Is Nader Delusional or Obama Illusional?

13

Comments

  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Brain of J Ament wrote:
    If you decide that it's your "RIGHT" to vote, then you need to realize you have a RESPONSIBILITY to educate yourself on the candidates.
    More choices is not an issue... that would just mean an ounce of effort on the part of the American people towards educating themselves on the candidates (instead of passively and lazily accepting the media bullshit on TV).

    i do. The problem is the vast majority of Americans don't do that NOW. Its easy to take the attitude that if someone doesn't want to educate themselves and take the time and energy to be an informed voter than thats THEIR problem. But it isn't. Its MY problem too. An uneducated, uninformed electorate got us 8 years of Bush, and therefore THEIR problem is MY problem as well.
    Besides, the point you make is in reference to what was only a small aside to my original comments. Its not really the "beef" of my argument. You still have to address the fact that more candidates only really equals more people pandering to you and you still have to address the very real problem of electing a president that 75% percent of the population voted AGAINST!
    i'm not arguing in favor of the, basic, very entrenched, two party system we have. i'm simply saying that the alternatives people speak of may not necessarily make things any better.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Rats of Multa
    Rats of Multa Posts: 250
    cornnifer wrote:
    i do. The problem is the vast majority of Americans don't do that NOW. Its easy to take the attitude that if someone doesn't want to educate themselves and take the time and energy to be an informed voter than thats THEIR problem. But it isn't. Its MY problem too. An uneducated, uninformed electorate got us 8 years of Bush, and therefore THEIR problem is MY problem as well.
    Besides, the point you make is in reference to what was only a small aside to my original comments. Its not really the "beef" of my argument. You still have to address the fact that more candidates only really equals more people pandering to you and you still have to address the very real problem of electing a president that 75% percent of the population voted AGAINST!
    i'm not arguing in favor of the, basic, very entrenched, two party system we have. i'm simply saying that the alternatives people speak of may not necessarily make things any better.

    and what alternatives do you feel might make things better?
    we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
    to dust i guess,
    forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
  • cornnifer
    cornnifer Posts: 2,130
    Rats of Multa wrote:
    and what alternatives do you feel might make things better?

    i don't know. i've already stated that i won't pretend to have a solution. i just don't think virtually unlimited selection is the answer.
    "When all your friends and sedatives mean well but make it worse... better find yourself a place to level out."
  • Rats of Multa
    Rats of Multa Posts: 250
    this thread reminds me of an EV quote...

    "Fuck the pessimists."

    im voting Silly Party all the way till the cows come home..!
    we don’t know just where our bones will rest,
    to dust i guess,
    forgotten and absorbed into the earth below,..
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    once again:

    nader attacks on obama - countless
    nader attacks on mccain - 0

    nader does realize he is running against both obama AND mccain, right?
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Nader is polling 6%

    People are paying attention to what he is saying. Just because you're not seeing him all over the mainstream media, doesn't mean he isn't getting his message out. In fact, people using mainstream media as a source for reliable news is on a steady decline and rightfully so.

    that's what he was polling back in 2000 as well. i know because i voted for him and i thought we were going to get the 5% he needed, but he won't this time around either.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sweet adeline wrote:
    once again:

    nader attacks on obama - countless
    nader attacks on mccain - 0

    nader does realize he is running against both obama AND mccain, right?


    He has said plenty on McCain but not as much as why should he? It's the people who believe Obama will do the same kinda things Nader is addressing that he needs to focus on. McCain voters know what they are getting.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sweet adeline wrote:
    that's what he was polling back in 2000 as well. i know because i voted for him and i thought we were going to get the 5% he needed, but he won't this time around either.


    And your crystal ball is extra sparkly today?
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    And your crystal ball is extra sparkly today?

    care to make it interesting?
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    He has said plenty on McCain but not as much as why should he? It's the people who believe Obama will do the same kinda things Nader is addressing that he needs to focus on. McCain voters know what they are getting.

    links please.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sweet adeline wrote:
    care to make it interesting?

    No, not really. I have no way of knowing either way and don't pretend to.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sweet adeline wrote:
    links please.

    Nah, you can google or go to his site.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • sweet adeline
    sweet adeline Posts: 2,191
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Nah, you can google or go to his site.

    see, that is my point. i did both of those things and i couldn't find anything. i understand your points Abook, i just don't see naders logic for only going after obama.

    i'd feel a little better about naders intentions if, when i googled "nader attacks mccain" i didn't get a page full of nader attacks on obama. or if when i visited http://www.votenader.org there was anything that could be construed as a negative campaign or comment on mccain.
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    sweet adeline wrote:
    see, that is my point. i did both of those things and i couldn't find anything. i understand your points Abook, i just don't see naders logic for only going after obama.

    i'd feel a little better about naders intentions if, when i googled "nader attacks mccain" i didn't get a page full of nader attacks on obama. or if when i visited http://www.votenader.org there was anything that could be construed as a negative campaign or comment on mccain.

    I did alot of reading on why Nader is so mad at the Democrats and he seems to be upset that they dont take him seriously anymore. In the 70's and 80's he was the toast of Washington for meetings and conferences with Democrats on a wide range of issues. It started to diminish in the 90's and after the 2000 election the door was shut on him. I read in one article how pissed he was that no one would take his calls or call him back (Democrats in Washington). He was trying to testify during the Condi Rice confirmation and not one Democrat would sponsor his testimony or call him back (like he was a foreign policy expert or something, right?). I think he has a large chip on his shoulder that the Dems dont take him seriously anymore and sometimes go out of their way to exclude him. Nader is a man scorned.
  • rebornFixer
    rebornFixer Posts: 4,901
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Nader delusional.

    "I'm an old white dude who likes to bitch about the white establishment." Where's fanch when you need him?
    :)
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    flywallyfly wrote:
    I did alot of reading on why Nader is so mad at the Democrats and he seems to be upset that they dont take him seriously anymore. In the 70's and 80's he was the toast of Washington for meetings and conferences with Democrats on a wide range of issues. It started to diminish in the 90's and after the 2000 election the door was shut on him. I read in one article how pissed he was that no one would take his calls or call him back (Democrats in Washington). He was trying to testify during the Condi Rice confirmation and not one Democrat would sponsor his testimony or call him back (like he was a foreign policy expert or something, right?). I think he has a large chip on his shoulder that the Dems dont take him seriously anymore and sometimes go out of their way to exclude him. Nader is a man scorned.

    Couldn't have anything to do with how the Democrat party has continued to become less about the needs of the people and increasingly more about special interests and pandering. And that they have people fooled into believing they are actually an opposition party...nah, couldn't be that.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    sweet adeline wrote:
    see, that is my point. i did both of those things and i couldn't find anything. i understand your points Abook, i just don't see naders logic for only going after obama.

    i'd feel a little better about naders intentions if, when i googled "nader attacks mccain" i didn't get a page full of nader attacks on obama. or if when i visited http://www.votenader.org there was anything that could be construed as a negative campaign or comment on mccain.


    Do you honestly think most McCain voters will change their minds and vote Nader? Why waste limited resources focusing on someone who almost everyone that would give Nader an honest listen already knows what a complete joke McCain is....I know that's why I don't bother with posts about McCain. I don't prefer to waste time preaching to the choir.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • flywallyfly
    flywallyfly Posts: 1,453
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Couldn't have anything to do with how the Democrat party has continued to become less about the needs of the people and increasingly more about special interests and pandering. And that they have people fooled into believing they are actually an opposition party...nah, couldn't be that.

    Actually many people that have worked with him say he is mad at being shutout, etc... I know, doesnt change your view, he is a good man, blah blah.... but doesnt make it less relevant to those who arent fixated on King Ralph.
  • Abookamongstthemany
    Abookamongstthemany Posts: 8,209
    flywallyfly wrote:
    Actually many people that have worked with him say he is mad at being shutout, etc... I know, doesnt change your view, he is a good man, blah blah.... but doesnt make it less relevant to those who arent fixated on King Ralph.

    He should be mad at being shut out. He is trying to address huge issues that are continuously ignored my our corrupted gov't. I would be mad, too. Our gov't has been bought and sold and no longer even pretend to care.
    If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.

    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
    -Oscar Wilde
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,895
    Abookamongstthemany wrote:
    Do you honestly think most McCain voters will change their minds and vote Nader? Why waste limited resources focusing on someone who almost everyone that would give Nader an honest listen already knows what a complete joke McCain is....I know that's why I don't bother with posts about McCain. I don't prefer to waste time preaching to the choir.


    This is a good point, makes sense as to why he'd go after Obama and not McCain.
    hippiemom = goodness

Categories