourse with women. Anybody who has been to medical
    school will tell you it is 100% guaranteed that if you take 400 black
    guys with syphil is and do not treat them, the rest of t heir lives, you
    are guaranteed to be creating cases of congenital syphilis. The entire
    medical community knows this as an elementary fact that you learn in
    first year medical school, it is published in the medical literature,
    and it's condoned by all levels of the old boys network in world
    medicine. This is totally unbelievable and completely factual. This
    Manchurian Candidate stuff is like Mickey Mouse Psych stuff. It's not
    even heavy duty. The nurse who was the head of the Tuscagee Syphilis
    study throughout its duration, actually got an award from the Public
    Health Service because of her work on the Tuscagee Syphilis Study. The
    individual guys have gone and testified at the Senate. You can read the
    book, "Bad Blood" and these guys are named as individual human beings.
    Which individual human beings who are victims of military mind control
    research do we already know? Harold Blauer, the tennis pro who was
    killed. Frank Olson who was killed because he jumped through a window
    because he took LSD mixed with Cointro by Sidney Gottlieb
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Commy said:

    We have a capitalist party vs. a capitalist party, and both ensure the profit of big business.



    Where is the candidate that stands up for the working class, that ensures WE make a profit, the we have a job even? Where is the candidate that ensures our tax dollars won't be fed to the rich, that ensures we won't be treated like sheep? That guarantees governement won't be there to serve the interests of land owners and managers, but of the working class and the poor?



    There's more of us than there is of them, yet they continue to win. Why is that? Fear keeps us in line, propaganda out of touch. Its gonna change.



    Obama has four years. If nothing changes by his hand, we will make it change.

    He was just sent packing
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    democracy is an illusion
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited March 2016
    I would say the #1 barrier to democracy in North America is definitely the failure of so many people to vote.
    But I also very much prefer a parliamentary democracy as opposed to the USA's constitutional republic. There is more even representation of the citizens in a parliamentary democracy, and is the type of government that better suits a multi-party system, as opposed to the US's two-party one. I think that moving from a two-party system in the US as things are right now could actually be disastrous, just by virtue of the types of candidates that are running on the right these days. The GOP has to pull itself together (or completely tear itself apart and start fresh), and then perhaps something reasonable would work.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • polaris_x said:

    democracy is an illusion

    When you consider that most candidates don't even go through the motions or pretend to respect the electoral process it's hard to even call it an illusion. The refusal of Republicans in the Senate to even consider vetting Obama's Supreme Court nomination speaks to a complete lack of respect for America's political institutions and democracy in general. The biggest laugh is that many people genuinely believe they live in a democratic state.

    Voting in a modern democracy is simply a form of damage control although today the ability to mitigate the damage of elected officials is negligible.

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Posts: 49,954
    edited March 2016

    polaris_x said:

    democracy is an illusion

    When you consider that most candidates don't even go through the motions or pretend to respect the electoral process it's hard to even call it an illusion. The refusal of Republicans in the Senate to even consider vetting Obama's Supreme Court nomination speaks to a complete lack of respect for America's political institutions and democracy in general. The biggest laugh is that many people genuinely believe they live in a democratic state.

    Voting in a modern democracy is simply a form of damage control although today the ability to mitigate the damage of elected officials is negligible.

    I totally agree with you (for the most part... everyone once in a while shit seems to go okay and all the cards fall in the right places, but it's a shocking anomaly when it does).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    US Democracy = circle jerk shit piss contest
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559

    polaris_x said:

    democracy is an illusion

    When you consider that most candidates don't even go through the motions or pretend to respect the electoral process it's hard to even call it an illusion. The refusal of Republicans in the Senate to even consider vetting Obama's Supreme Court nomination speaks to a complete lack of respect for America's political institutions and democracy in general. The biggest laugh is that many people genuinely believe they live in a democratic state.

    Voting in a modern democracy is simply a form of damage control although today the ability to mitigate the damage of elected officials is negligible.

    I find it so sad to read on here about anyone who would support a republican ... that party's only contribution is based on being not a democrat and holding opposite views to Obama ... i really don't know of an entity that is most deserving of extinction ... i say this as someone who wouldn't vote democrat ever if i was voting there too ...

    the democrats are bad but what the republicans are now is just pathetic and the notion that anyone could support this party is a reflection of how fucked up it is in the US ...
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    polaris_x said:

    polaris_x said:

    democracy is an illusion

    When you consider that most candidates don't even go through the motions or pretend to respect the electoral process it's hard to even call it an illusion. The refusal of Republicans in the Senate to even consider vetting Obama's Supreme Court nomination speaks to a complete lack of respect for America's political institutions and democracy in general. The biggest laugh is that many people genuinely believe they live in a democratic state.

    Voting in a modern democracy is simply a form of damage control although today the ability to mitigate the damage of elected officials is negligible.

    I find it so sad to read on here about anyone who would support a republican ... that party's only contribution is based on being not a democrat and holding opposite views to Obama ... i really don't know of an entity that is most deserving of extinction ... i say this as someone who wouldn't vote democrat ever if i was voting there too ...

    the democrats are bad but what the republicans are now is just pathetic and the notion that anyone could support this party is a reflection of how fucked up it is in the US ...
    Most have some weird emotional tie to a party having never met or spoke to the congress person or senator that represents them.
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