Just like I'm not free to come to your house and start calling Obama a nuclear power cock sucker...you can't say whatever you want to in a place of business.
yes, you can. Freedoms a bitch ain't it? Don't worry, they're going away..fast!
I like freedom as much as the next but if you own a property or business, the owners control what is allowed to happen on said property.
not if the "next guy" is George w..
I put these numbnuts in the same catagory as the geniuses who hired Stephen Colbert to MC the press dinner and then got all upset when he rolled all over Bush. Do they not watch his show? Same thing with RR rhodes. they hired/invited her to speak and then were suprised when she said what she basically said what she says everyday on her show.
I think we do agree on one thing
sometimes rights come with consequences, and that's whats so fucking cool about them.
also, not sure if you've heard, but she wasn't unemployed long.
I put these numbnuts in the same catagory as the geniuses who hired Stephen Colbert to MC the press dinner and then got all upset when he rolled all over Bush. Do they not watch his show? Same thing with RR rhodes. they hired/invited her to speak and then were suprised when she said what she basically said what she says everyday on her show.
I think we do agree on one thing
sometimes rights come with consequences, and that's whats so fucking cool about them.
also, not sure if you've heard, but she wasn't unemployed long.
They hired her to speak but that is not all encompassing. It doesn't mean they would let her say whatever she pleased. You know this. It isn't a freedom of speech issue, as far as the constitution meaning goes, anyway. Perhaps they expected a higher standard of class and intellect from their employees...who knows? It was their call not mine.
You agree with her on Hilary so you're supporting Randi with this. I don't care what she says about Hilary, though she absolutely disgusts me when she rails on Nader....so it doesn't bother me to see her take this hit, I can be honest about it. Most of you crying about her freedom of speech being abused probably thought Imus deserved to be canned. It bugs me when it's only the people we agree with who deserve the right to say whatever they please. I'm trying to be objective. If I wanted the public to rely on my radio show for a quality program with high standards that I could be proud to run...I would not put up with my employees resorting to petty insults and name calling to make their points.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
so i could be as obnoxious as i want in a restaurant and let's say i'm yelling out racial slurs or calling my waitress a cunt...are you saying it's unconstitutional for them to ask me to leave?
or let's say i'm a waiter and i'm hired b/c the restaurant owner hired me b/c he thought i was funny...what if i told a racially motivated joke and another table heard me...you're saying it's unconstitutional for them to fire me over it?
or let's say i'm a waiter and in the kkk...would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me if i told my tables kkk talking points? what if i yelled hitler was right? would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me?
of course not!
standin above the crowd
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
so it doesn't bother me to see her take this hit, I can be honest about it. Most of you crying about her freedom of speech being abused probably thought Imus deserved to be canned.
No he didn't. Same issue. They say more hateful things on Faux News.
Overview of Law
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution establishes freedom of speech in the USA. There are several major limitations on this freedom:
1. Only the government is prohibited from restricting speech. Private corporations are free to censor speech of their employees.
2. Freedom of speech is not absolute, even when government regulation or law is concerned. For example, freedom of speech does not give one the right to commit perjury. See the beginning of my essay on infotorts for more examples.
3. Since 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court has retreated from protecting freedom of speech even for government employees, as explained in my separate essay.
Fundamentally, an at-will employee in the USA can be terminated at any time, and for any reason – or no reason at all – and the courts will not intervene to protect the ex-employee from allegedly unfair treatment by the employer. Courts have repeatedly recognized that "any reason" includes a "morally wrong" or "morally reprehensible" reason. I have briefly discussed the history of at-will employment in the USA and criticism of this doctrine in a separate essay.
The combination of:
1. no legal protection for freedom of speech of employees of for-profit and non-profit corporations and other non-governmental employers, and
2. the freedom of employers to terminate employment at any time, for any reason
means that employees in private industry have no legal rights to freedom of speech.
so i could be as obnoxious as i want in a restaurant and let's say i'm yelling out racial slurs or calling my waitress a cunt...are you saying it's unconstitutional for them to ask me to leave?
or let's say i'm a waiter and i'm hired b/c the restaurant owner hired me b/c he thought i was funny...what if i told a racially motivated joke and another table heard me...you're saying it's unconstitutional for them to fire me over it?
that's for a (hopefully not Bush appointed) judge to decide really, but basically no
or let's say i'm a waiter and in the kkk...would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me if i told my tables kkk talking points? what if i yelled hitler was right? would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me?
no, but it's your right to say so even if you are putting your job on the line. Of course if when they hire you they know you are in the kkk why would they be suprised?
that's for a (hopefully not Bush appointed) judge to decide really, but basically no
no, but it's your right to say so even if you are putting your job on the line. Of course if when they hire you they know you are in the kkk why would they be suprised?
I've never said otherwise. I have said over and over again that rights can come at a cost. nobody's relly addressed that.
holy shit, I must really be out of line now because the liberals on the board are attacking me.
No one is attacking you. It's pretty much common knowledge that the first amendment doesn't cover private property or business. The owner has the final say on what is allowed to be said on their property. I posted you a link.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
It's pretty much common knowledge that the first amendment doesn't cover private property or business. The owner has the final say on what is allowed to be said on their property.
as it should be.
I suppose I just should have said that I am GRAVLEY dissapointed in Air America radio. My view of them is they welcome all opinions praise or criticism, passive or harsh.
I will now exercise my right as a consumer and consider not listening and boycott the few sponsors they do have.
apparently my money speaks louder than free speech
I agree somewhat with that. I'm only arguing what the constitution covers under the first amendment in reality.
we can't have any limits on what we say. The second they decide what is acceptable is about the same time we lose our ability to question authority. This is a very important issue, and we need to defend the guy's right to say the holocaust never existed as much as we defend the Bush critics.
we can't have any limits on what we say. The second they decide what is acceptable is about the same time we lose our ability to question authority. This is a very important issue, and we need to defend the guy's right to say the holocaust never existed as much as we defend the Bush critics.
Yes, I agree. What are your views on private property/businesses and the right to free speech by patrons/employess? What do you think about Randi Rhodes in this situation? Do you think she, as an employee representing Air America, should be allowed to say whatever she wants to even when the business owners might not wish to have their company represented in such a way? What if you were running a radio station and you wanted your station to be respected and to hold high standards, then an employee went on the air saying things that made your station look badly and caused people to stop tuning in because this person was vulgar, loud and didn't express the type of standard they thought they could count on from your radio station? Would you keep this person on anyways, even if it ruined your business and you disagreed with what they were saying in the first place?
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
...What if you were running a radio station and you wanted your station to be respected and to hold high standards, then an employee went on the air saying things that made your station look badly and caused people to stop tuning in because this person was vulgar, loud and didn't express the type of standard they thought they could count on from your radio station? Would you keep this person on anyways, even if it ruined your business and you disagreed with what they were saying in the first place?
A couple points about what you said. First, the analogy of an employee saying something on air doesn't apply because RR didn't say what she said on the radio. Second, from a biz perspective it's already killing AirAmerica that she left them. Now that she's on NovaM radio, she is taking away the afternoon slots from air america. I loved air america when it first was on the air but it has slowly lost its way. I thought that Morning Sedition was great (better than what Stephanie Miller does today, but I do like Steph Miller). Then they fire Mike Maloy and now RR has left because they were trying to get her to sign a bad contract. I like Sam Seder (though he still needs some work), but they don't have him on enough except as a utility fill in guy. Tom Hartman is great (better that Al Franken without the co-host) and Rachel Madow is also enjoyable, but the station is dying a slow death. I think liberal radio is fine, but Air America isn't. At least they did help jump start a trend of liberal radio talk show stations that are able to combat the tremendous amount of conservative stations.
"Underneath this smile lies everything - all my hopes, anger, pride and shame."
A couple points about what you said. First, the analogy of an employee saying something on air doesn't apply because RR didn't say what she said on the radio. Second, from a biz perspective it's already killing AirAmerica that she left them. Now that she's on NovaM radio, she is taking away the afternoon slots from air america. I loved air america when it first was on the air but it has slowly lost its way. I thought that Morning Sedition was great (better than what Stephanie Miller does today, but I do like Steph Miller). Then they fire Mike Maloy and now RR has left because they were trying to get her to sign a bad contract. I like Sam Seder (though he still needs some work), but they don't have him on enough except as a utility fill in guy. Tom Hartman is great (better that Al Franken without the co-host) and Rachel Madow is also enjoyable, but the station is dying a slow death. I think liberal radio is fine, but Air America isn't. At least they did help jump start a trend of liberal radio talk show stations that are able to combat the tremendous amount of conservative stations.
The person who told me about this story told it like she was on air so I have been discussing this from that angle. It does make a difference if she's not at work, imo. However, it is worth discussing...which is more important? Her right to free speech outside the work place or the companies right to take action if they feel her public persona is affecting their company? Now I, personally, think she should be allowed to say whatever she pleases off air. But does the company have a right to suspend and fire someone when they disgree with what has been said and in this case in a very public way.
If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
The person who told me about this story told it like she was on air so I have been discussing this from that angle. It does make a difference if she's not at work, imo. However, it is worth discussing...which is more important? Her right to free speech outside the work place or the companies right to take action if they feel her public persona is affecting their company? Now I, personally, think she should be allowed to say whatever she pleases off air. But does the company have a right to suspend and fire someone when they disgree with what has been said and in this case in a very public way.
yes, but it's a little like McDonalds firing employees for making Hamburgers. That's what they were hired to do. They just didn't like the way they were making them.
Air America now looks like just another facsist corporation and not a place for opinion or free thought.
Comments
yes, you can. Freedoms a bitch ain't it? Don't worry, they're going away..fast!
I like freedom as much as the next but if you own a property or business, the owners control what is allowed to happen on said property.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
not if the "next guy" is George w..
I put these numbnuts in the same catagory as the geniuses who hired Stephen Colbert to MC the press dinner and then got all upset when he rolled all over Bush. Do they not watch his show? Same thing with RR rhodes. they hired/invited her to speak and then were suprised when she said what she basically said what she says everyday on her show.
I think we do agree on one thing
sometimes rights come with consequences, and that's whats so fucking cool about them.
also, not sure if you've heard, but she wasn't unemployed long.
http://www.novamradio.com/
you go girl!
They hired her to speak but that is not all encompassing. It doesn't mean they would let her say whatever she pleased. You know this. It isn't a freedom of speech issue, as far as the constitution meaning goes, anyway. Perhaps they expected a higher standard of class and intellect from their employees...who knows? It was their call not mine.
You agree with her on Hilary so you're supporting Randi with this. I don't care what she says about Hilary, though she absolutely disgusts me when she rails on Nader....so it doesn't bother me to see her take this hit, I can be honest about it. Most of you crying about her freedom of speech being abused probably thought Imus deserved to be canned. It bugs me when it's only the people we agree with who deserve the right to say whatever they please. I'm trying to be objective. If I wanted the public to rely on my radio show for a quality program with high standards that I could be proud to run...I would not put up with my employees resorting to petty insults and name calling to make their points.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
so i could be as obnoxious as i want in a restaurant and let's say i'm yelling out racial slurs or calling my waitress a cunt...are you saying it's unconstitutional for them to ask me to leave?
or let's say i'm a waiter and i'm hired b/c the restaurant owner hired me b/c he thought i was funny...what if i told a racially motivated joke and another table heard me...you're saying it's unconstitutional for them to fire me over it?
or let's say i'm a waiter and in the kkk...would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me if i told my tables kkk talking points? what if i yelled hitler was right? would it be unconstitutional for them to fire me?
of course not!
he had a voice that was strong and loud and
i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
eager to identify with
someone above the crowd
someone who seemed to feel the same
someone prepared to lead the way
How do you know. Please post a link to her contract.
do I?
yes, it is.
exactly, so you can't really say with authority. You can only pretend to do so.
Even though he is an arrogant dick.
No he didn't. Same issue. They say more hateful things on Faux News.
you are not succeding.
I know because they suspended her. I figured that was a pretty good tip off that they didn't like what she said.
You should.
http://www.rbs2.com/freespch.htm
Overview of Law
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution establishes freedom of speech in the USA. There are several major limitations on this freedom:
1. Only the government is prohibited from restricting speech. Private corporations are free to censor speech of their employees.
2. Freedom of speech is not absolute, even when government regulation or law is concerned. For example, freedom of speech does not give one the right to commit perjury. See the beginning of my essay on infotorts for more examples.
3. Since 1977, the U.S. Supreme Court has retreated from protecting freedom of speech even for government employees, as explained in my separate essay.
Fundamentally, an at-will employee in the USA can be terminated at any time, and for any reason – or no reason at all – and the courts will not intervene to protect the ex-employee from allegedly unfair treatment by the employer. Courts have repeatedly recognized that "any reason" includes a "morally wrong" or "morally reprehensible" reason. I have briefly discussed the history of at-will employment in the USA and criticism of this doctrine in a separate essay.
The combination of:
1. no legal protection for freedom of speech of employees of for-profit and non-profit corporations and other non-governmental employers, and
2. the freedom of employers to terminate employment at any time, for any reason
means that employees in private industry have no legal rights to freedom of speech.
see above
Well again, it doesn't take a nobel prize winner to figure they had problems with what she said based on their reaction to it.
:rolleyes:
How so?
And Faux news apparently has no problems with what's being said on their programs based on their inaction of doing anything about it.
And how am I not being objective here?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
no. but it would be your right to say so.
that's for a (hopefully not Bush appointed) judge to decide really, but basically no
no, but it's your right to say so even if you are putting your job on the line. Of course if when they hire you they know you are in the kkk why would they be suprised?
I've never said otherwise. I have said over and over again that rights can come at a cost. nobody's relly addressed that.
holy shit, I must really be out of line now because the liberals on the board are attacking me.
No one is attacking you. It's pretty much common knowledge that the first amendment doesn't cover private property or business. The owner has the final say on what is allowed to be said on their property. I posted you a link.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
as it should be.
I suppose I just should have said that I am GRAVLEY dissapointed in Air America radio. My view of them is they welcome all opinions praise or criticism, passive or harsh.
I will now exercise my right as a consumer and consider not listening and boycott the few sponsors they do have.
apparently my money speaks louder than free speech
I agree somewhat with that. I'm only arguing what the constitution covers under the first amendment in reality.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
Yes, I agree. What are your views on private property/businesses and the right to free speech by patrons/employess? What do you think about Randi Rhodes in this situation? Do you think she, as an employee representing Air America, should be allowed to say whatever she wants to even when the business owners might not wish to have their company represented in such a way? What if you were running a radio station and you wanted your station to be respected and to hold high standards, then an employee went on the air saying things that made your station look badly and caused people to stop tuning in because this person was vulgar, loud and didn't express the type of standard they thought they could count on from your radio station? Would you keep this person on anyways, even if it ruined your business and you disagreed with what they were saying in the first place?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
A couple points about what you said. First, the analogy of an employee saying something on air doesn't apply because RR didn't say what she said on the radio. Second, from a biz perspective it's already killing AirAmerica that she left them. Now that she's on NovaM radio, she is taking away the afternoon slots from air america. I loved air america when it first was on the air but it has slowly lost its way. I thought that Morning Sedition was great (better than what Stephanie Miller does today, but I do like Steph Miller). Then they fire Mike Maloy and now RR has left because they were trying to get her to sign a bad contract. I like Sam Seder (though he still needs some work), but they don't have him on enough except as a utility fill in guy. Tom Hartman is great (better that Al Franken without the co-host) and Rachel Madow is also enjoyable, but the station is dying a slow death. I think liberal radio is fine, but Air America isn't. At least they did help jump start a trend of liberal radio talk show stations that are able to combat the tremendous amount of conservative stations.
The person who told me about this story told it like she was on air so I have been discussing this from that angle. It does make a difference if she's not at work, imo. However, it is worth discussing...which is more important? Her right to free speech outside the work place or the companies right to take action if they feel her public persona is affecting their company? Now I, personally, think she should be allowed to say whatever she pleases off air. But does the company have a right to suspend and fire someone when they disgree with what has been said and in this case in a very public way.
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
yes, but it's a little like McDonalds firing employees for making Hamburgers. That's what they were hired to do. They just didn't like the way they were making them.
Air America now looks like just another facsist corporation and not a place for opinion or free thought.
BIG mistake.